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Old 05-08-2013, 10:03   #451
Peace Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
How about some actual proof and not more of this hearsay. You still can not even tell me what it means to "make it" to the "American 30th plus degree". You have no clue what part of Masonry that is or how it's obtained. You continue to spread lies about an ancient and honorable fraternity. If you don't want to join... DON'T, but please stop with all the garbage.
All I am doing with these last couple of posts is repeating what past masons have written about masonry. If you insist they are lying, then with all due respect the problem is on your end and solely within your belief system/worldview as a mason.

ETA: ( e.g., Manly P. Hall, 33º, William Schnoebelen, Henry Clausen, 33º, Albert Pike, 33º, Albert Mackey, 33º et al.)
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"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 05-08-2013 at 10:07..
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:25   #452
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
All I am doing with these last couple of posts is repeating what past masons have written about masonry. If you insist they are lying, then with all due respect the problem is on your end and solely within your belief system/worldview as a mason.

ETA: ( e.g., Manly P. Hall, 33º, William Schnoebelen, Henry Clausen, 33º, Albert Pike, 33º, Albert Mackey, 33º et al.)
I've already posted more than enough about Albert Pike. As for the rest, it's kind of like school. Sight your sources (and I don't mean just a name). William Schnoebelen is most certainly a capitalist at best and probably much worse. I'm not sure how Henry Clausen fits in. As for the rest, what are these quotes and where are they published?

I do not believe any Mason is lying. I believe you are lying about what they have said or perhaps misinterpreting what they have said. Maybe they are all just ex Mason with an axe to grind, but unlike you, they were at least Masons.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:37   #453
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Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
I've already posted more than enough about Albert Pike. ...
Look, it's obvious you have a problem with what they have written due to its undermining your belief system, but understand something, I don't have the same problem you have and take these men at their word(s).

C/O- albert pike: Are you saying pike was not a 33º mason during his life time and therefore has no relevance as far as his writings?
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:53   #454
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Look, it's obvious you have a problem with what they have written due to its undermining your belief system, but understand something, I don't have the same problem you have and take these men at their word(s).

C/O- albert pike: Are you saying pike was not a 33º mason during his life time and therefore has no relevance as far as his writings?
Not at all. If he was a 33 degree mason, then he was. I'm sure you didn't read a one bit of what I posted about Albert Pike. Albert Pike is as suspect as they come in my book. He is also reputed to have written the KKK's ritual.

You clearly have no idea what these men have actually written! I have asked you repeatedly to quote them and the sources for your quotes. You can't do it. You present yourself as an expert... so prove it.

Last edited by Aragorn77; 05-08-2013 at 12:21..
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:27   #455
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Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
Not at all. If he was a 33 degree mason, then he was. I'm sure you didn't read a one bit of what I posted about Albert Pike. Albert Pike is as suspect as they come in my book. He is also reputed to have written the KKK's ritual. ...
Okay, in your opinion pike is suspect, but then you are trying to accuse me out of your own mindset (i.e., projecting). In some ways humorous from my end of things.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
...You have no idea what these men have written! I have asked you repeatedly to quote them and the sources for your quotes. You can't do it. You present yourself as an expert... so prove it.
I've never said I was an expert so you're both incorrect and misleading yet again, however, I do/have had family members in the masons, I am a voracious reader, and have studied this out with actual and former masons for literally decades. Period.
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 05-08-2013 at 12:30..
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:34   #456
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OK... so you've read a lot. What did all these men say and where did they say it?

You have still not answered a single question I have asked.

Last edited by Aragorn77; 05-08-2013 at 12:39..
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Old 05-08-2013, 14:29   #457
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Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
OK... so you've read a lot. What did all these men say and where did they say it?

You have still not answered a single question I have asked.
Nor will he.

The phrase "Let him rant that men may know him mad" comes to mind.
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Old 05-08-2013, 18:49   #458
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An argument with someone who is passionate but willing to use reason is a worthwhile discussion. A passionate person can be led by reason.

An argument with someone who is ignorant and willing to use reason is a worthwhile discussion. The Ignorance can be solved using reason.

If a person who is ignorant AND passionate also lacks the ability or desire to listen and reason, they are a fool. It is a foolish waste of time to attempt reasonable debate.

Our Fraternity need no defense by us against the ignorant and those who are not willing to listen, or those who, even worse, cling to misguided ignorance because that is what they have already decided to do.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:33   #459
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Originally Posted by zoyter2 View Post
An argument with someone who is passionate but willing to use reason is a worthwhile discussion. A passionate person can be led by reason.

An argument with someone who is ignorant and willing to use reason is a worthwhile discussion. The Ignorance can be solved using reason.

If a person who is ignorant AND passionate also lacks the ability or desire to listen and reason, they are a fool. It is a foolish waste of time to attempt reasonable debate.

Our Fraternity need no defense by us against the ignorant and those who are not willing to listen, or those who, even worse, cling to misguided ignorance because that is what they have already decided to do.
Well said.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:37   #460
Peace Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn77 View Post
OK... so you've read a lot. What did all these men say and where did they say it?

You have still not answered a single question I have asked.
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...eemasonry.html

degrees of American freemasonry:
  1. Apprentice
  2. Fellow-craft
  3. Master
  4. Secret Master
  5. Perfect Master
  6. Intimate Secretary
  7. Provost and Judge
  8. Intendant[sic] of the Building
  9. Elu of the Nine
  10. Elu of the Fifteen
  11. Elu of the Twelve
  12. Master Architect
  13. Royal Arch of Solomon
  14. Perfect Elu
  15. Knight of the East
  16. Prince of Jerusalem
  17. Knight of the East and West
  18. Knight Rose Croix
  19. Pontiff
  20. Master of the Symbolic Lodge
  21. Noachite or Prussian Knight
  22. Knight of the Royal Axe or Prince of Libanus
  23. Chief of the Tabernacle
  24. Prince of the Tabernacle
  25. Knight of the Brazen Serpent
  26. Prince of Mercy
  27. Knight Commander of the Temple
  28. Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept
  29. Scottish Knight of St. Andrew
  30. Knight Kadosh
  31. Inspector Inquisitor
  32. Master of the Royal Secret
  33. Sovereign Grand Inspector General

ETA: Let me know if these are wrong. Thanks.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 05-09-2013 at 11:50..
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:47   #461
Batesmotel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...eemasonry.html

degrees of American freemasonry:
  1. Apprentice
  2. Fellow-craft
  3. Master
  4. Secret Master
  5. Perfect Master
  6. Intimate Secretary
  7. Provost and Judge
  8. Intendant[sic] of the Building
  9. Elu of the Nine
  10. Elu of the Fifteen
  11. Elu of the Twelve
  12. Master Architect
  13. Royal Arch of Solomon
  14. Perfect Elu
  15. Knight of the East
  16. Prince of Jerusalem
  17. Knight of the East and West
  18. Knight Rose Croix
  19. Pontiff
  20. Master of the Symbolic Lodge
  21. Noachite or Prussian Knight
  22. Knight of the Royal Axe or Prince of Libanus
  23. Chief of the Tabernacle
  24. Prince of the Tabernacle
  25. Knight of the Brazen Serpent
  26. Prince of Mercy
  27. Knight Commander of the Temple
  28. Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept
  29. Scottish Knight of St. Andrew
  30. Knight Kadosh
  31. Inspector Inquisitor
  32. Master of the Royal Secret
  33. Sovereign Grand Inspector General

ETA: Let me if these are wrong. Thanks.
#1 These are for the southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. Northern jurisdiction is slightly different.

#2 Whats your point?
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:53   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...eemasonry.html

degrees of American freemasonry:
  1. Apprentice
  2. Fellow-craft
  3. Master
  4. Secret Master
  5. Perfect Master
  6. Intimate Secretary
  7. Provost and Judge
  8. Intendant[sic] of the Building
  9. Elu of the Nine
  10. Elu of the Fifteen
  11. Elu of the Twelve
  12. Master Architect
  13. Royal Arch of Solomon
  14. Perfect Elu
  15. Knight of the East
  16. Prince of Jerusalem
  17. Knight of the East and West
  18. Knight Rose Croix
  19. Pontiff
  20. Master of the Symbolic Lodge
  21. Noachite or Prussian Knight
  22. Knight of the Royal Axe or Prince of Libanus
  23. Chief of the Tabernacle
  24. Prince of the Tabernacle
  25. Knight of the Brazen Serpent
  26. Prince of Mercy
  27. Knight Commander of the Temple
  28. Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept
  29. Scottish Knight of St. Andrew
  30. Knight Kadosh
  31. Inspector Inquisitor
  32. Master of the Royal Secret
  33. Sovereign Grand Inspector General

ETA: Let me if these are wrong. Thanks.
You are wrong.

There are only 3 degrees in Freemasonry.

In an appendent body known as Scottish Rite, there are 33 degrees.

For all your bluster about inner and outer this and who knows what...

Once you are a 3rd degree Mason. If you choose to join Scottish Rite (and there are other choices you can make), you earn through the 32nd degree in a long weekend. In other words, everyone who joins the Scottish Rite is a 32 degree. Just like everyone who joins a Yacht Club might get the title "Captain"...even though to people who dont know any better, they could say "look at all these ranks before Captain...."

To get the 33rd degree, depending on where you live, it is either based on time or contribution.

Once again, no matter what you claim, I am here to state, you, no matter how hard you believe it, dont know what you are talking about.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:54   #463
Peace Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
#1 These are for the southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. Northern jurisdiction is slightly different.

#2 Whats your point?
#1) Thanks for the clarification.

#2) I was responding to AAragon77.
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"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:57   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
#2) I was responding to AAragon77.
Thanks
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:58   #465
Peace Warrior
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Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
You are wrong.

There are only 3 degrees in Freemasonry.

In an appendent body known as Scottish Rite, there are 33 degrees.

For all your bluster about inner and outer this and who knows what...

Once you are a 3rd degree Mason. If you choose to join Scottish Rite (and there are other choices you can make), you earn through the 32nd degree in a long weekend. In other words, everyone who joins the Scottish Rite is a 32 degree. Just like everyone who joins a Yacht Club might get the title "Captain"...even though to people who dont know any better, they could say "look at all these ranks before Captain...."

To get the 33rd degree, depending on where you live, it is either based on time or contribution.

Once again, no matter what you claim, I am here to state, you, no matter how hard you believe it, dont know what you are talking about.
I admitted as much; however, the point you and I were going over was that be it the scotish rite, yorkish whatever, heck, "whatever rite," or even the European flavor(s), masonryIS a luciferian doctrine. Period.
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" - Josey Wales
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:04   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
I admitted as much; however, the point you and I were going over was that be it the scotish rite, yorkish whatever, heck, "whatever rite," or even the European flavor(s), masonryIS a luciferian doctrine. Period.
And again, I am not a Christian, so I have no dog in that hunt other than to say:

I dont even believe in such things, so why would I join a group that did?

You are wrong

And for a man he keeps saying how much you know about all this, you are wrong over and over again.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:47   #467
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