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Old 04-19-2013, 16:43   #161
TBO
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He knows that. This is just his disingenuous tact to poke LE.
Seen it many times before, and even if he had no knowledge/clue about what is required, it's been explained to him numerous times (with links to source).

He's not interested in reasoned discourse. Exercise of bias is all important.

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Old 04-19-2013, 16:45   #162
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[COLOR="Navy"]He knows that. This is just his disingenuous tact to poke LE.
Someone has selective reading syndrome.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:45   #163
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Absolutely correct. I am sorry your math skills dont allow you to get that number.
You can't bluff your way through math.
Try again.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:45   #164
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The court system doesn’t judge reasonableness based on probability of success.

I think you would have a pretty hard time convincing a judge that this did not constitute an exigent circumstance where obtaining a warrant for each and every property wouldn't take so much time as to creat a public safety issue.
That would only apply if it can be articulated that the property in question was the one housing the wanted person and spending the time to obtain a warrant would allow for escape or danger to occupants, etc. Exigent circumstances does not allow dragnet searches of properties otherwise protected by the 4th Amendment. I disagree that a judge would consider blanket searches of city blocks as "exigent circumstances". Short of a formal declaration of martial law...
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:48   #165
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Well, if they kick me out of the house, how do you expect me me to make them an Espresso? I dont make a very good latte nor espresso when a gun is pointed at me.

And the donuts. Sorry, when I have donuts in the house, I eat them. I dont save donuts for unexpected vistors.
In that case, I would suggest keeping a tape recorder and a tube of KY handy.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:49   #166
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double post
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:52   #167
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The court system doesn’t judge reasonableness based on probability of success.

I think you would have a pretty hard time convincing a judge that this did not constitute an exigent circumstance where obtaining a warrant for each and every property wouldn't take so much time as to creat a public safety issue.
Couldn't be that its that way BY DESIGN or anything, huh?
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:54   #168
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As a practical matter, you have no choice but to let the officers search. The situation is an exigent one and their actions would be deemed reasonable should it come to some sort of litigation.

To the GTers who would tell the officers they couldn't enter, well, should you ever be in that actual situation let us all know how it works out for you.
I disagree. To amount to an exigent circumstance that allows a warrantless entry, they'd have to see the guy enter the house (hot pursuit) or someone inside would have to be in imminent danger (or evidence in danger of imminent destruction). Just really, really wanting to catch somebody is not on of the exigent search circumstances that allows a warrantless search, no matter how much you want to catch the person.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:54   #169
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I figure if there is a search of this magnitude. They are on a man-hunt for a freak like this guy... if you aren't cooperating, you are just an A-hole.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:55   #170
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So then it is all feeling?
It's the totality of the circumstances.
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Old 04-19-2013, 16:58   #171
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Does anyone have any evidence to suggest any of these searches have been done without consent?
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:00   #172
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This is what needs to be considered. Though I ordinarily would not appreciate SWAT type individuals coming into my house without a warrant, considering the totality of circumstances, I would cooperate.


It’s not me they’re looking for. They’re looking for homicidal maniacs that have ruined hundreds of lives in the last few days, and have paralyzed a major city with their violence.
I see and understand what you are saying -

But I also think that during "emergency" situations - having the government follow the rules / protections is even MORE important.

Sorry we had to shoot up those families - they didn't want us to come into their homes - but we are the government and there was a guy on the lose that was real dangerous - they said no reason to search - but we didn't believe them.

If a person wants to allow them to search - I don't care - but that should be a choice -
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:02   #173
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Does anyone have any evidence to suggest any of these searches have been done without consent?
None that I've seen. But if they didn't overreaact based on a complete absence of information, this wouldn't be the GNG Lounge. Aside from the reliability of the media, most people here read no farther than a headline or thread title and make upo the rest of the story for themselves.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:04   #174
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I disagree. To amount to an exigent circumstance that allows a warrantless entry, they'd have to see the guy enter the house (hot pursuit) or someone inside would have to be in imminent danger (or evidence in danger of imminent destruction). Just really, really wanting to catch somebody is not on of the exigent search circumstances that allows a warrantless search, no matter how much you want to catch the person.
This guy didn't rob the liquor store...he committed an act of terrorism, numerous other crimes, and was reportedly wearing a suicide vest. He is still a HUGE threat to the public at large and was (and I bet still is) contained in a small section of town. You don't put on a suicide vest because you intend on laying low.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:05   #175
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The 4th doesn't require a warrant in all circumstances, if it did there would no reason to include the word unreasonable.
I realize that


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Old 04-19-2013, 17:05   #176
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But I also think that during "emergency" situations - having the government follow the rules / protections is even MORE important.

Sorry we had to shoot up those families - they didn't want us to come into their homes - but we are the government and there was a guy on the lose that was real dangerous - they said no reason to search - but we didn't believe them.
Kent State. Katrina. California shooter. Boston Bombing.

Once the **** hits the fan, your rights and protections mean absolutely dick. And its very unusual that the people who violate them are ever brought to justice.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:05   #177
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That would only apply if it can be articulated that the property in question was the one housing the wanted person and spending the time to obtain a warrant would allow for escape or danger to occupants, etc. Exigent circumstances does not allow dragnet searches of properties otherwise protected by the 4th Amendment. I disagree that a judge would consider blanket searches of city blocks as "exigent circumstances". Short of a formal declaration of martial law...
Then I guess any evidence of criminal acts they stumble upon will get tossed in court if they decide to press charges. I'm sure they're willing to live with that.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:06   #178
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So...despite your all's conversation on the Constitution.............and it's merits.

Wife thinks they lifted the shut down to flush the kid out. To many movies? thoughts?

Fox is on it 6:07 cst ....cnn is catching up...........
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:07   #179
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Sorry we had to shoot up those families - they didn't want us to come into their homes - but we are the government and there was a guy on the lose that was real dangerous - they said no reason to search - but we didn't believe them.
Because that's what's going on here.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:08   #180
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Breaking shooting- 2nd suspect may be down.
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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