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Old 05-02-2013, 21:16   #76
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Did he have a doe permit too?
in flagrante delicto

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Old 05-03-2013, 00:47   #77
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I am fairly certain there was more than one shooter...

The bigger concern for me is why he was killed. If you listen to his last speech, (a portion of which can be heard by clicking the link below) he is telling the american people something that most were not willing to hear, and less willing to understand.

I think he took on the money launderers of the Federal reserve bank, and that is why they killed him. He was going to take us back to a currency that had it's value based in hard assets, and they couldn't allow that.

One of the first things that LBJ did after he was sworn in was to, by executive order, strike down what JFK had begun with the american currency. Wonder who he was working for??

JFK's Speech about Secret Societies - YouTube
I used to literally hate lbj, the individual, until I was able to finally study out all the things he did and tried to do. I now completely understand he was a corrupt, puppet politician from the get go and only hate what he stood for.

Hey, was lbj a mason too?
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:17   #78
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NO WAY!! No magic Bullet killed these guys... I've watched the infomercial many tines and I don't see how a Magic Bullet could have been the cause.The Okie Corral
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:37   #79
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The Okie Corral
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:49   #80
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The Okie Corral
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:22   #81
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I can't refute the multiple shooter conspiracy theories, but it has always amazed me at the great lengths they attempt to discount a Marine with shooting experience who recently sighted in a scope at a range.

First time I looked out of the window next to the one the Oswald shot from at the School Book Depository Museum, I was amazed at how close and easy the shot would have been to take by anyone with even average shooting experience let alone a Marine with a Marksman qual/ribbon/cert (whatever you guys call it).

BBBBuuuuuuuuuut,........................the majic bullet found on the gurney could have been a test run for a conspiracy to plant B757 landing gear parts in the wreckage of the Pentagon 39 years later on 9/11 after a secret missile strike (according to some delusional fools here on Glocktalk )
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:29   #82
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Posted without prejudice. Here's the culprit.

The Okie Corral
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:50   #83
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Posted without prejudice. Here's the culprit.

The Okie Corral
I can tell from here that the striations on that bullet means the barrel had too much twist. No way was that fired without immediately going into a bucket of water or ballistic gel. After about 15', it would have burst into fragments from the centrifugal forces.

That, and unlike me, it isn't wrapped in tinfoil.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:17   #84
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The Okie Corral

Odd how infrequently people are shown the side profile of that "pristine" bullet.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:49   #85
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Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
The Okie Corral

Odd how infrequently people are shown the side profile of that "pristine" bullet.
I would have shown it if I had found it. I did a reverse Google photo search on your photo and found this article (again I have no reason to doubt the findings of the Warren Commission).

http://www.history-matters.com/essay...oreMagical.htm
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:23   #86
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Gary Aguilar and Josiah Thompson, Jim Fetzer, Mark Lane, . . . Masters of obfuscation, one and all. The level this conspiracy would have had to have gone to and been maintained for fifty years is mind-boggling. This is the same government we don't even trust to get our mail to us on time.

I'll just keep repeating, believe what you will. I'm not out to convince anybody of anything, but do occasionally like to point out the obvious.

The day after JFK's assassination, before anybody knew anything, 52% of the US thought there was a conspiracy according to a Gallup poll. Today it's around 75-80%. http://www.gallup.com/poll/1813/most...-kill-jfk.aspx

A few months back I just started asking people if they thought it was a conspiracy or not and probably 4 out of 5 thought it was, though hardly anybody could tell me why they thought that. The above noted "experts" have done history a great disservice IMO. America loves a conspiracy.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:57   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
The Okie Corral

Odd how infrequently people are shown the side profile of that "pristine" bullet.
Pristine? of course not.

I think most would assume that a bullet that created all those wounds would be way more damaged than that however.

I don't have a real issue with the single bullet making all those wounds (but I don't believe that it did).. it's certainly possible. I believe there were at least 2 shooters out there, thus.. a conspiracy.

Now, just to clear up, when I say "conspiracy".. I'm not talking about the CIA, LBJ, etc.. I think this was probably something pulled off by 1 or 2 high level govt folks, and possibly organized crime. It's possible Oswald pulled this off by himself.. I just don't think that he did.
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:03   #88
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Pristine? of course not.

I think most would assume that a bullet that created all those wounds would be way more damaged than that however.

I don't have a real issue with the single bullet making all those wounds (but I don't believe that it did).. it's certainly possible. I believe there were at least 2 shooters out there, thus.. a conspiracy.

Now, just to clear up, when I say "conspiracy".. I'm not talking about the CIA, LBJ, etc.. I think this was probably something pulled off by 1 or 2 high level govt folks, and possibly organized crime. It's possible Oswald pulled this off by himself.. I just don't think that he did.
Honestly that bullet was a major sticking point for me for a long time. Having fired lots of 'em target shooting and hunting like most here, it just didn't make sense to me that it could have looked so good. I used the term "pristine" in a mocking fashion as many call it that showing only a choice view of a seemingly undamaged bullet.

Several months ago after watching Oliver Stone's "JFK" for the umpteenth time (talk about a masterfully crafted piece of deception) I decided to review what we really know about this. That 6.5mm MC bullet has a very high SD, passed through JFK's neck through soft tissue only, glanced off Connally's rib, then hit has wrist while tumbling before barely entering his left thigh. At least a couple of people have recreated this with similar end result looking bullets. Exactly the same? No, but being shooters I would think everybody here would understand the immense variables present between any given shots. To think that somebody "planted" a bullet fifty years ago that others could essentially recreate later flies in the face of reason.

Can anyone know for sure there was no conspiracy? Honestly, no. Yet there remains a multitude of frankly conflicting conspiracy theories and no credible evidence to support one. Yet we have a multitude of evidence that points to LHO acting alone. The fact that the DPD, FBI, SS and others all had their Keystone Kops moments in all this just proves to me they're human too and makes it that much more difficult for me to believe that a conspiracy could have been kept secret for this long. Others look at those discrepancies as evidence of their pet conspiracy theory. There were just too many people from too many departments plus the other witnesses, film, etc. to keep this a secret. The discrepancies are what is seen in any major investigation. Eye witnesses are the worst evidence and only get worse as time passes. My take anyway.
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Old 05-03-2013, 14:35   #89
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The House Select Committee on Assassinations- it was formed in '76, in part, to investigate the JFK Assassination. They concluded that Kennedy was likely killed as a result of a conspiracy. I guess this conspiracy stuff is like crack to these federal government committees! Maybe they just couldn't handle the "reality of a lone nut"?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...Assassinations

Remember! Whenever someone important is assassinated (you know, like the leader of the free world) any individual or group that stood to gain from their death likely had NOTHING to do with it. The culprit is always the lone nut job, whose motives are unclear, and who stands to gain nothing.
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Old 05-03-2013, 14:40   #90
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The House Select Committee on Assassinations- it was formed in '76, in part, to investigate the JFK Assassination. They concluded that Kennedy was likely killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Based solely on the now widely discredited evidence of the "fourth shot". As much as Blakey himself wanted to and still does believe there was a conspiracy, he conceded that with that evidence invalid, there was no evidence of conspiracy. Of course you knew that since it was on the bottom of the page you linked.
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Old 05-03-2013, 14:57   #91
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So I was bored, and was watching "JFK" (a movie I've always enjoyed)...

While I don't agree w/ everything in the movie, and I don't even think they portrayed the "magic bullet" accurately. I still think the "single bullet" theory is absolutely ridiculous and there was more than 1 shooter out there (thus, a conspiracy)

Thoughts?

IGF
The movie JFK is overwhelmingly fictitious.

Oswald did it, and he did it alone.. People have a hard time believing this because they cant believe that a 24 year old nobody could possibly kill someone so renowned.
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Old 05-03-2013, 15:12   #92
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Based solely on the now widely discredited evidence of the "fourth shot". As much as Blakey himself wanted to and still does believe there was a conspiracy, he conceded that with that evidence invalid, there was no evidence of conspiracy. Of course you knew that since it was on the bottom of the page you linked.
Have you read all of this stuff on the HSCA?

There is more there by Blakey...

"In 2003, Robert Blakey, staff director and chief counsel for the Committee, issued a statement on the CIA:"


Quote:
...I no longer believe that we were able to conduct an appropriate investigation of the [Central Intelligence] Agency and its relationship to Oswald.... We now know that the Agency withheld from the Warren Commission the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro. Had the commission known of the plots, it would have followed a different path in its investigation. The Agency unilaterally deprived the commission of a chance to obtain the full truth, which will now never be known. Significantly, the Warren Commission's conclusion that the agencies of the government co-operated with it is, in retrospect, not the truth. We also now know that the Agency set up a process that could only have been designed to frustrate the ability of the committee in 1976-79 to obtain any information that might adversely affect the Agency. Many have told me that the culture of the Agency is one of prevarication and dissimulation and that you cannot trust it or its people. Period. End of story. I am now in that camp
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Old 05-03-2013, 15:47   #93
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Have you read all of this stuff on the HSCA?

There is more there by Blakey...

"In 2003, Robert Blakey, staff director and chief counsel for the Committee, issued a statement on the CIA:"
I have. I have also heard Blakey tell of when he went to speak to Castro himself and asked him point blank if the Cubans were involved in JFK's death. Castro made the obvious point that that would have been the stupidest thing he ever could have done. He's spent a half-century trying to prevent the US from invading Cuba, why would he give the perfect pretext for doing so? Blakey has never deviated to my knowledge from the belief that there was some kind of conspiracy involved. He however still states to the best of my knowledge that he has no credible proof of one.

There were lot's of screw ups and mistakes in the handling of this from the get go and unfortunately that and other factors have all led to a continued belief there is still a "smoking gun" hidden somewhere. If it weren't such a somber event it would be laughable at what a comedy of errors the whole investigation and presentation to the public were right out of the gate.
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Old 05-03-2013, 18:13   #94
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I'm about halfway through Stephen Hunter's new book; "The Third Bullet". Sadly, Hunter has slipped about as much as the aging Bob Lee Swagger. Bob can still shoot better from a walker than most men who can move freely. Anyhow, the book is about the assassination. ***SPOILER ALERT***. The money point is that there was a second shooter who used a Remington .264 magnum rifle. He took the 6.5 M/C bullet, drilled it out from the base and removed the tip, leaving a flat nose profile. The round was fired from the Remington at about 3000 fps, causing disintegration on contact. The book is far less interesting than earlier Bob Lee stories, but is germane to the thread, at least one man's fictional take. Hunter explains the motivation of the fictional conspirators as well.
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Old 05-03-2013, 19:44   #95
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Does anyone here remember that the Attorney General then was Bobby Kennedy, the President's brother, and a political hard ball player?

I think that if there had been any evidence contrary to the Warren Commission conclusion that he would have had the FBI look under every rock until the complete truth was discovered.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:08   #96
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First, for the record: Tin foil hats are for those believing in UFO's and big-foots, but not the JFK conspiracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
... That 6.5mm MC bullet has a very high SD, passed through JFK's neck through soft tissue only, glanced off Connally's rib, then hit has wrist while tumbling before barely entering his left thigh. ...
You forgot to mention it left pieces of itself, at different locations in at least connally's body, which this fact is backed up by x-ray's and what was removed during surgery(ies).

How does a projectile start to disintegrate and then end up looking so pristine. Oh, and it didn't "barely enter his left thigh" and left a substantial part of itself in conally's leg as well.

Please elaborate.....................
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:10   #97
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Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge View Post
The House Select Committee on Assassinations- it was formed in '76, in part, to investigate the JFK Assassination. They concluded that Kennedy was likely killed as a result of a conspiracy. I guess this conspiracy stuff is like crack to these federal government committees! Maybe they just couldn't handle the "reality of a lone nut"?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...Assassinations

Remember! Whenever someone important is assassinated (you know, like the leader of the free world) any individual or group that stood to gain from their death likely had NOTHING to do with it. The culprit is always the lone nut job, whose motives are unclear, and who stands to gain nothing.
I refer to 'em as anti-conspiracy kooks.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:53   #98
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The Texas governor was seated juxtaposed more to the right (~outside) of JFK's position. Serious cartoon fail.
The front seat is offset to the left, and that's easy to verify. Was he sitting with his ass hanging half off the seat?

Also, it's easy to verify that he was turned and talking to the President so his legs would have been angled.

Conspiracy fail.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:10   #99
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First, for the record: Tin foil hats are for those believing in UFO's and big-foots, but not the JFK conspiracy.
Birds of a feather . . .

Quote:
You forgot to mention it left pieces of itself, at different locations in at least connally's body, which this fact is backed up by x-ray's and what was removed during surgery(ies).
Forgot? No. Wish to expand? Sure.

Quote:
How does a projectile start to disintegrate and then end up looking so pristine. Oh, and it didn't "barely enter his left thigh" and left a substantial part of itself in conally's leg as well.

Please elaborate.....................
Disintegrate? Surely you engage in hyperbole. So pristine? I've shown you the pictures, surely you jest.

Small amounts of lead from the base of the bullet were indeed seen on x-ray and some even removed at surgery from the Guv's wrist. The bullet weighs less than a unfired bullet from the same lot from that loss of material. Superficial wound tract in Connally's left thigh, hence its falling out and no substantial part of the projectile was left in that wound.

As you purportedly read the entire Warren Commission documentation, you of course knew everything I just said. Of course there are those who read but don't understand or worse, misunderstand what they read. I find that with a lot of people when it comes to medical and ballistic information.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:40   #100
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Does anyone here remember that the Attorney General then was Bobby Kennedy, the President's brother, and a political hard ball player?

I think that if there had been any evidence contrary to the Warren Commission conclusion that he would have had the FBI look under every rock until the complete truth was discovered.
You need to read Richard Schott's book, "No Left Turns" about Hoover and the FBI. It's mostly written as an entertaining book about Hoover's eccentricies. But, there is one part of it about Hoover and Robert Kennedy's relationship.

There was always a hotline that when the Attorney General picked it up, it rang in the FBI Director's office. Actually, it rang on Miss Gandy's desk. Miss Gandy was Hoover's long time secretary. When Robert Kennedy first became AG, he called the line, and when he got Hoover on the line, chewed his ass out, saying, "When I pick up this phone, I want to hear your voice, not some damn secretary's voice. Have it put on your desk today".

Afterwards, that phone would sit on Hoover's desk and he would look at it like a big turd, but he would answer it whenever Robert Kennedy called, which was often. Hoover had never put up with that from any other AG, but no other AG had ever been the brother of the President. That was a big difference.

According to Schott, on the day Kennedy was killed, Hoover was in his office, meeting with all his assistant directors and their briefcase holders, when the AG hotline started to ring. Everyone in the room stopped talking, and watched Hoover just look at it until it finally stopped ringing. Then Hoover said, "Somebody call tech to come put that phone back out on Miss Gandy's desk where it's supposed to be."
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