Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2013, 10:04   #61
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You are equating might with right. As I said, despots the world over agree with your position.

Unless of course you are stating this is wrong, then despots wouldnt agree with you.
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:07   #62
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
So the ends justify the means?

My guess is the terrorists that set off the bombs would agree with you.

Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 10:08..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:12   #63
larry_minn
Silver Membership
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 18,236
At this point the house would be highly secured, we would be visibly armed...
I would inform Officers "There is nobody in house but us. Please take these keys, the red key is for this shed,..... Please search them, lock doors when done, bring me back my keys" The dog is inside with us...
larry_minn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:13   #64
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 24,201
One of the fundamental questions here seems to focus around whether or not the police have a warrant. The problem with that is that the courts have ruled many times that a warrant is not always required for a search. Exigent circumstances sometimes remove the necessary for a warrant.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:15   #65
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
One of the fundamental questions here seems to focus around whether or not the police have a warrant. The problem with that is that the courts have ruled many times that a warrant is not always required for a search. Exigent circumstances sometimes remove the necessary for a warrant.
No doubt - if they see him run into my house they can follow him.

But if I live 3 miles away from where they last saw him - can they also just kick in my front door?
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:27   #66
mixflip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,785
I would do my part to help the good guys and let them look around but if I didnt feel like having my house checked I would just not answer the door.

If they break down my door and search my home without my consent...I'll be getting a nice check in a few months.

Im sure someone would probably say they had exigent circumstances where the public is in immanent danger of being blown up by a guy wearing a bomb under his clothes.

I have a steel security door so it would not be easy. I would not be happy but thats why I own several video cameras.

Im not going to be able to stop the police, FBI, ATF and military (I saw a soldier in some of that news footage last night, probably anti terrorism expert or EOD?)

Nowadays if you dont have video, audio or have it in writing, it never happened.

Last edited by mixflip; 04-19-2013 at 10:33..
mixflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:27   #67
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 24,201
3 miles would seem like a stretch. Unless they had a perimeter in place 3 1/2 miles away when he escaped and could suggest the perimeter was tight enough such that he probably did not get through it.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:44   #68
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,244


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
No doubt - if they see him run into my house they can follow him.

But if I live 3 miles away from where they last saw him - can they also just kick in my front door?
Not unless they had specific reason to suspect he's in your house.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:12   #69
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 17,954
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
Your math is way off. They have a 20 block area cordoned off...not the entire Boston metro area.
What is the probability of success and what is the probability of failure in this area then?

What level of success do you think is required before an action is "reasonable"? What level of failure do you believe is required before an action is unreasonable?

Is 90% probability of success reasonable?
50%
10%
1%
0.01%

Would you say that if your car worked 90% of the time, that is reasonable? 10% of the time?
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
Is there something you need from me
Are you having your fun
I never agreed to be
Your holy one
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:13   #70
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 17,954
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
The city of Boston is on lock down.

What economic impact do you think this lockdown has?
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
Is there something you need from me
Are you having your fun
I never agreed to be
Your holy one
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:16   #71
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 17,954
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
Not unless they had specific reason to suspect he's in your house.
Which what I am seeing on TV, they have no specific reason.

And if they are worried about shootout and bombs, I am not seeing how removing people from their house and having the people standing outside is helping their safety. I am seeing this on live TV.
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
Is there something you need from me
Are you having your fun
I never agreed to be
Your holy one
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:19   #72
Combatcomm
Senior Member
 
Combatcomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
I may be in the minority here but I would let them have a look around. I've got nothing to hide.

Note however I live in a small town in South Carolina and every LEO I have met has, at a minimum, been professional and courteous. Of course, I've never been arrested.

In a big city that may change. I can also see why some would not want to let a LEO in for something like this but then you risk delaying the apprehension for the suspect. Let them check the house, know it is clear, and go on to look elsewhere.
I could not of said it better. This is how I feel.
__________________
Retired Air Force and dam proud of it!! 24 years active, 6 years as a military contractor now a Dept of the Air Force Civilian!
Combatcomm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:20   #73
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 17,954
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
Im sure someone would probably say they had exigent circumstances where the public is in immanent danger of being blown up by a guy wearing a bomb under his clothes.
You just hit on why this is an issue.

There have been reports of "military grade" explosives being used. These Chechen guys. It doesnt take long to make a connection that Chechen terrorist are very well organized and very brutal. The perps have been reported to have "assualt weapons". It is very "reasonable" to suspect these two guys are not acting alone and there are others involved, and maybe not in boston. Maybe they are in LA?

Why not expand this to searching under exigent circumstances to possible linked terrorists in other areas?
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
Is there something you need from me
Are you having your fun
I never agreed to be
Your holy one
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:24   #74
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,244


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Which what I am seeing on TV, they have no specific reason.

And if they are worried about shootout and bombs, I am not seeing how removing people from their house and having the people standing outside is helping their safety. I am seeing this on live TV.
And this is occurring within the confined search area or 3 miles away? My comment was in response to someone asking if they could search a house 3 miles away using exigent circumstances as the reason for a warrantless search.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:27   #75
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 17,954
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
And this is occurring within the confined search area or 3 miles away? My comment was in response to someone asking if they could search a house 3 miles away using exigent circumstances as the reason for a warrantless search.
It seemed in the area..but they arent saying where it is.

But how does one define reasonable?

What is the probability of success that is allowed before you put someone in a potentially deadly situation (anytime a gun is pointed at someone it is potentially dnagerous situation for many reasons)? What probably of failure becomes unreasonable?
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
Is there something you need from me
Are you having your fun
I never agreed to be
Your holy one
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:31   #76
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 46,902
Blog Entries: 1


click HERE
Civil Liberties Issues

click HERE
TBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:35   #77
captainstormy
Senior Member
 
captainstormy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 4,597
Send a message via ICQ to captainstormy Send a message via AIM to captainstormy Send a message via Yahoo to captainstormy
While I certainly wouldn't want them to search my house, lets face it.

If a group of guys with an APC and full tactical/riot gear want to search your house, your not going to stop them.

Did you see the videos of the cops that are out looking for this guy, one could easily mistake the FBI/Police doing the search for the Marines.
__________________
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. - John Bernard Books(John Wayne in The Shootist)
captainstormy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:36   #78
tarpleyg
Senior Member
 
tarpleyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Well as long as it is common sense house to house searches we should all support it.

How about I get to decide who comes into my home - or follow due process (get a warrant).


BTW - I just saw a group of police (on TV) knock on a door - lady answers - they ask her if everything is OK - she says YES - they ask her to call if she sees anything out of the ordinary - she agrees - they leave.

It appears that law enforcement doesn't understand their rights to force their way into people's homes for no reason.
And this is how it should be...and the point of this exercise.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
tarpleyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:40   #79
Dennis in MA
Get off my lawn
 
Dennis in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 56,018
Some people need a Con-Law class. Lol

I get it. I do. But for this type of thing, you have 200 yrs of precident.
__________________
The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Dennis in MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:44   #80
Spiffums
I.C.P.
 
Spiffums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,430
We don't let Terrorist run our lives!! but you let one or 2 people do something and see how fast they wanna suspend your rights and privileges.
__________________
Internet Celebrity Personality
Spiffums is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply


Tags
arrogance of ignorance, brownshirts, jbterrific, no court needed, statists, the usual suspects
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:33.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 700
166 Members
534 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31