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Old 05-02-2013, 20:24   #176
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Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
Modern Mustangs, be the Cobra, Saleen, whatever...just end up being "used mustang" after a number of years. I feel as though the GT500 will probably trend that way.

I like it (I think the last two generation retro Mustangs are solid home runs) but I dont trust the market at all.
Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:27   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moeman View Post
Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:35   #178
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Especially when the next gen is so much more radical looking...

The Okie Corral
Radical is not the first word I'd choose to describe the new Corvette

I find that the cars that age well are more organic look/curvy rather than angular. For example a Lamborghini Countach looks dated, while the Miura still is a classic design. Same with some of the older Ferrari's vs. the Testarossa and a lot of the other stuff they are coming out with now. I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:38   #179
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For the price of a new Vette, I'll take any midyear over a new one.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:43   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moeman View Post
Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...
No matter how cool a new(er) Mustang is....it is still a Mustang. You pull up to the stop light and there will be 8 of them there. That is for SURE one place it has the vette beat.

While upsetting, it seems like people who buy the high end Mustangs do so only to be king of the Mustang world. (which I get)...because that is all that kind of Royalty is good foor. It doesnt carry much weight beyond that. A Mustang is an entry level performance car (and a damned good one at that). It cant overcome that truth.

Again, stone cold home run and a wicked value...just not what I would pick out of the exact three choices I was respondiing too (911, Vette, GT500) I still say, given those three exact choices, I would pick the Vette. That doesnt make it the right choice, just my choice.
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:49   #181
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Originally Posted by JMS View Post
Radical is not the first word I'd choose to describe the new Corvette

I find that the cars that age well are more organic look/curvy rather than angular. For example a Lamborghini Countach looks dated, while the Miura still is a classic design. Same with some of the older Ferrari's vs. the Testarossa and a lot of the other stuff they are coming out with now. I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).
I cant argue your opinion and in some ways I agree but there are some angular cars that are very classic. A number of Rolls Royces come to mind.


The Okie Corral
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:55   #182
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I know which one I'd rather have. While R&R have a presence, I can't recall any that stylistically are memorable.
The Okie Corral
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Old 05-02-2013, 20:59   #183
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I cant argue your opinion and in some ways I agree but there are some angular cars that are very classic. A number of Rolls Royces come to mind.
And there are a number of organic/curvy cars that did not age well...

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Old 05-02-2013, 21:04   #184
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And there are a number of organic/curvy cars that did not age well...

The Okie Corral
I suspect someone in GT drives one of these....

The Okie Corral

But tells people he drives one of these:

The Okie Corral
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Old 05-02-2013, 21:05   #185
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I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).
That was (and still is) one awesome looking car. First one I saw in real life was a light purple one. I would even take a light purple one..

Edit

This color:

The Okie Corral
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Old 05-02-2013, 21:11   #186
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That was (and still is) one awesome looking car. First one I saw in real life was a light purple one. I would even take a light purple one..

Edit

This color:

The Okie Corral
I believe the purple ones from the factory were the SE30's and SE30 "Jotas". I don't recall any other model in that color.

What they have been coming out with recently is horrible. The Aventador seems to be angular and organic at the same time and the new limited edition Veneno looks like something a kid would draw. I miss the days of Bertone, Pinianfarina, Gandini, etc In addition I think they really lost something special when they did away with the gated shifters, they really were a thing of beauty.

BTW I saw this one for sale years ago at Manhattan Motorcars, Diablo VS.
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Old 05-02-2013, 21:54   #187
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Can't we all just get along? I always liked the Cord and it's a combination of curvy and angular.

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The Okie Corral

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Old 05-03-2013, 04:21   #188
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To me a sports car is lightweight, not overburdened with electronics (DBW, traction control, etc.), and can push your body hard in any direction at any time(with excellent braking, acceleration, and grip). There are many cars that can do the latter, but the lightweight thing is harder to find. Driving a heavy car, like a mustang, just doesnt offer the feel that I desire in a sports car.

As far as being collectable, I think rarity/exclusivity, timeless design(which is very subjective), and driving experience(how you feel while driving) are the 3 most important determining factors.

So, in combining those 2, you can narrow down your list. Any mustang at this point in time will not be collectable. There are simply way too many produced. They are sports cars to some, but to me are straight line dragsters. They don't offer the lightweight or the grip. I'm not a domestic car guy, but I will admit that the new Corvettes have made vast improvements in weight reduction and cornering ability. I would also argue that anyone who complains about the harsh ride in a sports car should not be driving a sports car, and that the new higher end corvettes (ZR1, Z06) don't only make pretentions of being world class, they are world class.

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Old 05-03-2013, 06:45   #189
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collector: DeLorean or other odd-ball types. DeLorean was only in production for two years.

real sports car: used Cobra kit car. Should be able to get a nice one for close to $45K. Older corvette, maybe get an anniversary edition for more collector value.

One is'nt a real sports car, the other will never be a collector. The corvette could be collectable if it's all stock. For both in one vehicle I'd agree with an older Porshe or Ferrari in that price range.
A friend of mine has a DeLorean. The engine can be fixed by anyone who can repair a Volvo and most other parts are from different cars (I think the brakes are from Jaguar for instance) but the body is a different story. If you ding or dent it you are in a hurt as there is no way to repair it without removing the entire dent.

One of the front fenders (left I think) is really hard to get as I believe the original die is now in the ocean somewhere (apparently Irish labor strikes get pretty violent). Personally I would replace the bolts mounting it with tamper-proof fasteners.

I would bet someone is making aftermarket ones now though.

And then there is the whole problem with the Flux Capacitor....
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:47   #190
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if you ever complain about a harsh ride... take a drive in a real racecar... THAT'S hard.


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Old 05-03-2013, 08:16   #191
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A friend of mine has a DeLorean. The engine can be fixed by anyone who can repair a Volvo and most other parts are from different cars (I think the brakes are from Jaguar for instance) but the body is a different story. If you ding or dent it you are in a hurt as there is no way to repair it without removing the entire dent.

One of the front fenders (left I think) is really hard to get as I believe the original die is now in the ocean somewhere (apparently Irish labor strikes get pretty violent). Personally I would replace the bolts mounting it with tamper-proof fasteners.

I would bet someone is making aftermarket ones now though.

And then there is the whole problem with the Flux Capacitor....
The Okie Corral

You can get your new (old) DeLorean here.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:18   #192
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some rolls royces are more memorable than others.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:26   #193
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a corvette I like
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:39   #194
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The Okie Corral

You can get your new (old) DeLorean here.
I noticed there is no price and no stock of the LH front fender.

Supposedly there is a company in Texas that can fix Delorean body panels.

The guy basically has a bunch of Pakistani knife makers who hammer out the dents (as I was told).
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:47   #195
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I noticed there is no price and no stock of the LH front fender.

Supposedly there is a company in Texas that can fix Delorean body panels.

The guy basically has a bunch of Pakistani knife makers who hammer out the dents (as I was told).
This one has a price ~ $49,500.

The Okie Corral
http://delorean.com/delorean/6226/

For sh1ts and giggles, I just tried a live chat with their parts department to ask about your fender - there was nobody home.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:24   #196
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This one has a price ~ $49,500.

The Okie Corral
http://delorean.com/delorean/6226/

For sh1ts and giggles, I just tried a live chat with their parts department to ask about your fender - there was nobody home.
I appreciate that.

My friend has a thing for old European cars. He has an old Mercedes Diesel he drives quite a bit - in fact I think it is (was) his daily driver.

I checked Wikipedia and there is no mention of a violent labor riot at DeLorean so that could have just been a bunch of BS I heard.

I did learn that the last ones to come to the US were sold by the same company that owns Big Lots.

Too bad the body is expensive to maintain because I think you could make something REALLY cool out of it (not saying the DeLorean isn't cool already) with some more horsepower.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:29   #197
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While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...
When was the last time you were in a Mustang? The current cars have vastly improved interiors. Granted, they're not quite BMW levels, but neither is the cost of ownership/maintenance/repairs.

I agree that current Mustangs are not destined to be (in the short-term, like 15-20 years) collector cars. But, with time, all cars become collectable if they're old enough to be rare by the attrition of years, and in good condition.

As far as "World Class", the current Mustang is the performance equivalent of a current M3, so that's a great performance leve to be at, at 2/3rds or less the price.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:35   #198
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To me a sports car is lightweight, not overburdened with electronics (DBW, traction control, etc.), and can push your body hard in any direction at any time(with excellent braking, acceleration, and grip). There are many cars that can do the latter, but the lightweight thing is harder to find. Driving a heavy car, like a mustang, just doesnt offer the feel that I desire in a sports car.

They are sports cars to some, but to me are straight line dragsters. They don't offer the lightweight or the grip.
Just to clarify, if you haven't driven a current Brembo PP/Track Pack 5.0 Mustang.

No, they're not going to drive like a Miata, S2000, BRZ, or any sub-3kLB true sports car. But they brake and grip very, very well. Do they feel light? No, as you mentioned, they are a bit heavy at 3600lbs. Still, lighter than a Camaro or M3.

They are immense fun to drive, with 0 under-steer, incredible grip, and face-planting brakes. Plus, ya know, there's that motor.

Collector car? No. Great car to drive? Yes.

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Old 05-03-2013, 09:38   #199
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When the new Mustangs get IRS then I can begin to take them seriously.


A guy I worked with three years ago has a Diablo.
In great condition, black on black.
Damn thing will blow your mind when he opens it up..


He's a really smart guy, a software engineer, but not a motorhead.
And, he doesn't understand automotive electrical systems.
He lives in a small town in central Virginia, and the nearest service facility capable of doing any service to a Diablo is 2 hours distant.

The car began to have fuel management/ignition problems soon after he purchased it.
Good thing he makes good money and is single with no dependents..


.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:47   #200
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When the new Mustangs get IRS then I can begin to take them seriously.
It's coming. Next spring, the new Mustang will have IRS.

I hope it loses 500Lbs too.
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