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Old 05-02-2013, 12:00   #51
KalashniKEV
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I know some punk kids like that.

You think it's cool if I stalk one of them down during the halftime show of a televised sporting event and put a few rounds in him?

Or maybe, you know, like... some other time like when he's out for candy or ice cream or something...
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:01   #52
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How can you file felony burglary charges with no victim?
Now, you've done it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 15:55   #53
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We would have booked the backpack for safekeeping because the jail and the hall do not take backpacks. The jewelry would have been photographed and booked for safekeeping. He would have been able to pick it up when released. If he was not confined he would have walked with the stuff after being released. We would have taken pics.

The pics would have been to send around to other agencies to see if they recognized anything from their reports.

Of course most people do not have good descriptions of their jewelry. That and with multiple jurisdictions being involved it could be months before someone puts 2 and 2 together. Property crimes are the lowest priority. Our property crimes detectives have a caseload of 30-50 cases they are actively working at any one time. Person crimes detectives have a caseload of 10-30.

As for this info at trial, it will not be allowed. For it to be allowed he would have to have known it at the time of the shooting. One of the many reasons why if we have the time we will research a suspect as much as possible.
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Old 05-02-2013, 16:39   #54
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Had this information been available and publicized right after the shooting, I do wonder if it might have changed the whole media direction and if so possibly the decision as to whether or not to pursue criminal charges.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:44   #55
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
I know some punk kids like that.

You think it's cool if I stalk one of them down during the halftime show of a televised sporting event and put a few rounds in him?

Or maybe, you know, like... some other time like when he's out for candy or ice cream or something...
No, but if they attack some homeowner trying to look after his neighborhood, beat him severely and get shot for their trouble....THAT's cool.

Society experiences a net gain.
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Old 05-02-2013, 19:58   #56
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The biggest factor in this case is who was justified in self defense and that will depend entirely on what happened the moment the two met. Did Martin really come back and confront Z after sprinting away or did Z find what he was obviously looking for in his continued search?

Most completely discount that the actions of Z could have allowed Martin to be justified in using physical force to defend himself. It seems most say "he is injured so that proves the other person was the aggressor". If Martin was justified in using the force the injuries to Z prove nothing.

Which one can prove it will be the question.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:21   #57
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It will probably be kept out just like Zimmermans prior arrest for resisting arrest and battery on an LEO.
Having looked at some of the preliminary decisions, I would guess that Zimmerman's record is far more likely to come in as substantive rebuttal evidence.

Since any accusation against Trayvon did not involve violence, it won't come in as substantive evidence, and since there was no conviction it would be very unlikely to come in at all.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:28   #58
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Having looked at some of the preliminary decisions, I would guess that Zimmerman's record is far more likely to come in as substantive rebuttal evidence.

Since any accusation against Trayvon did not involve violence, it won't come in as substantive evidence, and since there was no conviction it would be very unlikely to come in at all.
How would that get "entered" or brought up in the trial?
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:30   #59
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and Zimmerman was virgin white before the case? NOPE!

and presently Zimmerman is the one who killed a man after being instructed by the police to back off.

..."In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer." Both these felonies are considered third-degree. Due to his desperate attempts, the charges were reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then the only remaining charge was also completely waived off when he entered an alcohol education program.

In the same year (2005), Zimmerman's ex-fiance, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. In retaliation, Zimmerman filed for a retraining order against Zuazo and both these claims were resolved with both restraining orders granted."

Last edited by moeman; 05-03-2013 at 05:00..
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:35   #60
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If I took jewelry from someone on a traffic stop because the owner could not prove where they got it I guarantee GT would not be so supportive. I would be called a thief, people would demand my badge and an arrest with the harshest punishment.
You are damn right some of us would.

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This case is different simply because hind sight is always 20/20.
This case is no different. There was not ample evidence that he had committed a crime and the police seemed to have acted appropriately based upon the lack of evidence.

He doesnt have to prove the jewelry was his, the burden of proof that a crime was committed lays with the police/da.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:38   #61
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The biggest factor in this case is who was justified in self defense and that will depend entirely on what happened the moment the two met. Did Martin really come back and confront Z after sprinting away or did Z find what he was obviously looking for in his continued search?

Most completely discount that the actions of Z could have allowed Martin to be justified in using physical force to defend himself. It seems most say "he is injured so that proves the other person was the aggressor". If Martin was justified in using the force the injuries to Z prove nothing.

Which one can prove it will be the question.
It will be an interesting trial. I suspect not all details have been leaked...

I think Z is supported more on GT because martin is a "thug", there are people who picture themselves as batman, and in general a CCWer cannot possibly be wrong.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:13   #62
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No, but if they attack some homeowner trying to look after his neighborhood, beat him severely and get shot for their trouble....THAT's cool.

Society experiences a net gain.
I'm not sure... who says Martin attacked first? Zimmerman?

Whether it was advice/commands/ instructions or whatever from the authorities, Zimmerman made the decision in the course of his armed pursuit to leave his vehicle and give footchase.

Why was Zimmerman rollin' through the hood with a gun looking for people he didn't know to accost?

There has been much made of Trayvon smoking weed (lots of teens do), having jewelry, and even being video taped in the background of a playground fight between two other youngsters ()... what about Zimmerman?

This is an undeducated guy with rap sheet for fighting cops in bars, wife beating, and... oh, yeah... did you guys forget that he repeatedly tried to sexxx up his first cousin???

This is a sick and deranged individual, no doubt. More will be exposed for sure.

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Did Martin really come back and confront Z after sprinting away or did Z find what he was obviously looking for in his continued search?
This.

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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
It seems most say "he is injured so that proves the other person was the aggressor".
And this.

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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
I think Z is supported more on GT because martin is a "thug", there are people who picture themselves as batman, and in general a CCWer cannot possibly be wrong.
Absolutely this.

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It will be an interesting trial.
Most definitely!

(The Florida ones always are!)
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:37   #63
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The undercover cop who Zimmerman got in a "fight" with was hassling Zimmeran's friend, trying to take him out of the bar, and had not at any point identified himself as a LEO. Zimmerman tried to defend his friend. Only after the altercation did the undercover bar cop decide to press charges and make it look like Zimmerman was trying to interfere with an arrest.

You people defending Trayvon may not realize that:

He was suspended for over 50 days his last two semesters of school. He had been kicked out of one school already.

He punched a bus driver.

He participated in fight clubs.

What teenager is in possession of women's jewelry in a backpack at HS? The jewelry had been reported stolen, with descriptions, prior to the jewelry being found in Trayvon's backpack along with a screwdriver, something not allowed at school and many kids get kicked out for less (it's a weapon, dontchaknow.)

Trayvon was seen skulking around during school hours in places he was not supposed to be, and had committed vandalism on school property, caught on video.

There was a recent rash of burglaries and break-ins in Zimmeran's apartment complex and, as the captain of the neighborhood watch, perhaps that would explain what he was doing looking for suspicious characters.

Trayvon did not just walk to the store and back. Cell phone ping records indicate he was in a vehicle at some point during his little trip. There is video at the store of him interacting with three other juveniles in a vehicle.

Zimmerman did indeed break off pursuit when the dispatcher told him "you don't need to do that." However, Trayvon felt dissed and decided to play the knockout game, something he enjoyed (ask the bus driver...)

Zimmerman was an activist who just the year before worked on behalf of helping a black man who was wrongly accused of assault on a homeless guy. His activism led directly to the man being cleared of the charges.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:57   #64
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The undercover cop who Zimmerman got in a "fight" with was hassling Zimmeran's friend...
Wow... that's quite a spirited defense of Zimmerman.

Even I can admit that they were both dirtbags. Zimmerman is the only one with a rap sheet though.

What makes you want to jump in bed with the guy like that?

And more importantly, back to the original question... which is the only thing that matters... Martin was making a skittle run during half time of watching the NBA all star game with his father... how did Zimmerman manage to insert himself into his life and kill him on his return?
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:01   #65
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:04   #66
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Wow... that's quite a spirited defense of Zimmerman.

Even I can admit that they were both dirtbags. Zimmerman is the only one with a rap sheet though.

What makes you want to jump in bed with the guy like that?

And more importantly, back to the original question... which is the only thing that matters... Martin was making a skittle run during half time of watching the NBA all star game with his father... how did Zimmerman manage to insert himself into his life and kill him on his return?
No he wasn't. His father wasn't there, nor was his father's GF. They got home sometime around midnight. He had left lil' Trayvon in charge of babysitting his younger cousin while they went out on the town. Trayvon left his cousin alone at the apartment for well over an hour. He didn't just go to the store to get skittles and watermelon tea (two of the three ingredients for a narcotic drink that Trayvon had bragged on his YT channel he was really into.)

There is video of him interacting with three juveniles with a car, and his cell phone pinged towers miles from his supposed walking route. The knuckleheads he was seen with at the store bought blunts.

I think you had your mind made up that Zimmerman was guilty. You sure like to call him a dirt bag for getting into an altercation at a bar 8 years ago. However, I would imagine that the black dude that he helped get out of jail for being wrongly accused of assault would beg to differ.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:07   #67
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BTW, people may not realize that the reason Zimmerman got his CHL was because he was attacked by a pit bull while doing his neighborhood watch thing a couple of years before the shooting incident. He asked a cop what he should do to prevent such a thing from happening again. The cop told him "get a gun" and he did just that.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:09   #68
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Defending? All I see is some saying is the running assumption on here of what took place may be flawed. Just a few details either way what happened the moment they met will justify who was justified in self defense. Much of the evidence can be used to support actions on either side.

We know the interaction happened well over a 200 yards from where the two first laid eyes on each other. We know from Z's account Martin was aware he was being followed and was trying to create distance from him by walking and finally running. We know Z continued to search for Martin after LE was on the way because "these *******s always get away". We know Z parked his truck in the street and began searching on foot.

So....again. Did Z find what he was looking for and attempt to unlawfully hold Martin for LE or does someone who just spent several minutes avoiding a stranger following them suddenly come back for violence?
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:17   #69
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I know some punk kids like that.


You think it's cool if I stalk one of them down during the halftime show of a televised sporting event and put a few rounds in him?*




Or maybe, you know, like... some other time like when he's out for candy or ice cream or something...
Did they break your nose and try to bash your brains in for calling the police on them? Would you just let them beat you to death?
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:25   #70
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Defending? All I see is some saying is the running assumption on here of what took place may be flawed. Just a few details either way what happened the moment they met will justify who was justified in self defense. Much of the evidence can be used to support actions on either side.

We know the interaction happened well over a 200 yards from where the two first laid eyes on each other. We know from Z's account Martin was aware he was being followed and was trying to create distance from him by walking and finally running. We know Z continued to search for Martin after LE was on the way because "these *******s always get away". We know Z parked his truck in the street and began searching on foot.

So....again. Did Z find what he was looking for and attempt to unlawfully hold Martin for LE or does someone who just spent several minutes avoiding a stranger following them suddenly come back for violence?
The problem for the Martin supporters is that TM only lived a few doors down the little sidewalk T-intersection. GZ was on the phone with police when he lost sight of him. GZ continued to hold a conversation with the police for about 2 minutes. TM had plenty of time to run home or even walk home. There was no foot pursuit by the pudgy GZ. TM stayed in the area.


7:11:42 TM takes off running. GZ gets out of his vehicle door chime can be heard.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:31   #71
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Did they break your nose and try to bash your brains in for calling the police on them? Would you just let them beat you to death?
Nope.

If anyone I know or care about was being stalked in the streets by some down-on-his-luck loser though, I would hope they'd give him every bit of the whuppin' he deserved.

Zimmerman should have took the whuppin' he earned, went home, cleaned himself up, evaluated his life, and learned from it.

He chose to reach for his gun though, which he likely planned all along, and now he must pay for it.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:32   #72
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The problem for the Martin supporters is that TM only lived a few doors down the little sidewalk T-intersection. GZ was on the phone with police when he lost sight of him. GZ continued to hold a conversation with the police for about 2 minutes. TM had plenty of time to run home or even walk home. There was no foot pursuit by the pudgy GZ. TM stayed in the area.

7:11:42 TM takes off running. GZ gets out of his vehicle door chime can be heard.

...and the altercation happened on the sidewalk between two rows of houses in the general area of Martin's home which was no where near Z's parked truck where he was on the phone with 9-1-1. So did Martin 'stay in the area' of his house after fleeing there or did Z simply go find him? To me that means its obvious Z continued his stalk. I don't see how that is a 'problem' for anyone other than Z. For example, if the altercation happened at the truck I would say its a problem for Martin indicating he came back

Last edited by ray9898; 05-03-2013 at 09:07..
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:42   #73
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:47   #74
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:59   #75
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Nope.
Then, you would save your own life. Thanks.
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