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Old 04-21-2013, 20:33   #421
OldSchool64
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Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
There is plenty of video of cops knocking on a door and then leaving after talking to the occupant.
Those videos have been in an areas that were under lockdown but still many miles from where the bomber was last seen and finally found.

Last edited by OldSchool64; 04-21-2013 at 20:43..
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Old 04-21-2013, 20:34   #422
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Damned if ya do and damned if ya don't.


You're always wrong in the court of someone else's opinion...

Yes, that's true, no matter which side of the door you are on.
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Old 04-21-2013, 22:14   #423
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Well, if you don't say yes when they ask to search, then you did not give permission. You can just step aside and say nothing. If they find anything, they can't charge you, and if they do, well, it will get thrown out in court. If a LEO asks to search, you can say "I'm not going to stop you but I'm not giving you permission either" and step aside. Even if he gets the warrant unless he has a good probable cause, it's not going to be very solid in court. Lawyers take it from there.

Drug smuggler was busted in GA a few years ago, had a lot of cocain. Anyways, when asked if he can search the vehicle the smuggler said no. He got the warrant but he had no specific reason why he wanted to search. I guess it was a small town and because the occupant said "NO" that was an good enough reason to search but it didn't hold up in court. 4th adm is a PITA for DA's and prosecuters.
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Old 04-21-2013, 22:19   #424
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Well, if you don't say yes when they ask to search, then you did not give permission. You can just step aside and say nothing. If they find anything, they can't charge you, and if they do, well, it will get thrown out in court. If a LEO asks to search, you can say "I'm not going to stop you but I'm not giving you permission either" and step aside. Even if he gets the warrant unless he has a good probable cause, it's not going to be very solid in court. Lawyers take it from there.

Drug smuggler was busted in GA a few years ago, had a lot of cocain. Anyways, when asked if he can search the vehicle the smuggler said no. He got the warrant but he had no specific reason why he wanted to search. I guess it was a small town and because the occupant said "NO" that was an good enough reason to search but it didn't hold up in court. 4th adm is a PITA for DA's and prosecuters.
Your vague question and answering may work with your mother but not LE. It's a yes or no question, don't pull your magic the gathering BS.

As for your second example, please cite.


Also what's a "good" probable cause as opposed to an average probable cause.
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Old 04-21-2013, 22:42   #425
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Your vague question and answering may work with your mother but not LE. It's a yes or no question, don't pull your magic the gathering BS.

As for your second example, please cite.


Also what's a "good" probable cause as opposed to an average probable cause.
Source of second example is hard to find, it's like a needle in the haystack on google. But lots of drug charges for anything get dismissed over anything a lawyer can provide.

If I refuse to tell you yes or no, what are you going to do? Arrest me? I don't think so, I have to break a law. If I don't say yes, then it's not permission. Search without permission or a warrant and your search means nothing. Even if you get a warrant, the reason for the warrant can be argued. The 4th was put there to protect us from unreasonable search and seizure. If it is determined unreasonable, meaning not having good reason, it can be thrown out.

I don't do drugs or smuggle them, but I am a taxpayer, and I get tired of my money going to pay people to hunt for drugs. Especially pot. Lets say you arrest someone with a few bags of weed, enough to say they were selling. The accused doesn't have much money, so the taxpayer gets to pay for the defense, prosecution, the judge, you name it. He gets convicted, now we have to pay for him to be put in prison. How much is this going to cost? Easily this could rack up a bill of over 100K. Thanks for the hard work officers, keeping that destructive pot off of the streets!!! Billions and billions of dollars on the GOP's glorious War on Drugs.
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Old 04-21-2013, 22:43   #426
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Let me ask you something Ohio Copper, do you think this would be a better country if police could search anyone, anytime for no reason?
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Old 04-21-2013, 22:45   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Your vague question and answering may work with your mother but not LE. It's a yes or no question, don't pull your magic the gathering BS.

As for your second example, please cite.


Also what's a "good" probable cause as opposed to an average probable cause.
Interesting. I always appreciate the LE perspective on stuff like this.

How many years have you been a cop?


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Old 04-21-2013, 23:41   #428
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Let me ask you something Ohio Copper, do you think this would be a better country if police could search anyone, anytime for no reason?
Where did you get that idea from anything I've said?


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Old 04-21-2013, 23:42   #429
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Source of second example is hard to find, it's like a needle in the haystack on google. But lots of drug charges for anything get dismissed over anything a lawyer can provide.

If I refuse to tell you yes or no, what are you going to do? Arrest me? I don't think so, I have to break a law. If I don't say yes, then it's not permission. Search without permission or a warrant and your search means nothing. Even if you get a warrant, the reason for the warrant can be argued. The 4th was put there to protect us from unreasonable search and seizure. If it is determined unreasonable, meaning not having good reason, it can be thrown out.

I don't do drugs or smuggle them, but I am a taxpayer, and I get tired of my money going to pay people to hunt for drugs. Especially pot. Lets say you arrest someone with a few bags of weed, enough to say they were selling. The accused doesn't have much money, so the taxpayer gets to pay for the defense, prosecution, the judge, you name it. He gets convicted, now we have to pay for him to be put in prison. How much is this going to cost? Easily this could rack up a bill of over 100K. Thanks for the hard work officers, keeping that destructive pot off of the streets!!! Billions and billions of dollars on the GOP's glorious War on Drugs.
You broke a law in the first place, that's why I'm asking for permission to search.


See how this goes?


Good thing for me is IDGAF what some lawyer or prosecutor does, my job is on the street. Ill do my job, enforce the law and do what I have to do to keep people safe. I don't lose sleep over some back room deal that goes on.

You're smart enough to figure out that "a couple of bags of weed" is about the same as a parking ticket in most states.

Your argument is tired and has been heard ad nauseum.


Same drivel, different poster.


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Last edited by Ohio Cop; 04-21-2013 at 23:45..
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Old 04-21-2013, 23:47   #430
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
You broke a law in the first place, that's why I'm asking for permission to search.


See how this goes?


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No, that's for a judge to decide, you can only accuse/charge me. I am a class A driver, when I used to driva a semi we were pulled over and checked for no reason.
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Old 04-21-2013, 23:48   #431
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No, that's for a judge to decide, you can only accuse/charge me. I am a class A driver, when I used to driva a semi we were pulled over and checked for no reason.
By whom? Motor carrier enforcement?

You're talking about apples and oranges, chief.


I see where this is going and well end it now, happy trails.





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Old 04-22-2013, 02:04   #432
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GOP's drug war?

Drug war has been pushed by both parties for a long time. Much of that war has turned the tide toward the militarized police state. It is not a partisan issue. The DEA has arrested more state-legal marijuana users and sellers under Obama than GWB ever did.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:21   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
You broke a law in the first place, that's why I'm asking for permission to search.


See how this goes?


Good thing for me is IDGAF what some lawyer or prosecutor does, my job is on the street. Ill do my job, enforce the law and do what I have to do to keep people safe. I don't lose sleep over some back room deal that goes on.

You're smart enough to figure out that "a couple of bags of weed" is about the same as a parking ticket in most states.

Your argument is tired and has been heard ad nauseum.


Same drivel, different poster.


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You sound like a salty old cop who's been there and seen a little bit of everything. I bet there are a lot of cops around here who could learn from you.

How many years have you been a cop?


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Old 04-22-2013, 05:32   #434
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That is exactly what happened in Katrina. "Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Police Chief Eddie Compass.
And what happened to "chief" Compass upon his utterance of that infamous phrase and his other dastardly deeds?

Katrina is the vile, evil, rank smelling example of a law enforcement situation gone bad, the corpse that you and others just love digging up and parading around when someone says, "...what happens when they decide gun owners are the enemy..." or some similar drivel.

So, what did happen after Katrina in New Orleans, in Louisiana, in countless other states as the direct result of the lessons learned from the political leadership disaster in NOLA?

Are those lessons and resulting actions of no importance to y'all?

Have either of you offered to sponsor, to initiate FOIA requests for all videos and still images as well as audio recordings of the searches? Oh hell no you haven't.

It is easier to ***** and complain, drag out the dead bodies and bemoan the unthinkable future than to examine what really happened, especially if when examined and put into real-time perspective it is revealed that the behavior during those hours was acceptable and should be used as a standard going forward. It might happen...

Sure, there will be court cases. Civil rights lawyers have spawn to feed, too. And there will probably be decisions going in both directions based on good and bad behavior as perceived by the courts.

Crap, guys, we learned a lot from Katrina. Laws were passed to prevent repeats of what happened. LE policies were rewritten. Some changes made news. Most didn't. A lot were along the lines of "If anyone in this agency tries that ****, you will be lucky to get a school crossing guard job!"

If I am wrong about any of that, someone actually in law enforcement, please correct me.

The issue, and the focal point of any changes based on Boston and Watertown, should be on the laws and case law supporting them first, then the politicians who used them.

Interestingly enough, there are those asking in one breath why didn't LE do more to prevent the men from planting the bombs, as in have a greater bomb detection presence, and in the next breath complaining about the police presence used to find the second bomber and other bombs he may have possessed. Ain't that special...
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:03   #435
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Why do you put "chief" in apostrophes? He was actually chief. When he was appointed by a then reform minded Mayor Nagin he was heralded as a cop's chief. A players coach.

I can't respond to your long line of questions here from my phone but essentially new laws were passed prohibiting police from doing that. Frankly it gives me no comfort because what they did was illegal at that time already. Moreover to best of my knowledge no cops were held accountable for the gun confiscations. A group were convicted of murder. I can't recall if any were tried for looting or the stolen Cadillacs they took.

I remember watching the video of all those folks at the convention center suffering and waiting for help. I remember wondering why they didn't just walk across the Mississippi River because there was a bridge over their heads. Do you know why they didn't? They couldn't. Deputies blockaded the bridge. Sealed them in. Did anyone die because of it? Were there any trials for civil rights violations?

How about the rapes and murders at the superdome. Guns were taken there too. Illegally.

Katrina is relevant to these discussions because it shows what can happen when cops act outside of the law because they know best in a crisis. They never thought some of those deeds would be discovered.

Why do you want to crush any mention of it? It's real. People suffered.

So tell me Russ. What really happened in Katrina?


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Old 04-22-2013, 06:26   #436
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Russ - why did governments have to pass laws prohibiting gun seizures during crises when it was clearly illegal already? What assurances do citizens have that these new laws will be followed? If guns are made illegal who will enforce those laws?


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Old 04-22-2013, 06:59   #437
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Russ - why did governments have to pass laws prohibiting gun seizures during crises when it was clearly illegal already? What assurances do citizens have that these new laws will be followed? If guns are made illegal who will enforce those laws?


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Good questions. I suspect this thread will now be moved to an even more obscure location now that it has been found.......
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Old 04-22-2013, 18:21   #438
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Why do you put "chief" in apostrophes? He was actually chief. When he was appointed by a then reform minded Mayor Nagin he was heralded as a cop's chief. A players coach.

I can't respond to your long line of questions here from my phone but essentially new laws were passed prohibiting police from doing that. Frankly it gives me no comfort because what they did was illegal at that time already. Moreover to best of my knowledge no cops were held accountable for the gun confiscations. A group were convicted of murder. I can't recall if any were tried for looting or the stolen Cadillacs they took.

I remember watching the video of all those folks at the convention center suffering and waiting for help. I remember wondering why they didn't just walk across the Mississippi River because there was a bridge over their heads. Do you know why they didn't? They couldn't. Deputies blockaded the bridge. Sealed them in. Did anyone die because of it? Were there any trials for civil rights violations?

How about the rapes and murders at the superdome. Guns were taken there too. Illegally.

Katrina is relevant to these discussions because it shows what can happen when cops act outside of the law because they know best in a crisis. They never thought some of those deeds would be discovered.

Why do you want to crush any mention of it? It's real. People suffered.

So tell me Russ. What really happened in Katrina?


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STOP TELLING THE TRUTH CF - you are such a debbie downer. i wonder how old folks were when katrina happened
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Old 04-22-2013, 19:41   #439
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You're alright RussP... hope many others get what your saying!

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Old 04-22-2013, 20:13   #440
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Seems like the government could have at least let people know what was going on - be up front about it.

Give folks a chance to put on their shoes - maybe grab a jacket - lock up the dog.


In this case TV and internet was up and running.

Could have said - if you live in the search area -

Government agents dressed in full military gear may be coming to your home


If you want us to search your home we will - if you say no we will not

or

We are coming to your door - and will order you out into the street under threat of being "shot at" - since we are not real good shots the chance of you actually being hit is about 1 in 790.

BTW - If you need anything form the store let us know we will stop and pick it up for you.


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