Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2013, 09:27   #41
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,670
Are they kicking in the doors of homes when no one answers the door?

It seems reasonable that if an armed terrorist is inside you home holding you & your family hostage - that they would just not answer the door.

How can it be justified to force your way into the home of a person that tells you - nothing is wrong here - but not kick in the doors with no answer?


Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 09:29..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:28   #42
Phaze5ive
Senior Member
 
Phaze5ive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Land of Teddy Bears
Posts: 763
I think I'm more of a passive-aggressive *******.

"You don't have my consent to enter my home." Leaves the door wide open and walks away.
Phaze5ive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:28   #43
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,067


The urgency of getting this guy in custody overrides privacy rights at this point. This guy was engaging police in a hours long gunfight, using ied's, carjacking bystanders, and potentially has a suicide vest. If he gets to an areas were there is a large group of people, he could still take many people with him.

As has already been stated, the police don't care about your bong or your illegal (in MA) 15 rd magazines. They are focused on finding the suspect.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:29   #44
cgjane
Senior Member
 
cgjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 539
Stats.

Why own a Gun if the chance of using it on a bad guy in your lifetime is minuscule.
__________________
"To a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
cgjane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:38   #45
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Just out of curiosity..

About 600K residents in Boston (not including suburbs).

Assume 4 people per household = about 150K homes.

1/150k = .0000067

This means each house (assuming he is even in a house) has a 0.00067% chance of having said person of interest.

How do you justify that with a 0.00067% of finding something/someone you are looking for is reasonable?

Would you say that the FDA should approve a drug that has a 0.00067% chance of working as indicated?

Would you accept ammunition for your officers that had a 0.00067% function rate?

Lets look at the opposite. You have a 99.99933% chance of the suspect NOT being in a house.

I am trying to see here how you define doing something with a 0.00067% chance of success as "reasonable."

I guess you think playing the lotto is a "reasonable" way to earn an income too?
Hmm, just to play devils advocate....

If they decided to enforce ALL the laws. If we did this across America, I think we would be batting greater than 0.00067%. Just how many illegal immigrants would we catch? How many people have a little marry jane on hand? How many people have show strings and a semi-auto rifle (or as the ATF likes to put it a machine gun)?
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:38   #46
NH Trucker
Needs coffee...
 
NH Trucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 2,324
Given the circumstances, with it being an active manhunt for a terrorist who has already killed people, I'd let them in, and on their way out I'd let them help themselves to my box of Powerbars and bottled water, knowing they're going to have a long night. I have no reason to be a dick to them. It isn't like they're just there to see if there's anything in the house to bust me for.
__________________
PMS is like a tire fire. Trying to put it out just makes it worse. You just gotta grab a beer and let it burn.
NH Trucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:40   #47
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
This.

If you have nothing to hide, then whats the problem?

Then what's the problem with gun registration, I mean if you have nothing to hide of course....
OctoberRust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:43   #48
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 16,911
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefWPD View Post
DanaT:

"Bayes successful run theorem" is of no interest to the law officers looking for a person who, I suggest, could be described as a homicidal maniac.

Should a person refuse to permit a team of officers to enter their residence it most likely would be due to either; a strongly held belief in their inviolate constitutional rights to be free from such a search, or, due to the fact that the killer is inside the residence and the home resident is facing some sort of threat not to permit law officers to enter.
I thought emotion was not supposed to be be part of a good decision. All I see here is emotion.

You cannot argue the math.

Hell, even if we take 2000 houses and not 150K the there is around a 0.05% chance of being right and a 99.95% chance of being wrong. Everyone can say the math does not work.

Prove it without emotion. Show me using facts and not emotion.
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:44   #49
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 16,911
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefWPD View Post
DShould officers run into a person who disagrees with this, the proper place to parse the matter is before a judge. I would not debate the matter "in the street" with anyone. There is no time and the situation far too volatile.

I am confident that a court would rule that the use of force to gain entry would be acceptable under the circumstances the officers faced.
Again, despots the world over agree that might makes right.
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:45   #50
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Trucker View Post
Given the circumstances, with it being an active manhunt for a terrorist who has already killed people, I'd let them in, and on their way out I'd let them help themselves to my box of Powerbars and bottled water, knowing they're going to have a long night. I have no reason to be a dick to them. It isn't like they're just there to see if there's anything in the house to bust me for.
Not allowing someone to trample your rights is not being a dick.

Telling them - there is no problem inside my home - in a calm - normal manner should be good enough.
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:45   #51
Dennis in MA
Get off my lawn
 
Dennis in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 54,491
Common good is not an emotion.
__________________
The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Dennis in MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:46   #52
cgjane
Senior Member
 
cgjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Then what's the problem with gun registration, I mean if you have nothing to hide of course....
yup, all my guns are stamped. even my pistols.

batfe already has a file on me.

Civil Liberties Issues
__________________
"To a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
cgjane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:46   #53
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 16,911
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Trucker View Post
Given the circumstances, with it being an active manhunt for a terrorist who has already killed people, I'd let them in, and on their way out I'd let them help themselves to my box of Powerbars and bottled water, knowing they're going to have a long night. I have no reason to be a dick to them. It isn't like they're just there to see if there's anything in the house to bust me for.
There is a difference between letting them in and someone forcing their way in.

In all honesty, I would probably let them in if they were so worried unless they totally acted like $%^$&heads. Much of it in real life comes down to how the situation is approached.
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:47   #54
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
yup, all my guns are stamped. even my pistols.

batfe already has a file on me.

Civil Liberties Issues

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Glad to know you support gun control, even if it's at a level of supporting the NFA of 1934.
OctoberRust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:48   #55
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 16,911
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Common good is not an emotion.
It isn't?

Shall I make a list of common good ideas??

Lets start with

Immigration
Social Security
Welfare
Gun Control
Gun Registration
TSA
etc, etc, etc
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:52   #56
Jim85IROC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vermont
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
The urgency of getting this guy in custody overrides privacy rights at this point. This guy was engaging police in a hours long gunfight, using ied's, carjacking bystanders, and potentially has a suicide vest. If he gets to an areas were there is a large group of people, he could still take many people with him.

As has already been stated, the police don't care about your bong or your illegal (in MA) 15 rd magazines. They are focused on finding the suspect.
Tell that to the Saudi guy that they decided to deport despite him having no apparent ties to any of this.
Jim85IROC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:53   #57
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,061
This was posted on Twitter this morning by a resident of a Lauryl Street apartment in Watertown:

"Evacuated from our apartment by military with assault weapons around 6 We're all safe"


I guess some on this thread would have told the cops with assault rifles to f-off?
czsmithGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:55   #58
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 16,911
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
This was posted on Twitter this morning by a resident of a Lauryl Street apartment in Watertown:

"Evacuated from our apartment by military with assault weapons around 6 We're all safe"


I guess some on this thread would have told the cops with assault rifles to f-off?
You are equating might with right. As I said, despots the world over agree with your position.

Unless of course you are stating this is wrong, then despots wouldnt agree with you.
__________________
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:56   #59
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,670
Well as long as it is common sense house to house searches we should all support it.

How about I get to decide who comes into my home - or follow due process (get a warrant).


BTW - I just saw a group of police (on TV) knock on a door - lady answers - they ask her if everything is OK - she says YES - they ask her to call if she sees anything out of the ordinary - she agrees - they leave.

It appears that law enforcement doesn't understand their rights to force their way into people's homes for no reason.

Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 09:57..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:02   #60
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,067


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Just out of curiosity..

About 600K residents in Boston (not including suburbs).

Assume 4 people per household = about 150K homes.

1/150k = .0000067

This means each house (assuming he is even in a house) has a 0.00067% chance of having said person of interest.

How do you justify that with a 0.00067% of finding something/someone you are looking for is reasonable?

Would you say that the FDA should approve a drug that has a 0.00067% chance of working as indicated?

Would you accept ammunition for your officers that had a 0.00067% function rate?

Lets look at the opposite. You have a 99.99933% chance of the suspect NOT being in a house.

I am trying to see here how you define doing something with a 0.00067% chance of success as "reasonable."

I guess you think playing the lotto is a "reasonable" way to earn an income too?
Your math is way off. They have a 20 block area cordoned off...not the entire Boston metro area.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply


Tags
arrogance of ignorance, brownshirts, jbterrific, no court needed, statists, the usual suspects
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 628
141 Members
487 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31