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Old 06-06-2013, 03:15   #651
G19G20
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Bertrand considered himself a socialist but then said he never was sure. Go figure


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No one should ever be sure of anything in life. Being sure closes off other opinions for consideration and stunts intellectual development.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:26   #652
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
No one should ever be sure of anything in life. Being sure closes off other opinions for consideration and stunts intellectual development.
Well that all depends on the context..there is being sure about a tangible and then there is being sure about a belief or deduction. To simply say that a person should never be sure about anything is just not reasonable. There are great many things that people should be sure about, unless the goal is to be reckless.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:03   #653
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
No one should ever be sure of anything in life. Being sure closes off other opinions for consideration and stunts intellectual development.
Interesting that you equate "anything" with "opinions".


It's as though facts have no place in your worldview.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:20   #654
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Well that all depends on the context..there is being sure about a tangible and then there is being sure about a belief or deduction. To simply say that a person should never be sure about anything is just not reasonable. There are great many things that people should be sure about, unless the goal is to be reckless.
Or to justify "analysis paralysis"
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Old 06-06-2013, 15:10   #655
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Interesting that you equate "anything" with "opinions".


It's as though facts have no place in your worldview.
That's your opinion, right? lol

Who decides what are facts? The notion of a "fact" is always colored by the opinion/spin/viewpoint/agenda of the person relaying the fact. Sorta like that old "history is written by the victors" saying. I honestly consider something truly to be a fact if it's something I have or can witness with my own eyes. Call me skeptical of "facts" in this day and age.

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Old 06-06-2013, 17:33   #656
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That's your opinion, right? lol

Who decides what are facts? The notion of a "fact" is always colored by the opinion/spin/viewpoint/agenda of the person relaying the fact. Sorta like that old "history is written by the victors" saying. I honestly consider something truly to be a fact if it's something I have or can witness with my own eyes. Call me skeptical of "facts" in this day and age.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
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Old 06-06-2013, 20:01   #657
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
No one should ever be sure of anything in life. Being sure closes off other opinions for consideration and stunts intellectual development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
Interesting that you equate "anything" with "opinions".


It's as though facts have no place in your worldview.

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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
That's your opinion, right? lol

Who decides what are facts? The notion of a "fact" is always colored by the opinion/spin/viewpoint/agenda of the person relaying the fact. Sorta like that old "history is written by the victors" saying. I honestly consider something truly to be a fact if it's something I have or can witness with my own eyes. Call me skeptical of "facts" in this day and age.
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Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
"What was to be proven has been proven."
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Old 06-06-2013, 20:34   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
No one should ever be sure of anything in life. Being sure closes off other opinions for consideration and stunts intellectual development.
I am sure that I'm a heterosexual.

I am sure that I love my kids

I am sure that I shouldnt eat Taco Bell the day before I fly

I am sure that the stock market will go up AND down before the year ends

I am sure that I can't hold my breath for 3 minutes

I am sure that I can't run a 4 minute mile and never will


That's a silly statement



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Old 06-07-2013, 14:20   #659
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
I am sure that I'm a heterosexual.

I am sure that I love my kids

I am sure that I shouldnt eat Taco Bell the day before I fly

I am sure that the stock market will go up AND down before the year ends

I am sure that I can't hold my breath for 3 minutes

I am sure that I can't run a 4 minute mile and never will


That's a silly statement



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I followed up with a more specific statement that the only things to be "sure" of are things that one can witness with own eyes and know for himself to be true. You know you love your kids. I do not know that you love your kids since I haven't met you nor your kids. Is your love for your kids a fact? To you, yes. To me, not necessarily. In order for it to be a fact I would have to see it with my own eyes and not just take your word for it. (Not saying you don't love your kids...just an philosophical example)
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Old 06-07-2013, 15:07   #660
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I followed up with a more specific statement that the only things to be "sure" of are things that one can witness with own eyes and know for himself to be true. You know you love your kids. I do not know that you love your kids since I haven't met you nor your kids. Is your love for your kids a fact? To you, yes. To me, not necessarily. In order for it to be a fact I would have to see it with my own eyes and not just take your word for it. (Not saying you don't love your kids...just an philosophical example)
So, are you sure that you should never be sure about anything?
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Old 06-07-2013, 16:07   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
I followed up with a more specific statement that the only things to be "sure" of are things that one can witness with own eyes and know for himself to be true. You know you love your kids. I do not know that you love your kids since I haven't met you nor your kids. Is your love for your kids a fact? To you, yes. To me, not necessarily. In order for it to be a fact I would have to see it with my own eyes and not just take your word for it. (Not saying you don't love your kids...just an philosophical example)
I noticed you didn't contest my eating Taco Bell the day before a flight. Perhaps you sat next to me and know it to be a fact


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Old 06-07-2013, 16:11   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
I followed up with a more specific statement that the only things to be "sure" of are things that one can witness with own eyes and know for himself to be true. You know you love your kids. I do not know that you love your kids since I haven't met you nor your kids. Is your love for your kids a fact? To you, yes. To me, not necessarily. In order for it to be a fact I would have to see it with my own eyes and not just take your word for it. (Not saying you don't love your kids...just an philosophical example)
I'm just curious, have you measured the speed of light in a vacuum or do you accept 186,000 miles per second to be a fact?


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Old 06-07-2013, 17:18   #663
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In order for it to be a fact I would have to see it with my own eyes and not just take your word for it.
So, are you saying that you are 100% sure that you are able to see someone else's inner emotions? Is that like a aura polygraph or something? Auragraph.
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Old 06-07-2013, 19:02   #664
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I'm just curious, have you measured the speed of light in a vacuum or do you accept 186,000 miles per second to be a fact?

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Neither.

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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
I noticed you didn't contest my eating Taco Bell the day before a flight. Perhaps you sat next to me and know it to be a fact
Ill give you the benefit of the doubt on that one! I usually find Taco Bell to be more reactionary immediately after eating it

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Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
So, are you saying that you are 100% sure that you are able to see someone else's inner emotions? Is that like a aura polygraph or something? Auragraph.
Something like that. Intuition is a trait that not everyone has.

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So, are you sure that you should never be sure about anything?
Touche'

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Old 06-07-2013, 19:20   #665
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Neither.



Ill give you the benefit of the doubt on that one! I usually find Taco Bell to be more reactionary immediately after eating it



Something like that. Intuition is a trait that not everyone has.



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What is it that you do for a living, again?


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Old 06-09-2013, 20:35   #666
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Originally Posted by SC Tiger
I can also see why some would not want to let a LEO in for something like this but then you risk delaying the apprehension for the suspect.
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Originally Posted by M2 Carbine
the faster they can check my place, the faster they can keep looking.
I come at it the other way around.
Since I know the criminal is not in my home, allowing them to search is a waste of time that could be put to better use searching yards, properties, boats...
Personally, I'd keep the shades drawn & not answer the door. No way to know that it's a real LEO and not a criminal pretender or the person they're searching for.
(No, I don't have a peephole. Need to install one.)

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Originally Posted by ChiefWPD
The situation is an exigent one
If they saw him running onto, or even toward, my property I'd agree, and they'd be welcome to look in the garage.

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Originally Posted by DanaT
even if we take 2000 houses and not 150K the there is around a 0.05% chance of being right and a 99.95% chance of being wrong.
+1
And for those who said "yeah, but when you get down to the last 5 houses you have a 1 in 5 chance", I'm not willing to give them free access to the other 1995 houses just to get their chances up.

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Originally Posted by Patchman
the BG decides to the ultimate deed, hopefully your estate won't sue the cops.
Why waste the money? They can't win the suit.
Warren v. DC.

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Originally Posted by ChiefWPD
To the GTers who would tell the officers they couldn't enter, well, should you ever be in that actual situation let us all know how it works out for you.
Last time I had officers at my door demanding to enter, and me telling them "no, I do not give you permission to come into my home", they broke open the door, tackled me to the floor, and searched the house, breaking & stealing property.
The case is currently before the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
They did not have exigent circumstances, so I'm expecting a check from the city.

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Originally Posted by OldSchool64
What are the penalties for misuse of exigent circumstance laws?
A civil rights suit. (42USC1983)
Or 42USC1985 which addresses conspiracy to deprive someone of civil rights.
Both of those give the victim civil remedies (lawsuit for money).

But best of all is 18USC241, titled Conspiracy Against Rights.
It's a felony.
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If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same ...
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, ... or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
I know it's been used against the KKK.
Would like to find instances of it being used against other groups, such as the officers involved in the searches we're discussing here.
I've seen video of them pointing rifles at people & forcing them out of their homes w/ hands on head, as well as pointing a rifle at the neighbor who was filming it.
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Old 06-09-2013, 21:07   #667
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I come at it the other way around.
Since I know the criminal is not in my home, allowing them to search is a waste of time that could be put to better use searching yards, properties, boats...
Personally, I'd keep the shades drawn & not answer the door. No way to know that it's a real LEO and not a criminal pretender or the person they're searching for.
(No, I don't have a peephole. Need to install one.)


If they saw him running onto, or even toward, my property I'd agree, and they'd be welcome to look in the garage.


+1
And for those who said "yeah, but when you get down to the last 5 houses you have a 1 in 5 chance", I'm not willing to give them free access to the other 1995 houses just to get their chances up.


Why waste the money? They can't win the suit.
Warren v. DC.


Last time I had officers at my door demanding to enter, and me telling them "no, I do not give you permission to come into my home", they broke open the door, tackled me to the floor, and searched the house, breaking & stealing property.
The case is currently before the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
They did not have exigent circumstances, so I'm expecting a check from the city.


A civil rights suit. (42USC1983)
Or 42USC1985 which addresses conspiracy to deprive someone of civil rights.
Both of those give the victim civil remedies (lawsuit for money).

But best of all is 18USC241, titled Conspiracy Against Rights.
It's a felony.

I know it's been used against the KKK.
Would like to find instances of it being used against other groups, such as the officers involved in the searches we're discussing here.
I've seen video of them pointing rifles at people & forcing them out of their homes w/ hands on head, as well as pointing a rifle at the neighbor who was filming it.
Did you also file a lien on the officers homes?


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Old 06-10-2013, 07:25   #668
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Did you also file a lien on the officers homes?
You are sitting on the wrong side of the cut on that limb you're sawing on...
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Old 06-11-2013, 13:40   #669
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I know it's been used against the KKK.
Would like to find instances of it being used against other groups, such as the officers involved in the searches we're discussing here.

I am trying hard to figure out what "group" these citizens belonged to 5 minutes before the Police arrived

Is there some kind of secret organization in the Boston area that the police singled out?
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Old 06-11-2013, 14:56   #670
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I am trying hard to figure out what "group" these citizens belonged to 5 minutes before the Police arrived

Is there some kind of secret organization in the Boston area that the police singled out?
Bank robbers.

Oh, wait, that group isn't secret


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Old 06-11-2013, 15:35   #671
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Bank robbers.

Oh, wait, that group isn't secret


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Have they filed a lawsuit, because they were targeted and discriminated against, yet ?
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Old 06-11-2013, 15:42   #672
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Have they filed a lawsuit, because they were targeted and discriminated against, yet ?
No. None of them can write English.


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Old 06-11-2013, 16:54   #673
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I am trying hard to figure out what "group" these citizens belonged to 5 minutes before the Police arrived

Is there some kind of secret organization in the Boston area that the police singled out?
The group in his example were the police, not the citizens.

But if you want to lump the citizens into a group, the Constitution refers to them as The People. They're the folks for whom the Bill of Rights was written, to protect them from the State.


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Old 06-11-2013, 17:22   #674
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The group in his example were the police, not the citizens.

But if you want to lump the citizens into a group, the Constitution refers to them as The People. They're the folks for whom the Bill of Rights was written, to protect them from the State.


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Well, since you are answering for MKEgal maybe you can explain, by your definition "the People" are "the group" then what did this,

"Would like to find instances of it being used against other groups"

mean?

what other groups could that poster have meant ???
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Old 06-11-2013, 19:31   #675
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Well, since you are answering for MKEgal maybe you can explain, by your definition "the People" are "the group" then what did this,

"Would like to find instances of it being used against other groups"

mean?

what other groups could that poster have meant ???
Read it again. He's talking about the police. The police are the group

I'm not answering for him. Your question was flawed because you didn't understand.


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