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Old 05-03-2013, 11:38   #101
ray9898
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Originally Posted by BamaTrooper View Post
Keeping a defendant past away from the jurors in a trial is a normal legal process. The victim, on the other hand, is fair game if the defense attorney can get things brought in.
I don't think there is a blanket one size fits all answer. I have seen many different results in my trials over the years as I assume you have too. I have seen defendants and victims past be excluded and I have also seen it entered on whole or part. The judge will ultimately decide if it supports the case or is just there to bias the jury. Obviously the defense has more leeway to blindly fire from the hip but it is not a guarantee they can put anything they want in front of the jury.

Last edited by ray9898; 05-03-2013 at 11:40..
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:42   #102
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Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post
Perhaps you missed the last hearing when Mark O'Meara alludes to these ping logs and that they indicate Trayvon may have been in a vehicle...
Oh, the "allusions" of a Defense Attorney... isn't that nearly the definition of a lie?

(His name is Mark O'Mara, BTW)

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Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post
Zimmerman didn't actively, physically detain Martin.
So... how-ever-did-they-meet on a public sidewalk in between two rows of condos?

Simple- Zimmerman attacked on foot when Martin tried to flee.

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Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post
See how that works? Pretty simple really.
You basically just demonstrated that your logic is compromised.

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Old 05-03-2013, 11:51   #103
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
No...its not really that dissimilar. One situation was in a neighborhood and one was in a shopping district. Both were investigative complaints with no overt criminal act.

Also...your statement that he didn't try to detain Martin is simply your take on what has been released. We know he went looking for him, that is without question. What happened when he found him is what is in question. The only version of events that has been released is from the one still alive who has everything to gain by minimizing his involvement. He certainly was not standing by the mailboxes waiting for LE like was discussed with the dispatcher. In court is where both versions will come out and the jury can decide.
Again, Zimmerman followed him for a bit while he was on the phone with the dispatcher. She asked him if he was trying to follow him. Zimmerman said yes. She said "we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman complied, even though there is no law that says one must comply with a suggestion of a 911 operator. He said "OK" and reportedly was walking back to his vehicle when Martin circled around and confronted him.

That has been his story all along. It doesn't seem strange to me, sounds entirely plausible - much more so that he said "OK" and broke into super-ninja mode and went after that up-to-no-good kid.

Zimmerman says that Martin was walking between the back patios of the homes, and looked like he was casing them. This is the exact same behavior reported in incidents involving break-ins there recently. It is quite possible Zimmerman reported Martin to the police because he was acting like a thief. Oh, and as it turns out, he really was a thief! Imagine that!
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:52   #104
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I get it. 'Lil Trayvon was an angel, pure as the driven snow. All that BS about him being a drug user, vandal, school discipline problem, probable burglar, predisposed to assault other people little thuglet don't mean nothin'! He was a good boy! Despite the fact that homes in that neighborhood had experienced a rash of burglaries including some by young black males per witnesses, Zimmerman had no right to be suspicious of someone who he didn't know from the neighborhood. Zimmerman was just itching to kill Trayvon just because he was black, so he stalked that boy like an animal, ran him down and shot him down in cold blood. Then he banged his own head on the pavement and bloodied his own nose to cover his tracks.

And he should have just let 'Lil Trayvon beat him to death while taking his "whuppin".

The idiocy of your position is exceeded only by the injustice of Zimmerman's prosecution. I can't wait until he walks, justifiably. Your reaction will no doubt be priceless. Then we can watch him sue everyone associated with this farce.

Note to thugs: if you assault someone who you think has "dissed" you, you may very well get shot....and rightly so.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:57   #105
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Oh, the "allusions" of a Defense Attorney... isn't that nearly the definition of a lie?

(His name is Mark O'Mara, BTW)
This was new evidence. It had just came to light. The prosecution about pooped gold bricks when it was mentioned in open court.

Quote:
So... how-ever-did-they-meet on a public sidewalk in between two rows of condos?

Simple- Zimmerman attacked on foot when Martin tried to flee.
Yeah, right. He had already broken off the pursuit. Martin circled around and there was a verbal confrontation (witness report this) and then there was screams heard (witness report this) and the screams were Zimmerman's (witnesses disagree somewhat on this) but there was no doubt Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot. All the forensics bear that out, just like Zimmerman told the police.

Quote:
You basically just demonstrated that your logic is compromised.
I've already called you out on blatant untruths (Trayvon's dad was home waiting for him to get candy, for instance.) You're not arguing from good faith, I realize that. I'm not putting this information in here for the likes of you, but for the reasonable people who may not know this information.

At any rate, it will all come out in the upcoming trial. You can revisit this thread and mock me all you want if it turns out all that I have mentioned is just a pack of lies. Thing is, they're not.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:01   #106
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Originally Posted by Gunboat1 View Post
I get it. 'Lil Trayvon was an angel, pure as the driven snow. All that BS about him being a drug user, vandal, school discipline problem, probable burglar, predisposed to assault other people little thuglet don't mean nothin'! He was a good boy! Despite the fact that homes in that neighborhood had experienced a rash of burglaries including some by young black males per witnesses, Zimmerman had no right to be suspicious of someone who he didn't know from the neighborhood. Zimmerman was just itching to kill Trayvon just because he was black, so he stalked that boy like an animal, ran him down and shot him down in cold blood. Then he banged his own head on the pavement and bloodied his own nose to cover his tracks.

And he should have just let 'Lil Trayvon beat him to death while taking his "whuppin".

The idiocy of your position is exceeded only by the injustice of Zimmerman's prosecution. I can't wait until he walks, justifiably. Your reaction will no doubt be priceless. Then we can watch him sue everyone associated with this farce.

Note to thugs: if you assault someone who you think has "dissed" you, you may very well get shot....and rightly so.
In the 911 tapes, at one point Zimmerman is in his vehicle and tells the operator that Martin is circling his vehicle glaring at him. If you turn the volume up at this point, you can hear the little angel screaming profanities. It's really quite telling when it comes to Martin's mindset that night. He felt like he needed to teach that busy-body a lesson. He had been dissed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:04   #107
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Bang! That's a kind of lesson, too. Trayvon learned it, as well he should have.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:07   #108
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Oh, and when Tracy Martin originally heard the recording of the screams, he said "That's not my son." Then, with some help from Crump, Tracy Martin recanted that and said "Oh, my bad. After listening to the enhanced audio, I can clearly tell that's Trayvon screaming."

O'Mara asked for this "enhanced audio." Crickets. Months go by. Finally, at the last hearing, it turns out there is no such thing. So...
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:17   #109
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Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post
Again, Zimmerman followed him for a bit while he was on the phone with the dispatcher. She asked him if he was trying to follow him. Zimmerman said yes. She said "we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman complied, even though there is no law that says one must comply with a suggestion of a 911 operator. He said "OK" and reportedly was walking back to his vehicle when Martin circled around and confronted him.

That has been his story all along. It doesn't seem strange to me, sounds entirely plausible - much more so that he said "OK" and broke into super-ninja mode and went after that up-to-no-good kid.

Actually....the dispatcher realized he was following him as he got out of his truck which can be heard by the door chime. The dispatcher said he 'didn't need to do that' because an officer was on the way. Z said okay and the dispatcher asked if he would meet the officer at the mailboxes at the front. Z agreed to meet there but then said 'can you have the officer call me when he gets here so I can tell him where I am at'. That insinuates to me that he was not planning to be at the mailboxes or at his truck. The call disconnects and Z ended up well away from his truck behind the row of houses. He claims he was on his way back to his truck but that has not been proven.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:17   #110
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Originally Posted by Cybercowboy View Post
He felt like he needed to teach that busy-body a lesson.
He should have took his whuppin' and learned his lesson.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:25   #111
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
I think you are a little confused. The altercation happened several doors down from his home which Martin had been certainly heading in the direction of. However, if I had a stranger following me I would have the common sense to not deliver them to my front door either.

Zimmerman first saw Martin walking towards the roadway entrance from the street entrance on Retreat View Circle and called 9-1-1 when he was near the clubhouse. He followed him onto Twin Trees Lane in his vehicle and parked his truck to search on foot after Martin continued down the sidewalk which goes between the two rows of home. The altercation happened on that sidewalk where Z walked in search of Martin and not where he was first encountered or even by his truck.

The question remains...did someone who had been creating distance suddenly come back or did Z find what he was looking for?




The Okie Corral

The Okie Corral
Happened? Where did it start?

How did Martin know he was being followed?


Zimmerman says the he was approached by TM as he stood near the T-intersection which is a short distance from his truck and a several doors from where TM was staying.

There is no logical explanation for TM staying that close to the T-intersection for the two minutes that GZ talked to the police, if he truly just wanted to leave the area. You cannot accept that the evidence shows that TM did not wish to leave the area and go home, past his home, or around the townhouses to the front door of his home.

Z would have never encountered TM, if TM had went home, went past his home, or went around to the front of his home.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:27   #112
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
He should have took his whuppin' and learned his lesson.
No one has to take getting their head bashed on the ground-period.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:28   #113
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
He should have took his whuppin' and learned his lesson.

Trayvon should have taken his shot like a man and learned his lesson.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:50   #114
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Well, he learned something... about terminal ballistics. Justice was served.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:52   #115
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Justice was served.
Justice will be served in the end... I'm somewhat confident of that.

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Old 05-03-2013, 12:54   #116
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Yea, I'm pretty confident Zimmernman will be found not guilty or hung jury.


Looks like we both agree that justice will be served.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:57   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Happened? Where did it start?
1111 Retreat View Circle according to Z's 9-1-1 call which is the clubhouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
How did Martin know he was being followed?
Seems it would be easy to see someone creeping along behind you in a vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Zimmerman says the he was approached by TM as he stood near the T-intersection which is a short distance from his truck and a several doors from where TM was staying.

There is no logical explanation for TM staying that close to the T-intersection for the two minutes that GZ talked to the police, if he truly just wanted to leave the area. You cannot accept that the evidence shows that TM did not wish to leave the area and go home, past his home, or around the townhouses to the front door of his home.

Z would have never encountered TM, if TM had went home, went past his home, or went around to the front of his home.
That is not my take on it at all. Z told the 9-1-1 he was watching Martin standing by the clubhouse talking on the phone. In his later interview he stated Martin was coming from the street entrance and he was leaving the complex in his truck. Afterwards Z began to follow Martin in his vehicle as he walked along the sidewalk towards the back of the complex.

The total length of the 9-1-1 call was just over 4 minutes. According to Google Maps it would be over 200 yards covered, 618 feet specifically from the clubhouse to the corner of the building with the sidewalk. How long is reasonable to cover that amount of distance?



Quote:
6:24:18 PM — A store video shows Martin purchasing a bag of Skittles and an Arizona Iced Tea.

6:54 - 7:12 — Martin has an 18-minute cell phone call with a girl (reported to be his girlfriend) which gets disconnected.

7:09:34 - 7:13:41 — George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.

7:11:33 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

7:11:59 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says, "Yes." Dispatcher states, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replies, "OK."

7:12:00 - 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.

7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.

7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.

Following the shooting:

7:17 — Officer T. Smith (first there) arrives in squad car at Retreat View.

Last edited by ray9898; 05-03-2013 at 13:03..
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:06   #118
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
1111 Retreat View Circle according to Z's 9-1-1 call which is the clubhouse?



Seems it would be easy to see someone creeping along behind you in a vehicle.




That is not my take on it at all. Z told the 9-1-1 operator that he encountered Martin walking into the community from the street entrance and that he was currently watching him standing by the clubhouse talking on the phone. Z began to follow Martin in his vehicle as he walked. The total length of the 9-1-1 call was just over 4 minutes. According to Google Maps it would be over 200 yards covered, 618 feet specifically from the clubhouse to the corner of the building with the sidewalk. How long is reasonable to cover that amount of distance?

Can you not tell you are being followed if someone is creeping behind you in a truck?
I asked you where the altercation started. You did not answer.

GZ was in his truck, when TM took off running. How did he know that GZ got out of his truck and was following him?

GZ stayed on the phone for about 2 minutes. He was not running. He never said that he saw TM again for those two minutes. TM had ample time to run or walk home. He did neither. This is a problem for those who want to paint TM as a victim of GZ. If TM truly wanted to escape, the thin 17 year old could have ran home, past his home, or around to the front of the townhouse. He did none of that. He chose to say close to where GZ lost sight of him. That points to him lying in wait for GZ, especially when you consider the trauma to GZ's nose and the posterior scalp compared to the lack of trauma to TM.
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:08   #119
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Justice will be served in the end... I'm somewhat confident of that.

You're pretty confident in your reply. Why the ambiguity, then? How exactly will justice be served, to whom, and by whom. Honest question.
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:12   #120
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How exactly will justice be served, to whom, and by whom. Honest question.
Karma.

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Old 05-03-2013, 13:27   #121
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A lot of new evidence has come to light, since March of 2012, when many decided in their minds that GZ was guilty of murder.

Reuters did an excellent job of explaining the rash of home invasions that GZ's neighborhood had suffered. Of the suspects that were seen fleeing, all were black males.

GZ's black female neighbor was squarely in GZ's corner.

Read the Reuters investigation here:

Quote:
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425
Now, we are learning that the women's jewelry found on TM might very well be linked to an home invasion near his school. TM was also found to be in possession of a large flat head screwdriver that the police officer described as a "burglary tool".

We may have a neighborhood watch member, in a home invasion plagued community, who spotted a young home invasion offender and thought his actions warranted an investigation by Law Enforcement. He may have then been ambushed as he walked though the t-intersection, sucker-punched, and subjected to a sustained beating by the young home invasion offender. That's quite a different narrative than the media offered in March of 2012.

Also, at the April 30th hearing, there was a brief mention that TM's phone was pinged a long distance from the area. Was he in a car? Was Dee-DEE there with a car and acting as an accomplice to possible criminal activity? It is possible. That would explain her being on the phone with him, but not coming forward until her number was found by Tracy Martin.

The GZ haters have invested a great deal of emotion and ego into wanting GZ found guilty of murder. Just the fact that he called the police at all outraged many, but in light of the Reuter's investigation, we can see why GZ made the call.
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:30   #122
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Karma.

Karma maybe GZ winning miliions from NBC for doctoring a police phone call recording in order to make him appear to be a racist. That would be karma.
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:34   #123
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I asked you where the altercation started. You did not answer..
I figured that was obvious...where the body and shell casing were found. Looks like it would have been about 220 feet from Z's truck behind a row of houses.

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GZ was in his truck, when TM took off running. How did he know that GZ got out of his truck and was following him?.
He probably put two and two together when 'ol Z came bopping around the corner on his foot search. He already knew he was being followed when he was in the truck.

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GZ stayed on the phone for about 2 minutes. He was not running. He never said that he saw TM again for those two minutes. TM had ample time to run or walk home. He did neither. This is a problem for those who want to paint TM as a victim of GZ. If TM truly wanted to escape, the thin 17 year old could have ran home, past his home, or around to the front of the townhouse. He did none of that. He chose to say close to where GZ lost sight of him.
He did have time to walk home but as before I certainly would not lead some stranger following me to my door. I would create distance and try to figure out what was up. It appears his instinct was to get away from the immediate presence of Z which he did. Martin did nothing wrong if he chose to stand on that sidewalk and there was no requirement for him to run home as you imply. If his sole intent was to confront Z then he had plenty of chances when he was creeping along in his truck behind him for over 2 minutes. Instead he fled from Z who approached him again in the foot search.

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That points to him lying in wait for GZ, especially when you consider the trauma to GZ's nose and the posterior scalp compared to the lack of trauma to TM.
No...that proves there was a physical altercation between them. Depending on who was justified in self defense those injuries could be justified.

Last edited by ray9898; 05-03-2013 at 13:43..
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:35   #124
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Do you have a source for that?
Prior criminal history has always been excluded, has no bearing on the current case, is just prejudicial. There are probably exceptions, but not common.

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Old 05-03-2013, 13:54   #125
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Funny thing is you could create an exact generic scenario of this event and post it in GNG right now and the popular opinion would do a 180º.

Let's pretend Joe Blow posted a story about walking home from the local store when some unknown guy started following him in a truck as he walked through his neighborhood. Lets say Joe was alarmed and created some distance only to be followed by the same person on foot.

The advice would 100% be not to go home. You would also have plenty of advice about confronting the follower and you would have plenty who would even articulate their justification to pull their gun in self defense because being stalked by an unknown person places a reasonable person in fear. This is America and it isn't illegal to walk down the street. After all, no one stalks people in public without nefarious intentions. God gave you that spidey sense for a reason.

I guarantee not one person would say "don't worry about it Joe, it isn't illegal for him to stalk you". "Stroll on home and relax so you don't worry so much".

Last edited by ray9898; 05-03-2013 at 13:58..
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