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Old 05-01-2013, 10:14   #101
M&P15T
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In a way it does.

Every choice you make says something about you. Be it the car you drive or the type of soap you use to how you treat your dog.....and what that says about you is how others see it.

That may or may not matter to someone but it is still true and it can damned well have an effect on your life.
We're not talking about "say(ing) something about you", we're talking about what truly defines a person.

A car? Nope....only *********s defines themself by their car.

A car does not make you anything. Getting behind the wheel of a Gremlin or a 458 Italia does nothing to change the basic nature of a human being.

Hence, a person that is shallow and materialistic, will still be shallow and materialistic behind the wheel of whatever car they happen to find themself behind.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:16   #102
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I am ready to buy a sports car. I want this car to be timeless
Air-cooled 911.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:23   #103
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
We're not talking about "say(ing) something about you", we're talking about what truly defines a person.

A car? Nope....only *********s defines themself by their car.

A car does not make you anything. Getting behind the wheel of a Gremlin or a 458 Italia does nothing to change the basic nature of a human being.

Hence, a person that is shallow and materialistic, will still be shallow and materialistic behind the wheel of whatever car they happen to find themself behind.
I disagree.

People react and treat you in a way based on how you present yourself. I dont think we need to have an argument about that.

How people react and treat us often dictates how we act.

I.E. people will treat us in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in. Thus we will react in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in.

Yes, I understand that how we react will be based on what kind of person we already are. (and you touched on that) My point is, the choices we make (in this case what kind of car we drive) will influence what kind of person the world sees.

To some degree, even if mild, over a long period of time, there would be an observable difference in a persons personality if he drove a Rolls Royce over an Altima. Even if it is passive (because of how we react to the world reacting around us) it is still a change.

We cant summarily dismiss that. The choices we make are what cumulatively defines us, even if any given choice defines us in a small way.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:41   #104
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I disagree.

People react and treat you in a way based on how you present yourself. I dont think we need to have an argument about that.

How people react and treat us often dictates how we act.

I.E. people will treat us in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in. Thus we will react in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in.

Yes, I understand that how we react will be based on what kind of person we already are. (and you touched on that) My point is, the choices we make (in this case what kind of car we drive) will influence what kind of person the world sees.

To some degree, even if mild, over a long period of time, there would be an observable difference in a persons personality if he drove a Rolls Royce over an Altima. Even if it is passive (because of how we react to the world reacting around us) it is still a change.

We cant summarily dismiss that. The choices we make are what cumulatively defines us, even if any given choice defines us in a small way.
You're trying to give one of your lectures. As ususal, you're jumping into a conversation, and trying to change the subject.

I'm not talking about how other people view a singular person, or about presentation, or impressions. I'm talking about the basics of human beings, their nature.

Stop trying to pontificate on everything. It's tiring watching you stumble over yourself while you try to impress yourself.

Last edited by M&P15T; 05-01-2013 at 11:01..
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:50   #105
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Air-cooled 911.
This is why I said early in the thread a 993.

Best of the aircooled 911s and already starting to appreciate. Not many cars from the mid and late 90s can say they are starting to go up in value.

They are very limited numbers and are the last "real" 911s built.

When I am actually home more, I am thinking of buying one even though for the same money I could get a faster vehicle, this will be a car that wont lose money.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:01   #106
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This is why I said early in the thread a 993.

Best of the aircooled 911s and already starting to appreciate. Not many cars from the mid and late 90s can say they are starting to go up in value.

They are very limited numbers and are the last "real" 911s built.

When I am actually home more, I am thinking of buying one even though for the same money I could get a faster vehicle, this will be a car that wont lose money.
Agreed. I have been browsing 993 Turbos lately and am shocked to see what they are still selling for. There's a guy in my area with a really cool purple one with nice exhaust and probably a few other items. It moves, and it sounds great. Unfortunately those are a little over the OP's budget.

A used Vette or Viper, the highest model you can get in your budget, would be great choices. As others have said though, what you are looking for in a car will really be the deciding factor. Your budget is wide enough to give you a great amount of options.

Here's a few options to get you started:
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/used/ch...02&prcId=28642

Edit: Just checked cars.com now for fun - 993 Turbo S's are listed from $2-300k...is that accurate?!

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:09   #107
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
You're trying to give one of your lectures. As ususal, you're jumping into a conversation, and trying to change the subject.

I'm not talking about how other people view a singular person, or about presentation, or impressions. I'm talking about the basics of human beings, their nature.

Stop trying to pontificate on everything. It's tiring watching you stumble over yourself while you try to impress yourself.
The bold part...that is pretty much what I said.

Did you impress yourself?
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:14   #108
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The bold part...that is pretty much what I said.

Did you impress yourself?
I didn't try.

Maybe you could try doing the same....it would be a breath of fresh air to see one of your posts that is but a few simple words, and not endless bloviating.

It's obvious you're impressed with yourself, isn't that enough?
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:15   #109
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Originally Posted by 07 LMB Z06 View Post
Agreed. I have been browsing 993 Turbos lately and am shocked to see what they are still selling for. There's a guy in my area with a really cool purple one with nice exhaust and probably a few other items. It moves, and it sounds great. Unfortunately those are a little over the OP's budget.

<<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Edit: Just checked cars.com now for fun - 993 Turbo S's are listed from $2-300k...is that accurate?!
There are some 993s that are within the 45k he mentioned.

I even found one 993 turbo for $66k.

But that $200-300k is what I have seen prices of Turbo S... remember..very limited production.

The other very valuable one of a 1993 911 RS America. It was a strippedout 911 that was sold a discount price that is now worth a lot more than a "normal" 911 with options.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:16   #110
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I didn't try.

Maybe you could try doing the same....it would be a breath of fresh air to see one of your posts that is but a few simple words, and not endless bloviating.

It's obvious you're impressed with yourself, isn't that enough?
I see, you are not going to challenge what I say, just tell us all how you feel about me.

That is understandable, but you are going to have to find someone else to have a purse fight with.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:18   #111
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I see, you are not going to challenge what I say, just tell us all how you feel about me.

That is understandable, but you are going to have to find someone else to have a purse fight with.
Correct, I'm not going to challenge what you posted. I've learned to stop feeding trolls....and that is how I view you.

Feeling ain't got nothin' to do with it.

Switch to PMs if you feel the need to continue, we've high-jacked this thread enough.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:22   #112
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There are some 993s that are within the 45k he mentioned.

I even found one 993 turbo for $66k.

But that $200-300k is what I have seen prices of Turbo S... remember..very limited production.

The other very valuable one of a 1993 911 RS America. It was a strippedout 911 that was sold a discount price that is now worth a lot more than a "normal" 911 with options.
You're right, non-Turbo 993's do fall within the OP's range. Those Turbo S's are cool, but not $200k+ cool (to me at least - not that I am shopping that price range anyway).
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:32   #113
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You're right, non-Turbo 993's do fall within the OP's range. Those Turbo S's are cool, but not $200k+ cool (to me at least - not that I am shopping that price range anyway).
People buying $200K 993 Turbo S are not buying them to drive..

Collectors cars that they hope will keep going up.

For a driver, the regular turbo is with some tuning is just as good.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:37   #114
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But that goes to the question of what does the OP REALLY want?

He said collector/sports car.

But maybe he just wants a fun toy as a driver? That is a much different search than a collector/sports car.

A car that will go up also..a Porsche 968. They have already started going up. Never be worth what a 993 (well, unless you happen to have a 968 Turbo RS.. but those are pretty spendy too...and there are only 4)

The Okie Corral
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:38   #115
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But that goes to the question of what does the OP REALLY want?

He said collector/sports car.

But maybe he just wants a fun toy as a driver? That is a much different search than a collector/sports car.

A car that will go up also..a Porsche 968. They have already started going up. Never be worth what a 993 (well, unless you happen to have a 968 Turbo RS.. but those are pretty spendy too...and there are only 4)

The Okie Corral
I think that the OP's description of "collector/sports car" is too vague.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:41   #116
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I think that the OP's description of "collector/sports car" is too vague.
I agree. What does the OP want to do with the car? Drive it? Garage Quenn? Road Race? Drag Race? Cars and Coffee? Street racing?
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:44   #117
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M&P15T, you're wrong. What you drive dictates, daily, how people react to you. I used to manage an antique car museum and we drove a number of different cars home. We could be in a late model divider window Cadillac factory limo and stop at a McDonalds. My daughter would be in the back seat giving the staff a rash of crap that I sure wouldn't tolerate and they would be jumping through their butts trying to please her.

The next night we could be in the Toyota Corolla company car and the reaction from the McDonald's would be "Yeah, what do you want?"

I've driven on the street cars a hundred years old, and Ferraris and Duesenbergs worth over a million dollars apiece and everything in between. Yes, what you are driving does make a difference. It shouldn't, but it does.

This is still part of the deviation from the original thread, but it seemed to apply.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:13   #118
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M&P15T, you're wrong. What you drive dictates, daily, how people react to you. I used to manage an antique car museum and we drove a number of different cars home. We could be in a late model divider window Cadillac factory limo and stop at a McDonalds. My daughter would be in the back seat giving the staff a rash of crap that I sure wouldn't tolerate and they would be jumping through their butts trying to please her.

The next night we could be in the Toyota Corolla company car and the reaction from the McDonald's would be "Yeah, what do you want?"

I've driven on the street cars a hundred years old, and Ferraris and Duesenbergs worth over a million dollars apiece and everything in between. Yes, what you are driving does make a difference. It shouldn't, but it does.

This is still part of the deviation from the original thread, but it seemed to apply.
That's not what I was saying. Please re-read my posts for clarity.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:14   #119
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I agree. What does the OP want to do with the car? Drive it? Garage Quenn? Road Race? Drag Race? Cars and Coffee? Street racing?
I'm thinking he just wants someting fun to drive that won't lose him a bunch of money, or cost him an arm & a leg to run/maintain.

I vote S2000 or Miata, and mods. Maybe a C6 or 968...and mods.

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:21   #120
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I'm thinking he just wants someting fun to drive that won't lose him a bunch of money, or cost him an arm & a leg to run/maintain.

I vote S2000 or Miata, and mods. Maybe a C6 or 968...and mods.
I am not a big honda fan. Much better than toyota.

But probably the dollar in total ownership price to fun ratio there is no car that can compete with the S2000
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:23   #121
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That's not what I was saying. Please re-read my posts for clarity.
We can all read your posts. You made an absolute statement. It has been shown that your absolute statement is not true. In both how people act and how people react...even if the change is small. That is also flat out part of the subject of this thread as we try to understand what the OP wants and why he wants it.


You also dont know what a troll is.

Lets see. I have real knowledge and a depth of experience on the subject matter. I contribute based on that. I enjoy the subject matter and I want to help the OP.

Again, we all get how you feel about me but you have not attacked my information, just me.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:47   #122
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We can all read your posts. You made an absolute statement. It has been shown that your absolute statement is not true. In both how people act and how people react...even if the change is small. That is also flat out part of the subject of this thread as we try to understand what the OP wants and why he wants it.


You also dont know what a troll is.

Lets see. I have real knowledge and a depth of experience on the subject matter. I contribute based on that. I enjoy the subject matter and I want to help the OP.

Again, we all get how you feel about me but you have not attacked my information, just me.
***SIGH***

The contention that I was discussing with another poster (before you jumped in, changing the subject to suit your view point) is that a car does not elementally change or define a person. This had NOTHING to do with how other people view a person based on what they drive. Your (unwanted) observations are precisely and specifically opposite to what I was opining on.

My contention was that driving a specific vehicle (for a true driving enthusiast) is about the pleasure one derives from the driving experience, NOT what other people think about what they drive.

Certainly, many people ARE more concerned with what/how other people view their vehicles. I find this shallow and stupid, but that's just my none-too-humble opinion.

Then you busted in with amature psychology, and standard observational fare, that anyone that has lived on this earth and experienced life long enough could post. Does driving a great car make you feel good? Sure. Could feeling good change your behavior and how you interact with the world around you on a temporary basis? Sure. That doesn't mean that the basic personality traits of a person changes. Anyone that can put two coherent thoughts together, knows that REAL positive changes, real positivity, would come from the hard work and effort one puts in to be able to drive what they like, and the confidence that comes from said work and effort/achievment. And THAT is where any real, lasting and positive elemental personal changes would come from.

Look, I get it. You want to have all the answers, and best observations. But nothing you've posted is all that interesting or worthy of considered debate. You are discussing a different topic than I, but can't stand that, because it doesn't support your need to be correct all the time.

Now, if you have more to say, PM me. This is exhausting, and we've de-railed this thread enough. If you want to continue debating this topic, start your own damned thread.

ETA: Everything you touched on; the perceptions of other people, changing behavioral interatcions based on perceptions, feeling positive about one's sense of self-efficacy based on what you drive.....it's all counter and supporting to my point that such considerations are shallow and meaningless.

The fact that you, of all people, brought those considerations to the fore-front, beat that drum so hard just to be right, simply serves to re-enforce my perceptions of people that care about such meaningless, trival concerns.

"Oooh, look at my car, I'm so cool!!"

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:55   #123
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My contention was that driving a specific vehicle (for a true driving enthusiast) is about the pleasure one derives from the driving experience, NOT what other people think about what they drive.
One could argue that a real car guy would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

And then going back to what kind of car...

Fast cars go down the straight aways fast...Fast drivers go around the corners fast....

Or some drivers look at a road race course as a series of dragstrips connected by corners...other view a bunch of corners connected by dragstrips...
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Old 05-01-2013, 13:31   #124
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One could argue that a real car guy would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

And then going back to what kind of car...

Fast cars go down the straight aways fast...Fast drivers go around the corners fast....

Or some drivers look at a road race course as a series of dragstrips connected by corners...other view a bunch of corners connected by dragstrips...
Yep.

It's all different ways of enjoying the driving experience.

I myself am thinking my next car will be much lighter, less powerful, and cheaper. Something like a BRZ/S2000, but I'm leaning heavily towards a Miata.....something about a convertable is just calling me.
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Old 05-01-2013, 13:37   #125
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Seriously....the open topped true sports car (light) sounds like something the OP should at least test drive. One doesn't need big power to enjoy the driving experience.

A used S2000, Miata, whatever.....at least get a test drive. Maybe a C6 vert?
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