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Old 04-19-2013, 19:50   #1
Annhl8rX
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"I've got nothing to hide..."

That phrase gets a bad rap around here. The thing is, it's a completely reasonable thing to say in a lot of situations. As long as it's done on a case by case basis, you're not "surrendering to the nanny state", "letting your rights be trampled", or any of the other catchphrases that float around here.

If you're talking about check points, gun registration, involuntary searches during traffic stops, or something else that requires surrendering your ability to refuse I definitely, I agree that it is a stupid thing to say.

When it is a one time concession, you truly do have nothing to hide, and allowing the search serves a greater good (whether it be the continued search for a fugitive, your convenience, or something else), there is no harm in going along.

I know there's nothing illegal in my house. If a dangerous person were on the loose in my neighborhood and the police wanted to search, I'd have no problem with it. If you would refuse simply on principle, that's your right. You're a fool to exercise it, though.

My two cents. Feel free to disagree.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:53   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
That phrase gets a bad rap around here. The thing is, it's a completely reasonable thing to say in a lot of situations. As long as it's done on a case by case basis, you're not "surrendering to the nanny state", "letting your rights be trampled", or any of the other catchphrases that float around here.

If you're talking about check points, gun registration, involuntary searches during traffic stops, or something else that requires surrendering your ability to refuse I definitely, I agree that it is a stupid thing to say.

When it is a one time concession, you truly do have nothing to hide, and allowing the search serves a greater good (whether it be the continued search for a fugitive, your convenience, or something else), there is no harm in going along.

I know there's nothing illegal in my house. If a dangerous person were on the loose in my neighborhood and the police wanted to search, I'd have no problem with it. If you would refuse simply on principle, that's your right. You're a fool to exercise it, though.

My two cents. Feel free to disagree.
See. Like this. Calling someone a fool for refusing a search.


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Old 04-19-2013, 19:55   #3
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See. Like this. Calling someone a fool for refusing a search.


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That's a blanket statement that doesn't accurately reflect what I said.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:56   #4
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" I have nothing to hide, you may investigate anything that trips your fancy within plain sight, without inconveniencing me."
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:56   #5
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I, actually, have nothing to hide.

Therefore, I don't mind the TSA violating every right that I inherited.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:00   #6
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I, actually, have nothing to hide.

Therefore, I don't mind the TSA violating every right that I inherited.
If you don't mind it and consent to it, it's not violating anything. That's the whole point.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
That phrase gets a bad rap around here. The thing is, it's a completely reasonable thing to say in a lot of situations. As long as it's done on a case by case basis, you're not "surrendering to the nanny state", "letting your rights be trampled", or any of the other catchphrases that float around here.

If you're talking about check points, gun registration, involuntary searches during traffic stops, or something else that requires surrendering your ability to refuse I definitely, I agree that it is a stupid thing to say.

When it is a one time concession, you truly do have nothing to hide, and allowing the search serves a greater good (whether it be the continued search for a fugitive, your convenience, or something else), there is no harm in going along.

I know there's nothing illegal in my house. If a dangerous person were on the loose in my neighborhood and the police wanted to search, I'd have no problem with it. If you would refuse simply on principle, that's your right. You're a fool to exercise it, though.

My two cents. Feel free to disagree.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:00   #8
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:01   #9
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I have all sorts of stuff to hide. Not because it's illegal, but because it's nobody's damn business but my own.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:02   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
That's a blanket statement that doesn't accurately reflect what I said.
It's none of your concern if or why someone exercises their rights.


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Old 04-19-2013, 20:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
That's a blanket statement that doesn't accurately reflect what I said.
I would say it is pretty accurate.

"If a dangerous person were on the loose in my neighborhood and the police wanted to search, I'd have no problem with it. If you would refuse simply on principle, that's your right. You're a fool to exercise it, though."

I think you referring to the fact he left out the first sentence of this. However, you are saying that a person that refuses is a fool. It was a pretty blanket statement on your part. If I have controlled access to my house, and so know said dangerous person is not in it, there is no reason for me to allow them to search inside my house. Would I let them search out where I had not been in control of the access? Very likely.

If you feel a need to re-qualify your statement, go ahead. If not, CF has you dead to rights.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:14   #12
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It's none of your concern if or why someone exercises their rights.


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It's plenty of my concern when someone holds up a search for a dangerous person because they are afraid the police might find their embarrassing stash of porn. It's your right to refuse. I support that right, but I think you're a selfish idiot for exercising it.

You may think I'm a sheep for surrendering my rights in certain situations, which is a right of yours as well. Based on posts I've seen from you in the past, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:18   #13
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I would say it is pretty accurate.

"If a dangerous person were on the loose in my neighborhood and the police wanted to search, I'd have no problem with it. If you would refuse simply on principle, that's your right. You're a fool to exercise it, though."

I think you referring to the fact he left out the first sentence of this. However, you are saying that a person that refuses is a fool. It was a pretty blanket statement on your part. If I have controlled access to my house, and so know said dangerous person is not in it, there is no reason for me to allow them to search inside my house. Would I let them search out where I had not been in control of the access? Very likely.

If you feel a need to re-qualify your statement, go ahead. If not, CF has you dead to rights.
First of all, nobody has anybody "dead to rights" in a discussion of opinion.

Second of all...just because you know nobody is in your house doesn't mean anybody else does. In that situation, it serves the greater good more to let them verify the wanted person is not there. Not doing so places doubt, and possibly ties up resources watching the house you wouldn't let them into.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:20   #14
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
If you don't mind it and consent to it, it's not violating anything. That's the whole point.
Is consent under duress consent?

If I hold a gun to a woman's head so she gives me consent to have sex with her, do I truly have consent?
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:21   #15
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The - go ahead and search - I have nothing to hind -

Is a variation of --

Why do you want to exercise your right to remain silent - IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE?

You MUST BE GUILTY if you don't want to talk to the government.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:23   #16
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
I know there's nothing illegal in my house.
Shall we bet on that?

Do you have any prescription pills not in their original bottle? As an example in a dispenser that you put them in for the day so you know if you forgot?

Do you have any tax returns in your house? You have made an illegal statement on them.

Do you have any goods in your house that you ordered over the internet / via mail order that you did not pay the use tax on?

You would be surprised what you have that you think is legal but by the letter of the law is illegal.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:25   #17
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In that situation, it serves the greater good more to let them verify the wanted person is not there.
Taking 100% of your pay check and distributing as needed for society serves the greater good more than you keeping the money. When are you going to start doing things for the greater good and turn over all your money to the govt?

After all, its all about the greater good.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:27   #18
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Originally Posted by Annhl8rX View Post
That phrase gets a bad rap around here. The thing is, it's a completely reasonable thing to say in a lot of situations. As long as it's done on a case by case basis, you're not "surrendering to the nanny state", "letting your rights be trampled", or any of the other catchphrases that float around here.

My s. Feel free to disagree.
Your having nothing to hide does not protect you from an imperious authority deciding it needs you to be guilty of something because it needs a good headline or a quick closure to an inconvenient circumstance. Such overbearing.authority incidents are common. Protection of the innocent from such intrusion is a valid social purpose.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:27   #19
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In the Watertown incident, we know the BG was hiding in somebody's property. What we don't know is how many homeowners refused to let LE check, or (more likely) assured LE that no unauthorized person(s) was/were present, and the LEOs moved on to the next property.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:27   #20
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Is consent under duress consent?

If I hold a gun to a woman's head so she gives me consent to have sex with her, do I truly have consent?
Nope...but you're the first person to bring that up.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:29   #21
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Your having nothing to hide does not protect you from an imperious authority deciding it needs you to be guilty of something because it needs a good headline or a quick closure to an inconvenient circumstance. Such overbearing.authority incidents are common. Protection of the innocent from such intrusion is a valid social purpose.
Such overbearing authority incidents are quite uncommon, at least in this country.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:30   #22
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Nope...but you're the first person to bring that up.
Then TSA doesnt actually have consent if you cannot say no.

Consent implies you have the option to say no.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:32   #23
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Taking 100% of your pay check and distributing as needed for society serves the greater good more than you keeping the money. When are you going to start doing things for the greater good and turn over all your money to the govt?

After all, its all about the greater good.
Yet that does harm to me personally. Allowing a search of my property which, I can be certain will result in the discovery of nothing, does does me no harm AND serves a greater good. Therein lies the difference.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:32   #24
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Then TSA doesnt actually have consent if you cannot say no.

Consent implies you have the option to say no.
You consent when you buy the ticket.
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Old 04-19-2013, 20:37   #25
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Shall we bet on that?

Do you have any prescription pills not in their original bottle? As an example in a dispenser that you put them in for the day so you know if you forgot?

Do you have any tax returns in your house? You have made an illegal statement on them.

Do you have any goods in your house that you ordered over the internet / via mail order that you did not pay the use tax on?

You would be surprised what you have that you think is legal but by the letter of the law is illegal.
Oh, good God. You know that's not what I'm talking about.

Even if those things were present, they wouldn't be in. Location capable of concealing a person.
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