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Old 04-19-2013, 18:03   #201
Phaze5ive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumpernator View Post
Suspect is in a boat in someones back yard.
I'm surprised that that boat hasn't mysterious caught fire yet.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:16   #202
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Originally Posted by Phaze5ive View Post
I'm surprised that that boat hasn't mysterious caught fire yet.
That would be a sweet sight, that loser running around on fire. Slowly passing into a pie of ash.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:17   #203
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I would not let them in, but I would offer to wait with them by the front door while they secure a search warrant.

"Cooperating" with the police usually means surrendering your civil rights.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:19   #204
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Originally Posted by maxmanta View Post
I would not let them in, but I would offer to wait with them by the front door while they secure a search warrant.

"Cooperating" with the police usually means surrendering your civil rights.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:20   #205
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There is nothing wrong with choosing to surrender a right but it should be just that: a choice

It's offensive to see some here criticizing others for not making the same choice.


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Old 04-19-2013, 18:30   #206
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
There is nothing wrong with choosing to surrender a right but it should be just that: a choice

It's offensive to see some here criticizing others for not making the same choice.


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Why should your choice be free from criticism? Just because you have the right to refuse a search doesn't mean others can't voice their opinion on the matter.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:35   #207
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
There hasn't been a hint in the news, or in the post you responded to, that these searches were without consent. In short, it is a choice. The rest, you seem to have made up, to give you something to complain about.
Maybe go back and read the OP

Assume you are a Watertown, MA resident and the cops come a-knocking looking for Mr. Jihad. Do you answer and if you do, would you let them in for a look around or would you assume your word is good enough? What if they insist and force their way in? Does a manhunt like this suspend your Constitutional 4th Amendment rights?

Discuss.



We agree about - it should be a choice.

I say it should be a choice because the government should not be able to just force their way into my home without a REAL good reason.

I am not complaining about it -

One reason the government should have a real good reason to kick my front door in and toss my home - is because many people will not like it and may resist - the result will be dead citizens.

Their "CRIME" wanting to be left alone so they could live their life.

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Old 04-19-2013, 18:38   #208
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Despite the math, it appears that the plan has worked.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:38   #209
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post

Dana, this is an art, not a science.
Sam, I respect you and your inputs. You seem to be one of the few "honest" ones.

What you say here is true, but it is exactly the opposite of not reacting on feelings. Art is almost all feeling and very little objective evidence.

I tend to agree with what you said in the rest of the post.

I believe that risk must always be balanced with reward. As an example, when guns are pointed at people, that is risk. Around Denver the police did this and stopped cars and searched. They removed many (probably close to 100) people from vehicles at gun point and hundcuffed them for hours. Even people who didnt fit the description of the bankrobber.

There is a point where it becomes unreasonable.

I think Bren hit on it well as have others.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:41   #210
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Originally Posted by tarpleyg View Post
This is what I was looking for. So, exigent circumstance would apply here even though the scope is so broad?

As for all the "I have nothing to hide" crowd...stop it already. It does not matter if you have nothing to hide or not. It's precisely that attitude that has gotten us this far with our rights.
Exigent circumstance would definitely apply if the cops had some minimal reason to believe that the terrorist was in that house.

If it is a dragnet, it is not so clear that they can claim an exception to the warrant requirement.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:43   #211
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Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
Why should your choice be free from criticism? Just because you have the right to refuse a search doesn't mean others can't voice their opinion on the matter.
I didn't say they can't. I said its offensive.


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Old 04-19-2013, 18:50   #212
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Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
Why should your choice be free from criticism? Just because you have the right to refuse a search doesn't mean others can't voice their opinion on the matter.
Ole CF is all about personal freedom, well except when he does agree with what you say.....then he gets offended.
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Old 04-19-2013, 18:56   #213
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
Despite the math, it appears that the plan has worked.
What was reported on TV right as this happened indicates the contrary (of course that is based upon what is heard and not necessarily true).

The live reporters said that the curfew was lifted and residents were going outside because they sweep hadnt worked. A resident at this point noticed something on his boat that wasnt supposed to be there: blood. The resident notified police.

Of course that is only what was reported and may or may not be valid BUT we do know that this happened AFTER the lock down was lifted.

If this is true, it seems the homeowners are better at noticing unusual things around their own house and more effective at finding unusual things...
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:00   #214
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Yes it's not like flooding the area with officers and having them as visible and active as possible forced the guy to ground and essentially prohibited him from leaving the area.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:07   #215
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
Despite the math, it appears that the plan has worked.
Reminds me of the statement the Boston Police Chief made after the bombing -

He was ask if they had handled the security for the event correctly.

He said - YES we did everything right -

We spent more money than ever before - we had more officers at the event than the prior year - 2X the number at the finish line (admitted they were looking for pick pockets not bombs)

He said without any doubt - his plan was a 100% absolute success.

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Old 04-19-2013, 19:24   #216
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Yes it's not like flooding the area with officers and having them as visible and active as possible forced the guy to ground and essentially prohibited him from leaving the area.
That is not the topic of the thread, now is it? Flooding the area with police is not entering homes. Maybe go back to post #1?
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Twice a week? 14 times a month?
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2x4=8, not 14.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:34   #217
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
I didn't say they can't. I said its offensive.


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So it's offensive to critisize someone exercising their 4th amendment rights, but not their 1st amendment rights.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:38   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
So it's offensive to critisize someone exercising their 4th amendment rights, but not their 1st amendment rights.
Of course not.

The rights are an individual's.


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Old 04-19-2013, 19:40   #219
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
That is not the topic of the thread, now is it? Flooding the area with police is not entering homes. Maybe go back to post #1?

I thought it might be evident when I suggested "being as active as possible, but perhaps not. Yes it's not like flooding the area with officers and having them as visible and active as possible including doing door to door searches/checks forced the guy to ground and essentially prohibited him from leaving the area.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:41   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarpleyg View Post
Does a manhunt like this suspend your Constitutional 4th Amendment rights?
Simple answer: NO!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:43   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
I thought it might be evident when I suggested "being as active as possible, but perhaps not. Yes it's not like flooding the area with officers and having them as visible and active as possible including doing door to door searches/checks forced the guy to ground and essentially prohibited him from leaving the area.
Door to door searches are far different than door to door checks. As it turns out neither checks nor searches found him


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Old 04-19-2013, 19:44   #222
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Of course not.

The rights are an individual's.


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So why would you find it offensive if one was to exercise their 1st amendment rights by criticizing someone who refused to assist in a manhunt by granting consent to search their property.
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:48   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
So why would you find it offensive if one was to exercise their 1st amendment rights by criticizing someone who refused to assist in a manhunt by granting consent to search their property.
The first amendment was written to protect a citizens right to speak out against their government. It has nothing to do with this situation. The comparison is absurd. I cannot jail or penalize a fellow citizen for saying something i dont like. Only the government can do that. Hence the reason for the first amendment.

If you are going to try to set a trap at least think it through.


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Old 04-19-2013, 19:48   #224
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Since I'm hypothetically living in Watertown, MA, I have been pacified and taxed to the point of not owning anything of interest to a LEO, so "C'mon in Y'all".
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Old 04-19-2013, 19:50   #225
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Under normal circumstances, I would not willingly let them in my house. But I think I'd make an exception if there was a terrorist at large in my neighborhood. I understand they need to check every nook and cranny to satisfy their search.
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