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Old 04-19-2013, 17:10   #181
Louisville Glocker
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Of course I'd let them look around. I'd let them know I'm armed first, and point out any other guns before they get to them.

Personally, I want my house to be a location where local LE feel welcome. Heck, I've got better guns than they do, so I want them coming to my house if stuff ever really gets crazy.....

From what I read, it was only limited searches, probably based on officer suspicions. If you refused to allow a search, I'm guessing your house would be monitored and perhaps a search warrant obtained. I'm sure judges would be willing to write one if LE said you looked nervous, fidgety, possibly under duress, etc. Wiser for them to search than to let this bad guy get away. I'm not saying a search warrant would be justified, but depending on what the officer observes, I think it could be justifiable.

Just say hello and be polite to LE. It isn't that hard!!!! Jeez, we lost one yesterday, they're risking their lives to save your lazy butt. Give them a break!

Cheers

P.S. I've run the Boston Marathon two times. So I've been right there. Hits home for me.
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Last edited by Louisville Glocker; 04-19-2013 at 17:29..
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:12   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
I see and understand what you are saying -

But I also think that during "emergency" situations - having the government follow the rules / protections is even MORE important.

Sorry we had to shoot up those families - they didn't want us to come into their homes - but we are the government and there was a guy on the lose that was real dangerous - they said no reason to search - but we didn't believe them.

If a person wants to allow them to search - I don't care - but that should be a choice -
There hasn't been a hint in the news, or in the post you responded to, that these searches were without consent. In short, it is a choice. The rest, you seem to have made up, to give you something to complain about.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:13   #183
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Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
Then I guess any evidence of criminal acts they stumble upon will get tossed in court if they decide to press charges. I'm sure they're willing to live with that.
I was speaking in context of a civil suit against the PD for violation of civil rights, not a criminal case. Pretty sure a criminal case would come to the same conclusion though.

I havent seen any reports of forced entries yet but it's probably too early for anecdotal reports like those to have surfaced and spread already. Give it a couple days.

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Old 04-19-2013, 17:15   #184
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Then I guess any evidence of criminal acts they stumble upon will get tossed in court if they decide to press charges. I'm sure they're willing to live with that.
True. No big deal. The guys been arrested, printed, lost his job, spent a pile on a lawyer. No harm done.


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Old 04-19-2013, 17:17   #185
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Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
This guy didn't rob the liquor store...he committed an act of terrorism, numerous other crimes, and was reportedly wearing a suicide vest. He is still a HUGE threat to the public at large and was (and I bet still is) contained in a small section of town. You don't put on a suicide vest because you intend on laying low.
And? The law doesn't change because this guy made headlines. The police deal with people this dangerous and more all the time. As I said, if they saw him go into a house or had reason to believe he was in there, placing the people in the house in danger, or had reason to believe he was in there destroying evidence, they can go in without a warrant. However, that does not allow random searches of houses where they have no specific reason to believe the terrorist is inside. If they have evidence he's in there, I don't dispute that they can legally search without a warrant.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:17   #186
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Still going. So I'll join.

Dana, this is an art, not a science. It was never expects to be a probability game: the courts have steadfastly held against assigning a numerical value to the levels of surety needed for a legal position. The original Amendment makes very conspicuous use of the somewhat nebulous term "reasonable".

How big an area? How many homes? How tight the cordon? Have all the common areas been eliminated, leaving only private property? Has spoor been found? Witnesses? Is there intel pointing to associates in the area? And then the nature of the threat--what is expected to happen if the bad guy has his way?

I'm not drawing any conclusions, because I don't have answers to most of the above. But I'm perfectly comfortable stating that at some point an involuntary house-to-house search becomes a reasonable thing under the 4th.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:18   #187
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not sure if this has been posted yet, but here's a scanner feed
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:19   #188
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I usually think CNN does a better job at live stuff but Fox is killing them on this one.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:24   #189
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I would let them look around, and then apologize for the mess in my house

The sooner they leave my place the sooner they might find that scumbag.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:24   #190
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Apparently the older brother was interviewed by the FBI in the past because of possible extremist ties.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:25   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaze5ive View Post
Apparently the older brother was interviewed by the FBI in the past because of possible extremist ties.
He was arrested in 2009, but the charge hasn't be released (data privacy).
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:28   #192
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Originally Posted by costanza187 View Post
I figure if there is a search of this magnitude. They are on a man-hunt for a freak like this guy... if you aren't cooperating, you are just an A-hole.
Ahhh good ole American common sense.....what are you doing here
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:28   #193
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Quote:
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He was arrested in 2009, but the charge hasn't be released (data privacy).
CNN is saying he was interviewed by the FBI in 2011 on behest of a foreign government for possible ties to an extremist organization.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:29   #194
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True. No big deal. The guys been arrested, printed, lost his job, spent a pile on a lawyer. No harm done.


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If you lose your job because of the evidence collected during an illegal search, that's between you and your employer. The government might not be able to convict you, but your employer is free to do as they wish.

Any real damges can be recovered through a civil action.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:38   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Carbine View Post
I'm as pro Constitution and anti government and anti authority as anyone but to help catch that monster I'd allow the searchers in my place.

We're not talking about you trying to hide a joint. We're talking about finding a inhuman monster as fast as possible before he kills more people.
So, the faster they can check my place, the faster they can keep looking.

.
I agree with this. I'd make an exception, and let them in with the understanding that they don't open any door or drawer not large enough to hide a human. Or inhuman in this case.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:38   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlDane View Post
If you lose your job because of the evidence collected during an illegal search, that's between you and your employer. The government might not be able to convict you, but your employer is free to do as they wish.

Any real damges can be recovered through a civil action.
It's precisely this attitude that makes people say eff you get a warrant.

And who's going to pay his attorneys bills?


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Last edited by certifiedfunds; 04-19-2013 at 17:40..
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:44   #197
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Suspect is in a boat in someones back yard.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:47   #198
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It's precisely this attitude that makes people say eff you get a warrant.

And who's going to pay his attorneys bills?


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Like I said, he can sue for damages.

Considering these searches seem to all be consensual and the chances of any charges being brought in a situation like this are roughly zero, I guess we’ll never know.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:49   #199
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Originally Posted by Thumpernator View Post
Suspect is in a boat in someones back yard.
Hiding like a child, man enough to plant a bomb and run away should be man enough to charge out of that boat house guns blazing.

What a coward.
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Old 04-19-2013, 17:56   #200
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I would imagine that if gun ownership were made illegal at some point in the future a lot of these "nothing to hide nothing to fear" folks would change their tune.


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