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Old 04-19-2013, 15:16   #101
DanaT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
E
You want the police walking into your home with ARs while the terrorist is holding your family - at gun point - or with a bomb - in the back bedroom?

Think they will give a **** about your family while they are spraying bullets throughout your home?
This is the most dangerous situation.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:17   #102
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Try tracking two targets that look similar in the middle of a gunfight. Not to mention, let's be honest, law enforcement in this coubtry , especially now with budget cuts and personnel shortages, is just staying afloat most days in any place other than Mayberry. When my two coworkers were killed recently and we had a brief manhunt it took every available on duty officer in a county of 260k and there were still holes in our perimeter. If he had played out cool at the right moment he probably could have slipped it easy. I think he wanted suicide by cop. These turds in Boston want to kill again. Notice they didn't blow themselves up at the marathon. If not caught this guy will kill again. Every cop in the Boston area is operating under Osama ROE. Unless he is conspicuously surrendering he will likely be shot.

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So how much manpower was on site at the time he escaped?

10 - 25 - 50?

It just seems next to impossible for a guy to just leave the building - walk past a few dozen people - and leave the area.

Maybe they should have covered the back door.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:19   #103
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post

What would 12 people pulled at random off the street think is reasonable?
I dont think that 12 was a random number you picked. I suspect that 12 being the number of people on a jury and you picking 12 is more than a co-incidence.

So that said, what you are saying since it only takes one person to hang a jury, if more than 8.3% of the population thinks this is wrong, then it shouldnt be done.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:19   #104
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It's not math, it's not numbers, it is what has been explained to you numerous times.
If you're half as intellectual as you claim, all it can be is you are intentionally disingenuous, again.
If you're not capable of doing the "math", don't blame me or anyone else.

As your post contains a slight, I believe it's your usual troll/poke with no serious intention of entering reasoned discourse.

You have added noise, not signal.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:23   #105
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Numbers --

You need to look at the macro - not just micro door to door.

What is the % chance they catch him before he kills someone else if they

Go door to door

VS

Whatever else they can do.

Maybe going door to door is the only option or best option out of all bad options.

Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 15:24..
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:26   #106
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When my two coworkers were killed recently and we had a brief manhunt it took every available on duty officer in a county of 260k and there were still holes in our perimeter. If he had played out cool at the right moment he probably could have slipped it easy. I think he wanted suicide by cop. These turds in Boston want to kill again. Notice they didn't blow themselves up at the marathon. If not caught this guy will kill again. Every cop in the Boston area is operating under Osama ROE. Unless he is conspicuously surrendering he will likely be shot.
Assume that they have some level of training or have googled some.

With escape and evasion, it is widely known that the best chances of escape and evasion come early. Hunkering down means you will be caught. The hope of escape is to get out NOW.

So they are either really incompetent (which is doesnt seem) or he got out.

Also, E&E one generally relies on a "network" to help out.

So other than there is no contrary information, why would someone believe he didn't get out of the area?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:29   #107
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The amazing thing is he's been refuted and almost uncountable number of times, and never once validated in any of his LE themed campaigns, yet continues on like he's right on all counts.
Guess he does take being shown, repeatedly, just how wrong he is as he can't pass up mocking/tossing slights at me any chance he gets.

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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:30   #108
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Bunch of armchair QBs in here.

Boots on the ground are just as scared as the people trapped in their homes. Both sides do not know if the perp is near them with some type of explosive.

Searching house to house is the only feasible way to canvas the area.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:30   #109
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
It's not math, it's not numbers, it is what has been explained to you numerous times.
If you're half as intellectual as you claim, all it can be is you are intentionally disingenuous, again.
If you're not capable of doing the "math", don't blame me or anyone else.

As your post contains a slight, I believe it's your usual troll/poke with no serious intention of entering reasoned discourse.

You have added noise, not signal.

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So, you have nothing but feelings?

You cannot show objective evidence and hard numbers. I was once again correct.

I doubt you would say a doctor that had a 10% success rate was reasonable when operating. So, yes, numbers matter.

So, tell us, what number is reasonable when dealing with a random trial?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:31   #110
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
You are asking for thinking in an arena ruled by feeling.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
Bunch of armchair QBs in here.

Boots on the ground are just as scared as the people trapped in their homes. Both sides do not know if the perp is near them with some type of explosive.

Searching house to house is the only feasible way to canvas the area.
Fear is nothing but a feeling.

So you are saying they are acting out of fear and on feelings?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:32   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Numbers --

You need to look at the macro - not just micro door to door.

What is the % chance they catch him before he kills someone else if they

Go door to door

VS

Whatever else they can do.

Maybe going door to door is the only option or best option out of all bad options.
I alluded to this in my first post.

What is a possible outcome of not doing a house to house search?

Could someone be held hostage and the police could have discovered this during a house search?

Could said hostages be murdered if the search was not conducted?

Could police be sued for failing to search when they had the resources to do so?


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Old 04-19-2013, 15:32   #112
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
The amazing thing is he's been refuted and almost uncountable number of times, and never once validated in any of his LE themed campaigns, yet continues on like he's right on all counts.
Guess he does take being shown, repeatedly, just how wrong he is as he can't pass up mocking/tossing slights at me any chance he gets.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
My response would be an infraction so I will refrain.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:32   #113
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What is reasonable for one situation, may not be for another.
"Totality of circumstances" has been explained to you, ad nauseum.

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:33   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
I alluded to this in my first post.

What is a possible outcome of not doing a house to house search?

Could someone be held hostage and the police could have discovered this during a house search?

Could said hostages be murdered if the search was not conducted?

Could police be sued for failing to search when they had the resources to do so?


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Chris Dorner anyone?

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:33   #115
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Fear is nothing but a feeling.

So you are saying they are acting out of fear and on feelings?
Your point is searching house to house is pointless given the percentage of catching the perp.

How would you handle this situation?
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Last edited by cgjane; 04-19-2013 at 15:34..
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:34   #116
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Fear is nothing but a feeling.

So you are saying they are acting out of fear and on feelings?
If you're so much smarter, Dana, why don't you take your math to Watertown and show all those "acting out of fear" cops how to do it right?

Rather than bashing them for doing their job, and then telling them their doing it poorly, go show them how to do it right. I'm sure the guy with the bombs is willing to listen to your equations....
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:35   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
What is a possible outcome of not doing a house to house search?
What is the opposite outcome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Could someone be held hostage and the police could have discovered this during a house search?

Could said hostages be murdered if the search was not conducted?
If he is holding hostages, knowing that he is armed and has used explosives what is the chances of survival of the hostages if the police come to the door?

Do you doubt that he will blow the place up if police come in?




Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
police be sued for failing to search when they had the resources to do so?
You know the answer to this. Courts have ruled that police had no duty to protect any person(s).
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:35   #118
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
What is reasonable for one situation, may not be for another.
"Totality of circumstances" has been explained to you, ad nauseum.

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So give us a number.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:36   #119
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im out. you cant argue with stupid.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:38   #120
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
If you're so much smarter, Dana, why don't you take your math to Watertown and show all those "acting out of fear" cops how to do it right?

Rather than bashing them for doing their job, and then telling them their doing it poorly, go show them how to do it right. I'm sure the guy with the bombs is willing to listen to your equations....
You seem to be reading incorrectly. I have asked people who have claimed this is reasonable, to put a number on reasonable. How much of a chance of success does it take when performing an action for said action to be "reasonable"?
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