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Old 04-24-2013, 17:07   #501
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Originally Posted by racerford View Post
World English Dictionary
police state

— n
a state or country in which a repressive government maintains control through the police


This definition seems to indicate otherwise.
Say it ain't so?


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Old 04-24-2013, 17:40   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerford View Post
World English Dictionary
police state

— n
a state or country in which a repressive government maintains control through the police


This definition seems to indicate otherwise.
Got a link?

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-24-2013, 17:58   #503
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Got a link?

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http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dic...kiePolicy=true
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Old 04-24-2013, 18:21   #504
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police state

noun



Definition of POLICE STATE

: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...police%20state


Then again, the link that you found fits your agenda.
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Old 04-24-2013, 18:26   #505
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Allow me to expand your link horizons:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...police%20state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-24-2013, 18:54   #506
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Main Entry: police state
Function: noun
Date: 1851
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures


From your link.

Is a search warrant a legal procedure?

The debate we've been engaged in is whether established legal procedures were followed




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Old 04-24-2013, 18:58   #507
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Extraordinary circumstances for an extraordinary event is hardly indicative of a police state.


If we were in a police state; we wouldn't have to worry about the drivel that some of you post...it wouldn't be permitted.
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Old 04-24-2013, 18:59   #508
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Old 04-24-2013, 20:59   #509
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
At the risk of getting in trouble,

you are full of Shinola.

If that is what you think of Cops you can kiss my round-brown eye. You have no clue about the job or the people that choose to put their own lives on the line to keep you and yours safe.

You have just thrown down the most IGNORANT and idiotic insult I have yet seen. There is no walking that back.

you are scum IMO.
I knew someone would bite at my use of the word "equally".

I do not believe in "degrees of rights". There is no "they both violated my rights but he violated them less than the other guy did." Either my rights are violated or they are not. There is no gray area. Fortunately I do not live in Boston so neither the terrorists nor the police violated my rights in this case but I fear more for a precedent being created with this lockdown with door-to-door searches than random and extremely rare acts of terrorism.
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Old 04-24-2013, 21:26   #510
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
I knew someone would bite at my use of the word "equally".

I do not believe in "degrees of rights". There is no "they both violated my rights but he violated them less than the other guy did." Either my rights are violated or they are not. There is no gray area. Fortunately I do not live in Boston so neither the terrorists nor the police violated my rights in this case but I fear more for a precedent being created with this lockdown with door-to-door searches than random and extremely rare acts of terrorism.
Your fears are childish and lack emotional maturity. Your objectivity is lost and you so badly want to blame law enforcement for perceived misdoings that you are now grasping at anything you can to place that blame.



I see a whole bunch of people whining and crying on the internet; yet I'm sure a majority of the people in the area didn't mind the short inconvenience for their security while a terrorist was on the loose.

I will pose the same question that I pose to others: what is it that you do for a living?
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Old 04-24-2013, 21:39   #511
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
I knew someone would bite at my use of the word "equally".

I do not believe in "degrees of rights". There is no "they both violated my rights but he violated them less than the other guy did." Either my rights are violated or they are not. There is no gray area. Fortunately I do not live in Boston so neither the terrorists nor the police violated my rights in this case but I fear more for a precedent being created with this lockdown with door-to-door searches than random and extremely rare acts of terrorism.
Well, I guess the whole justice system has it wrong then.

Glad your here to straighten it out.

So we should reduce the penalty for murder to the same penalty a cop gets for a search that is overturned in Court .

Great plan there Solomon.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:27   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Your fears are childish and lack emotional maturity. Your objectivity is lost and you so badly want to blame law enforcement for perceived misdoings that you are now grasping at anything you can to place that blame.



I see a whole bunch of people whining and crying on the internet; yet I'm sure a majority of the people in the area didn't mind the short inconvenience for their security while a terrorist was on the loose.

I will pose the same question that I pose to others: what is it that you do for a living?
I'll say this much -

If today's media hasn't successfully dragged a slew of Bostonians in front of the cameras to rant about unfair, unconstitutional treatment by the police, then maybe that sentiment just isn't there.

People were scared. The police (local/state/feds) fixed that. At least for now.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:06   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
I knew someone would bite at my use of the word "equally".

I do not believe in "degrees of rights". There is no "they both violated my rights but he violated them less than the other guy did." Either my rights are violated or they are not. There is no gray area. Fortunately I do not live in Boston so neither the terrorists nor the police violated my rights in this case but I fear more for a precedent being created with this lockdown with door-to-door searches than random and extremely rare acts of terrorism.

You've spent a lot of time criticizing what happened, so I'm real curious if the responsibility was yours, what you would have done.

You've got a terrorist with explosives and firearms in a neighborhood. You don't know where he is or what he's doing. You know there is a threat, but that's about it.

So, if you were in charge, and you had wide latitude to act how you thought was best, how would you proceed? What would you instruct your officers to do? What assets would you deploy? What instructions would you give the citizens?

I'm really looking for what you would do, not what you would not do.

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Old 04-25-2013, 11:29   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Extraordinary circumstances for an extraordinary event is hardly indicative of a police state.


If we were in a police state; we wouldn't have to worry about the drivel that some of you post...it wouldn't be permitted.
Extraordinary circumstances in response to an extraordinary event got us TSA, DHS, Patriot Act and a larger, more powerful state. State power and liberty have an inverse relationship.

If we now have precedent that when a really dangerous guy is believed to be in a general area citizens can bd locked down and then ordered from their homes at gunpoint in the search, that is a bad thing for the country.

It never happened before but rest assured it will happen again.


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Old 04-25-2013, 13:59   #515
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Lets try a little perspective on what REALLY happened.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,3058085.story

"Residents of Boston and its nearby suburbs woke to find themselves in a virtual lockdown Friday as mass transit came to a halt, college campuses were closed and officials urged people to shutter their businesses and stay inside.
“It is important that people remain indoors and not open the door,” Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick said at a news conference in Watertown"



My emphasis on the word URGED by the "officials"


"Since then, there have been several police officers standing outside the houses on her street. Her fear has subsided because of the law enforcement presence, but Cavanaugh said she wished the officers would catch the other suspect and the lockdown would end.
“We feel like we are in a movie,” she said. “We are not allowed to leave.”"


Sounds like an impression more than a fact given what was further said in the article, but if it fits the agenda...

"One resident who ventured from her home -- at least initially -- was Maura Kilpatrick, a baker and co-owner of Sofra, a popular cafe located a few blocks from where Tamerlan Tsarnaev was killed in a shootout. Figuring the manhunt would end sometime in the morning and the cafe would open, Kilpatrick headed in to work about 4 a.m., but was stopped by police who searched her car at a roadblock.
She kept on, making it to the cafe and, along with four employees who’d also ventured to work, began making croissants. But by early afternoon, becoming increasingly fearful because the search of the neighborhood was still going on, Kilpatrick and the others went home."


Again I emphasize some of the food for thought here, especially in a brutal "lockdown".


Let's see what CBS had to say.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...e-hat-suspect/


"Beginning early Friday residents throughout the Boston area -- including Watertown, Cambridge, Waltham, Newton and Belmont -- were advised to keep their doors locked and not let anyone in. The Boston Police Department warned residents to "stay home." Vehicles were barred from entering or leaving Watertown."


"Advised" and "Warned" HMMMM.



Evacuations??

"Police evacuated residents in Cambridge who lived on the same block as one of the suspects, going door-to-door telling people to leave. Police told CBS News it is just a precaution, but they have roped off the area and residents were seen coming out with suitcases."


I wonder why they did that ?

"CBS News senior correspondent John Miller said police found not just the materials to make explosives, but a number of pipe bombs already assembled. "These are pipe bombs with internal threads and caps on either end, with standard fuses - [not] very sophisticated stuff, but dangerous stuff," Miller said. He reported that IEDs were also found along the suspects' chase route."



I'll bet that is why. Gee how brutal of them and for no cause


Now CBS did report this gem of clarity,

"Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick, who has earlier imposed a "stay-indoors" order for the city, said this afternoon that the order has been lifted, but he asked the public to remain vigilant."


So the only ORDER came from the Governor, and I will just bet that the power for a Governor to do that in a situation he deems it necessary goes way back in the State's history. A bit different from what the police were doing "warning and advising". A bit different when it comes from the elected Governor of the State.
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Old 04-25-2013, 14:18   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Lets try a little perspective on what REALLY happened.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,3058085.story

"Residents of Boston and its nearby suburbs woke to find themselves in a virtual lockdown Friday as mass transit came to a halt, college campuses were closed and officials urged people to shutter their businesses and stay inside.
“It is important that people remain indoors and not open the door,” Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick said at a news conference in Watertown"



My emphasis on the word URGED by the "officials"


"Since then, there have been several police officers standing outside the houses on her street. Her fear has subsided because of the law enforcement presence, but Cavanaugh said she wished the officers would catch the other suspect and the lockdown would end.
“We feel like we are in a movie,” she said. “We are not allowed to leave.”"


Sounds like an impression more than a fact given what was further said in the article, but if it fits the agenda...

"One resident who ventured from her home -- at least initially -- was Maura Kilpatrick, a baker and co-owner of Sofra, a popular cafe located a few blocks from where Tamerlan Tsarnaev was killed in a shootout. Figuring the manhunt would end sometime in the morning and the cafe would open, Kilpatrick headed in to work about 4 a.m., but was stopped by police who searched her car at a roadblock.
She kept on, making it to the cafe and, along with four employees who’d also ventured to work, began making croissants. But by early afternoon, becoming increasingly fearful because the search of the neighborhood was still going on, Kilpatrick and the others went home."


Again I emphasize some of the food for thought here, especially in a brutal "lockdown".


Let's see what CBS had to say.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...e-hat-suspect/


"Beginning early Friday residents throughout the Boston area -- including Watertown, Cambridge, Waltham, Newton and Belmont -- were advised to keep their doors locked and not let anyone in. The Boston Police Department warned residents to "stay home." Vehicles were barred from entering or leaving Watertown."


"Advised" and "Warned" HMMMM.



Evacuations??

"Police evacuated residents in Cambridge who lived on the same block as one of the suspects, going door-to-door telling people to leave. Police told CBS News it is just a precaution, but they have roped off the area and residents were seen coming out with suitcases."


I wonder why they did that ?

"CBS News senior correspondent John Miller said police found not just the materials to make explosives, but a number of pipe bombs already assembled. "These are pipe bombs with internal threads and caps on either end, with standard fuses - [not] very sophisticated stuff, but dangerous stuff," Miller said. He reported that IEDs were also found along the suspects' chase route."



I'll bet that is why. Gee how brutal of them and for no cause


Now CBS did report this gem of clarity,

"Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick, who has earlier imposed a "stay-indoors" order for the city, said this afternoon that the order has been lifted, but he asked the public to remain vigilant."


So the only ORDER came from the Governor, and I will just bet that the power for a Governor to do that in a situation he deems it necessary goes way back in the State's history. A bit different from what the police were doing "warning and advising". A bit different when it comes from the elected Governor of the State.
Good. I see no issue with any of that. It does make one wonder about some of the photos and videos that have surfaced though. Was there anything else that happened that you haven't mentioned here?

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 04-25-2013 at 14:18..
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Old 04-25-2013, 14:28   #517
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Good. I see no issue with any of that. It does make one wonder about some of the photos and videos that have surfaced though. Was there anything else that happened that you haven't mentioned here?
I included the links, look for yourself.

BTW as Russ pointed out, and any internet user can tell you, a photo is a frozen split second in time, taken from one angle and physical perspective and can be captioned any way the presenter wants.
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Old 04-25-2013, 14:46   #518
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I included the links, look for yourself.

BTW as Russ pointed out, and any internet user can tell you, a photo is a frozen split second in time, taken from one angle and physical perspective and can be captioned any way the presenter wants.
So what is a video?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd7_1...716&comments=1
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Old 04-25-2013, 15:18   #519
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A longer picture.

My satellite feed is being iffy today so it took awhile just to get the first 40 seconds. So what was the context of the video?

Was that a home where one of the suspects had lived and the residents potential co conspirators?

Did the subject say anything to make the police suspicious?

I certainly hope if the cops just chose that guy for the heck of it this gets investigated. I would really like to know the backstory from a reliable source.
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Old 04-25-2013, 15:25   #520
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
A longer picture.
Yes, of course. You're so smart that sometimes its frightening.

Quote:
My satellite feed is being iffy today so it took awhile just to get the first 40 seconds. So what was the context of the video?

Was that a home where one of the suspects had lived and the residents potential co conspirators?

Did the subject say anything to make the police suspicious?

I certainly hope if the cops just chose that guy for the heck of it this gets investigated. I would really like to know the backstory from a reliable source.
Dunno. It would be good. Who would be a reliable source in your opinion? The officers holding rifles or the homeowners?
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Old 04-25-2013, 15:56   #521
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Extraordinary circumstances for an extraordinary event is hardly indicative of a police state.


If we were in a police state; we wouldn't have to worry about the drivel that some of you post...it wouldn't be permitted.
Do you think that one goes to bed one night in a free republic and then wakes up to the radio blaring and neon signs proudly proclaiming "Police State!"? It happens just like slicing a salami, one slice at a time. Granted, some slices are thicker than others but the end result is the same, eventually you run out of salami to slice.
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Old 04-25-2013, 16:52   #522
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Do you think that one goes to bed one night in a free republic and then wakes up to the radio blaring and neon signs proudly proclaiming "Police State!"? .
Only in his fantasies


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Old 04-25-2013, 17:27   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Main Entry: police state
Function: noun
Date: 1851
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures


From your link.

Is a search warrant a legal procedure?

The debate we've been engaged in is whether established legal procedures were followed




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The "debate" is flawed.

You have started with a conclusion "The Police were wrong", then gone off in search of arguments to support that.
When refute, the goal posts suddenly move.

Rinse, repeat.
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“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-25-2013, 17:31   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
The "debate" is flawed.

You have started with a conclusion "The Police were wrong", then gone off in search of arguments to support that.
When refute, the goal posts suddenly move.

Rinse, repeat.
No I havent


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Old 04-25-2013, 18:01   #525
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There's a lot of people on this forum who need to slide back from the computer and go outside.


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