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Old 04-19-2013, 20:41   #26
DanaT
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
In the Watertown incident, we know the BG was hiding in somebody's property. What we don't know is how many homeowners refused to let LE check, or (more likely) assured LE that no unauthorized person(s) was/were present, and the LEOs moved on to the next property.
And we know LE didnt find him. The search didnt work. A civilian found him after the lock down was lifted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us...nce/index.html
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:44   #27
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
Oh, good God. You know that's not what I'm talking about.

Even if those things were present, they wouldn't be in. Location capable of concealing a person.
But you have nothing to hide.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:45   #28
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I think I have discovered the solution! :upeyes

When the government knocks on your door and wants to do a search -

They are just trying to protect people - catch a dangerous killer -

Tell them OK - you can come on in and search all you want -

But grant me 100% immunity from prosecution for any and all things associated with the search --

Make it easy on them - have it written up before they even show up at your door.

Think they will agree to this simple condition?
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:47   #29
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Then TSA doesnt actually have consent if you cannot say no.

Consent implies you have the option to say no.
You can say no by not flying, take a boat to Europe (or where ever).
You do not have to go through TSA.
Drive to Canada & fly from there.
You do not have to go through TSA.
Your job may require it, then quit your job.
You do not have to go through TSA.
You can say no by not going through TSA
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:47   #30
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
Oh, good God. You know that's not what I'm talking about.

Even if those things were present, they wouldn't be in. Location capable of concealing a person.
And yet that is where you are wrong with the whole theory..

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-warrant.shtml
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:48   #31
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Originally Posted by Trapped_in_Kali View Post
You can say no by not flying, take a boat to Europe (or where ever).
You do not have to go through TSA.
Drive to Canada & fly from there.
You do not have to go through TSA.
Your job may require it, then quit your job.
You do not have to go through TSA.
You can say no by not going through TSA
So why should I have to relinquish my RIGHT to use airspace for travel?

Edit..I will head this off at the pass to those who say there is no right to fly.

Read 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.

Last edited by DanaT; 04-19-2013 at 20:49..
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:49   #32
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But you have nothing to hide.
Once again...the original post spoke if that being a legitimate phrase to use in certain circumstances...not as a blanket policy.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:50   #33
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
Such overbearing authority incidents are quite uncommon, at least in this country.
They are uncommon in this country because the applicable protections are usually enforced, even for people who know they have nothing to hide. Letting such actions slide because you have nothing to hide actually degrades your protections, even if you have nothing to hide.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:51   #34
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We are innocent until proven guilty. "I've got nothing to hide..." shifts the burden onto you to prove your innocence. Not a mindset we should get comfortable accepting.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:51   #35
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" I have nothing to hide, you may investigate anything that trips your fancy within plain sight, without inconveniencing me."
Once you consent to a search, I seriously doubt you can set limitations like "you may only look at items within plain sight".
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:52   #36
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i don't THINK i have anything to hide, but i'm not 110% sure thanks to the thousands of asinine laws governing every little aspect of life so i'd prefer to not give the nice officers a chance to find something i just flat out didn't know was illegal.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:54   #37
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We are innocent until proven guilty. "I've got nothing to hide..." shifts the burden onto you to prove your innocence. Not a mindset we should get comfortable accepting.
This is about as clear as it can get.

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Old 04-19-2013, 20:55   #38
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
Once again...the original post spoke if that being a legitimate phrase to use in certain circumstances...not as a blanket policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
When it is a one time concession, you truly do have nothing to hide, and allowing the search serves a greater good (whether it be the continued search for a fugitive, your convenience, or something else), there is no harm in going along.
It only takes a one time concession to ruin your life. Mislabeled pain medication can land you in prison.

And keep in mind what I saw on TV with the searches today. Many LE had helmet cams that were recording everything in the houses they went into...
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:59   #39
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The only important issue is whether they have a legal right to search. I couldn't care less if you don't mind them searching your house.
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:16   #40
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Well...I opened a can of worms I clearly wasn't prepared to cook. Have fun with this one if you choose to continue it. I'm done.
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:16   #41
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
And we know LE didnt find him. The search didnt work. A civilian found him after the lock down was lifted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us...nce/index.html
That's not quite accurate. The whole reason this kid was reduced to hiding under a tarp in a boat in the first place was because he couldn't simply take someone at gunpoint and hole up in their house for a few days to lick his wounds.

The house-to-house search forced him to stay mobile and use whatever cover he could find at hand...and that eventually got him caught.
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:28   #42
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
And we know LE didnt find him. The search didnt work. A civilian found him after the lock down was lifted.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us...nce/index.html

And if LE had decided from the start not to have any search because it would be unproductive, would this evening's result where the BG was found hiding in the boat still have happened?
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:43   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
I think I have discovered the solution! :upeyes

When the government knocks on your door and wants to do a search -

They are just trying to protect people - catch a dangerous killer -

Tell them OK - you can come on in and search all you want -

But grant me 100% immunity from prosecution for any and all things associated with the search --

Make it easy on them - have it written up before they even show up at your door.

Think they will agree to this simple condition?
Oh damn
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:48   #44
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
Second of all...just because you know nobody is in your house doesn't mean anybody else does. In that situation, it serves the greater good more to let them verify the wanted person is not there. Not doing so places doubt, and possibly ties up resources watching the house you wouldn't let them into.
So, if I tell the police that I've been here for the last 8 hours and the person they're looking for isn't in my house, they don't believe me?

Why should I believe them when they tell me why they want to search?
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:53   #45
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It's plenty of my concern when someone holds up a search for a dangerous person because they are afraid the police might find their embarrassing stash of porn. It's your right to refuse. I support that right, but I think you're a selfish idiot for exercising it.

You may think I'm a sheep for surrendering my rights in certain situations, which is a right of yours as well. Based on posts I've seen from you in the past, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.
If I refuse I'm not holding up the search. I've already told them he isn't in the house. They can move on.

You do whatever you want with your rights. Let them search.
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:53   #46
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So, if I tell the police that I've been here for the last 8 hours and the person they're looking for isn't in my house, they don't believe me?

Why should I believe them when they tell me why they want to search?
Not so much that they don't believe you. It's more that they know a desperate, armed, cop and child murderer is on the loose in the immediate neighborhood and he could very well be sitting in your back bedroom with your wife and kids, threatening to blow their heads off if you don't tell the cops to take a hike.
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Old 04-19-2013, 21:56   #47
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That's not quite accurate. The whole reason this kid was reduced to hiding under a tarp in a boat in the first place was because he couldn't simply take someone at gunpoint and hole up in their house for a few days to lick his wounds.

The house-to-house search forced him to stay mobile and use whatever cover he could find at hand...and that eventually got him caught.
Really? Very interesting. I was unaware they interviewed him and the details leaked out already.
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Old 04-19-2013, 22:00   #48
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Really? Very interesting. I was unaware they interviewed him and the details leaked out already.
Funny you didn't make any such comment when DanaT stated as fact that the search failed...

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Old 04-19-2013, 22:01   #49
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Really? Very interesting. I was unaware they interviewed him and the details leaked out already.
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Old 04-19-2013, 22:06   #50
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Like i said in the other thread, I don't talk to police. If you don't have anything, they may find something, or say they saw something. You want to go up against them in court and convince a jury that the cop is wrong and you are right?

Last edited by hpracing007; 04-19-2013 at 22:07..
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