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Old 04-28-2013, 04:04   #26
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I googled a bit and found this on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposit...n_Christianity

The Christian opposition seems like much to do about nothing to me. As those against it dont seem to have a rational reason to be against them.

One of the reasons listed that Catholics where against it was because Masons believe in separation of church and state.

I could find no reasoning that is Bible based that would prevent you from becoming a member.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:32   #27
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The secretary of my lodge is an ordained minister. Some of the most religious men I know are masons.

To the OP: you live in Florida. If you want to know more please PM me I can tell you what Florida masonry is all about and I can direct you to your local lodge. Dinners are free and open to the public. You can attend and ask the brothers there any questions you have about masonry. It is the best thing I ever did (joining). It is not a religion but religious in nature.

To all those people who think it's anti Christian, just FYI a bible must be present on the altar at all times in every state in the USA.

In Israel it would be a Torah, and in those Islamic countries where it isn't banned (turkey) you will find a Koran. Any other questions please PM me.

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Old 04-28-2013, 04:36   #28
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I come from an extremely masonic family. Dad/grandfather/ brothers/uncles, dad is still very involved in his late 70's and is a Shriner Clown. Every month he takes sick kids to the hospital in Philly where they receive free treatment.. My brothers and I were all very involved in Masonic youth groups ( I still am, as an advisor, now that my daughter is very involved) and I'm also in OES ( although I only joined for my parents and rarely go). We are also Jewish, yet sadly, we have neither the Masonic OR the Jewish secret hoard of gold. :p

It has been absolutely a positive influence in all our lives. We have gained amazing friendships, learned the value of service, and many lifelong skills. ( when I was 18 I was the head of our State girls youth group, and had many amazing opportunities to travel, learn public speaking skills, etc). there are wonderful people in all walks of life, but I've found a disproportionate number of wonderful people in our Masonic families.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:50   #29
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Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.
That's cute.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:35   #30
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OP much of the information in this thread is true. One thing however is that each state has a Grand Lodge and they have rules and regulations of their own. In Pennsylvania the Grand Master a few years ago changed the rules by permitting us to ask friends to join. I am not familiar with the Florida GL regulations. Take Sean up on his offer. Good luck in your search. tom.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:37   #31
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Alright since there seems to be discussion about Christianity and Masonry having issues with each other, I will address the main issue between Catholicism and Masonry. I will first present some historical facts, and then some Masonic lore associated with those facts.

EDIT:

I should add that I know many Catholic Masons, and Masonry does not have any negative views towards Catholics. The Catholic Church on the other hand, is not very favorable to Masonry.

Facts

The Knights Templar (KT) became a very powerful and rich society because they would guard pilgrims going to the holy land. They were the first "international bankers" so to speak because they would take your money in France, give you a ticket, escort you tothe holy land, and then you would turn in your ticket for cash. As a result, they became prestigious and wealthy. The Catholic church did not like this, and ended up accusing them of all sorts of heresies such as spitting on the cross and worshiping a false idol named Baphomet (thought to be a bad translation of Mohammad). Ultimately, Pope Clement V had the KTs rounded up and executed. Their leader was burned alive at the stake, their riches were seized and given to the Knights Hospitallers of St. John (now known as the Knights of Malta).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Molay

Lore

Some KTs survived and fled to Scotland where they saved Robert De Bruce from certain defeat. As a reward, he gave them protected status in Scotland and they helped build Rosslyn chapel (this is debated). It is also said that the KTs eventually found safety within English and Scottish stonemason guilds, and it was in these masonic guilds that KTs were able to survive and pass down their rituals. Ultimately, the stone mason guilds allowed in intellectuals such as doctors and lawyers, and became what is known as modern day freemasonry (called speculative masonry). Operative masonry is the masonry where you actually build buildings.

To this day the Catholic church accuses the Masons of the same heresies that they accused the KTs of. It's like an ancient battle that been going on for hundreds of years.

The KTs survive today within the higher degrees of Freemasonry.

Back to Facts

Within Masonry there are Knight Templar degrees. The York Rite has their own degree, and the Scottish Rite has the 30th Degree Knight Kadosh (holy knight). The Knight Kadosh is essentially a Knight Templar degree. Some info can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Kadosh

Back to Lore

Albert Pike, the man who is essentially known as the founder of the Scottish Rite's current rituals, spoke heavily about this topic in the 30th chapter of his book Morals and Dogma. This book is his personal writings, it holds 0 authority in Masonry, and it is merely meant to be a commentary to the degrees. That being said, it is still a very very entertaining read. In the 30th chapter, he says some things such as:

(note this was all written in the 1800s long before internet)

Quote:
An hundred years ago it had become known that the Knights Kadosh‎ were the Templars under a veil, and therefore the Degree was pro-scribed, and, ceasing to be worked, became a mere brief and formal ceremony, under another name. Now, from the tomb in which after his murders he rotted, Clement the Fifth howls against the successors of his victims, in the Allocution of Pio Nono against the Free-Masons. The ghosts of the dead Templars haunt the Vatican and disturb the slumbers of the paralyzed Papacy, which, dreading the dead, shrieks out its excommunications and impotent anathemas against the living. It is a declaration of war, and was needed to arouse apathy and inertness to action.

An enemy of the Templars shall tell us the secret of this Papal hostility against an Order that has existed for centuries in despite of its anathemas, and has its Sanctuaries and Asyla even in Rome.
Quote:
"The Templars, or Poor Fellow-Soldiery of the Holy House of the Temple intended to be re-built, took as their models, in the Bible, the Warrior-Masons of Zorobabel, who worked, holding the sword in one hand and the trowel in the other. Therefore it was that the Sword and the Trowel were the insignia of the Templars, who subsequently, as will be seen, concealed themselves under the name of Brethren Masons. [This name, Frres Masons in the French, adopted by way of secret reference to the Builders of the Second Temple, was corrupted in English into Free-Masons, as Pythagore de Crotone was into Peter Gower of Groton in England. Khairu_m or Khu_r-u_m, (a name mis-rendered into Hiram) from an artificer in brass and other metals, became the Chief Builder of the Haikal Kadosh, the Holy House, of the Temple, the Ἱερος Δομος; and the words Bonai and Banaim yet appear in the Masonic Degrees, meaning Builder and Builders.]
Quote:
"The end of the drama is well known, and how Jacques de Molai and his fellows perished in the flames. But before his execution, the Chief of the doomed Order organized and instituted what afterward came to be called the Occult, Hermetic, or Scottish Masonry. In the gloom of his prison, the Grand Master created four Metropolitan Lodges, at Naples for the East, at Edinburg for the West, at Stockholm for the North, and at Paris for the South." [The initials of his name, J∴ B∴ M∴ found in the same order in the first three Degrees, are but one of the many internal and cogent proofs that such was the origin of modern Free-Masonry. The legend of Osiris was revived and adopted, to symbolize the destruction of the Order, and the resurrection of Khu_ru_m, slain in the body of the Temple, of KHU_RU_M ABAI, the Master, as the martyr of fidelity to obligation, of Truth and Conscience, prophesied the restoration to life of the buried association.]

"The Pope and the King soon after perished in a strange and sudden manner. Squin de Florian, the chief denouncer of the Order, died assassinated. In breaking the sword of the Templars, they made of it a poniard; and their proscribed trowels thence-forward built only tombs."

[The Order disappeared at once. Its estates and wealth were confiscated, and it seemed to have ceased to exist. Nevertheless it lived, under other names and governed by unknown Chiefs, revealing itself only to those who, in passing through a series of Degrees, had proven themselves worthy to be entrusted with the dangerous Secret. The modern Orders that style themselves Templars have assumed a name to which they have not the shadow of a title.]

First of all, I have the actual book, but this is a copy/paste from an online source. It is substantially the same. Secondly, just remember that within every rumor there is some kernel of fact.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:38   #32
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Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.
or, since you don't have facts, need a crowbar?
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:40   #33
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Interesting. Care to elaborate....with FACTS.
no. he wouldn't, because he doesn't have any.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:46   #34
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to the o.p. it's not a money club. Some of my lodge brothers are affluent, some of us work 16 hour days.

it's not a cult. any more than your local moose lodge, elks, kiwanis, or anything else.

some of us are christians, some of us are jews. (we even have a member that is one generation from african royalty).

if you have questions, there are quite a few of us that happen to be glocktalkers. (oh...wait....we're a cult....aaaaaaggghhhh..get the tinfoil). and will gladly do whatever we can to help if you decide to join.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:01   #35
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara...c_Associations

Catholic Church's official stance on Masonry.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:09   #36
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Do they recruit, I don't know any Masons but have a high interest in becoming one, never belonged to any type of organizations but would like to. don't want to join one of the drinking lodges like the moose as I don't drink.
I've been a Mason for thirty two years and have never once even doubted that it was the best decision I ever made.

I like to say that the Masonic Lodge gives good men a chance to be even better.

Masons don't defend themselves from those who attack the fraternity. We simply don't need to.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:07   #37
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Quote:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara...c_Associations

Catholic Church's official stance on Masonry.

Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....

Later that evening Father Nelligan visited the house and it was about as close to an exorcism as I ever want to be part of!!

My Dad was pretty big in the local KOC, and I guess thinking about being a Mason was a quick ticket for the express bus to hell!!

I'm neither now, but for sure both organizations do a lot of good work for the communities. Think the Masons win the prize for numbers though.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:34   #38
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Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....

Later that evening Father Nelligan visited the house and it was about as close to an exorcism as I ever want to be part of!!

My Dad was pretty big in the local KOC, and I guess thinking about being a Mason was a quick ticket for the express bus to hell!!

I'm neither now, but for sure both organizations do a lot of good work for the communities. Think the Masons win the prize for numbers though.

Around thirty two years ago I was the WM of our Lodge. The WM of a nearby Lodge was also the presiding officer of the KoC at the same time. He told me the two organizations were almost exactly the same. Who would have thought? tom.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:50   #39
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What do they do that interests you?
The Okie Corral
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:10   #40
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Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....
You know that's a good point I didn't even think to bring up. The Masonic youth organization is called "demolay"...which so happens to be the last name of the Grand Master of the Templars who was burnt at the stake. Another reason why I imagine Father Nelligan wasn't too happy about hearing that.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:50   #41
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My grandpa's dad was a Mason and a Minister, and he said he made better friendships with the Masons, than he did with the church. I don't remember the denomination he was, but it was the one where they move the Minister around every few years, so the congregation doesn't get too attached.

And when I lived in the northern part of Texas, I knew a Mason. He said it was a great organization, he loved it, made some great friends, and he even told me that if I wanted to join then he'd vouch for me. I don't know though, it just never interested me very much. But he never had anything but praises for his Lodge, and it seems like it'd be a great thing to do, if that's your kind of thing to do.

I say contact your local lodge, let them know what's going on, let them know you want to join, and go from there.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:28   #42
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I have a question . What are the " degrees " and how are they earned ?
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:32   #43
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I have a question . What are the " degrees " and how are they earned ?
they are the steps that you take to becoming a mason. every one of us has done them.

i won't go into too much detail, but, they are something that the father of our country had done.

degrees have rapidly become my favorite part of the lodge. doing degree nights.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:08   #44
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There are 3 degrees.

1st degree Entered Apprentice

2nd degree Fellowcraft

3rd degree Master Mason

The "blue lodge" is the body that is responsible for conferring these degrees. These are the lodges in your area. In the blue lodge, all 3rd degrees are equal.

The York Rite and Scottish Rite each have their own degrees that they confer. Although a man may be a 32nd degree Mason (like myself), I have no more say than a Master Mason when I am in blue lodge.

The Scottish Rite meetings though are another thing. The Scottish Rite may exclude Master Masons that have not received the Scottish Rite degrees yet. Same with York Rite. But, when it boils down to it, the blue lodge is the lifeblood of Masonry because they are the only body that can initiate men into Masonry. All the other bodies require you to be a Mason to join them.

When you join, you are initiated as an Entered Apprentice. You must then learn various things, and perform a proficiency in front of the lodge. If the lodge finds you proficient, you are eligible to become a 2nd degree. Repeat until you attain the 3rd degree.

Then you can join the York Rite or Scottish Rite or Shrine.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:13   #45
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Just a quick brag, I'm not gonna post a link for obvious reasons but our local newspaper recently had a great article about our lodge open house day, with a pic of my daughter and a couple of other Rainbow Giris.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:20   #46
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our lodge had dinners with

Knights of Columbus

B'nai Brith

we all seemed very much alike.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:30   #47
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Just a quick brag, I'm not gonna post a link for obvious reasons but our local newspaper recently had a great article about our lodge open house day, with a pic of my daughter and a couple of other Rainbow Giris.
My home lodge did an open house a few years ago. It even made the newspaper:

The Okie Corral

http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...ticles/7271007
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:36   #48
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Since I also know next to nothing about the Masons... Are the Masons all about the religion? What I mean, is if everyone is treated as an equal, does that include someone who doesn't believe in religion? As a follow-up, is an affirmative belief required to join, and is religion pushed within the lodge?
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:38   #49
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Since I also know next to nothing about the Masons... Are the Masons all about the religion? What I mean, is if everyone is treated as an equal, does that include someone who doesn't believe in religion? As a follow-up, is an affirmative belief required to join, and is religion pushed within the lodge?
No atheist can be made a mason. You must profess belief in a supreme being. Dinners open with prayer. The lodge is opened and closed with prayer. There is always a bible present on the altar. It is religious in nature.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:51   #50
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One of the best decisions I've ever made was becoming a Mason. Love my brothers!

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