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Old 04-16-2013, 20:43   #101
dcc12
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So the guy had a life beyond a forum.
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Old 04-16-2013, 20:56   #102
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Sometimes in encounters there are competing rights between the suspect who is stopped and the rights of people in the area to be protected from criminal activity. Then some manner of safety for the officers is added to the situation. It can be a difficult task to balance these three sides and to try and keep all parties pleased. There are some sporadic court cases that suggest that temporary inconveniences of innocent citizens may take a second place to attempts to arrest and prosecute criminals which (in theory) may help make society more orderly and safer for everybody.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:12   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Dumbass (you know he flung the dumbass first, right? I've remained civil and respectful)

.
No I did not know that, with that I respectfully apologize and will edit my post.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:15   #104
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definitely too aggressive when he could have been getting ready to lawyer up.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:37   #105
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According to all accounts, including the officer's, the man never aimed his weapon at the officer, threatened him verbally or physically, or attempted any sort of violent confrontation. Also according to all accounts, the officer drew his weapon on the man and demanded that he disarm before throwing him on the hood of the patrol car.

My question is this; what is the standard under which an officer is authorized to draw down on a suspect and threaten to employ lethal force?

I agree that the man was being something of an ass, and I also agree that the officer was fully justified in stopping and questioning him. I think the officer went a little too far, however, in his handling of this situation by demanding immediate disarmament at gunpoint.

In my mind, it's not the legitimacy of the stop that is at issue so much as how the stop was handled.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:43   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Dumbass (you know he flung the dumbass first, right? I've remained civil and respectful)
Actually, I didn't. What I said at the end of a post was:
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Will the charges stick? Who knows, that depends on the DA/states attorney, but if you act like a tool, like the subject of this arrest (the thread, not my example), then you're probably going to find out.


My advice? Don't be a dumbass. It hurts less.
That was a comment/advice on dealing with the police if they stop you and want to talk to you. If you feel that was directed at you, then that's an issue you'll have to discuss with someone else. Perhaps a touch narcissistic, possibly low self-esteem if you see someone say "dumbass" and assume they're talking to/about you.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:57   #107
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those videos were funny in texas no less . it was like watching a fake episode of cops


the one slow cop , ' well when people call and get upset " lol
walking around rudely displaying llol .


yeah i can see a bigger bank account in his future
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:46   #108
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For those of you who have slung a rifle professionally, let me pose two questions.

When carrying your rifle via sling, in a non-hostile environment how do you carry your rifle?

When carrying your rifle via sling, in a hostile environment how do you carry your rifle?

Honest answers please.
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Old 04-18-2013, 00:25   #109
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From another thread on the incident

Quote:
The link to Michael Yon's website in Post#48 is finally working again. I just finished reading his background on Grisham. Good Lord, what a crazy POS. Yeah, the officers could have handled it better, but Grisham is a whack job.

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/sta...d-analysis.htm
.....
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-18-2013, 00:49   #110
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those videos were funny
yeah i can see a bigger bank account in his future


I bet you are wrong.

Here, I will add one of these too
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:05   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G26S239 View Post
Counter Intelligence Agent on the nearby base. I wonder how long he will still have his Top Secret clearance if he is too stupid to avoid problems like this?
Not very.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:34   #112
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Some observations

Knucklehead was looking for a confrontation, clearly.

While not illegal in Texas, having a AR15 slung in front, walking on a county road is going to cause some alarm in a large segment of the public, in a way a shotgun or lever action rifle most likely wouldn't. If it was more common place, perhaps it wouldn't be as alarming to a large segment of the public but its not, and that's the realities of the situation.

Someone concerned called the police, and they showed up to talk to the guy. Didn't appear he did anything illegal, from the bit I saw.

Terry doesn't apply in this scenario, only a consensual contact could be made based on the limited info I see. If the man was no longer free to go on legal grounds, I'm absolutely OK with disarming until things get sorted out, but by physically disarming him, you go from a consensual contact to a detention.

I don't see how the disorderly would apply here, unless the caller advised he was waving his rifle around.

On the other hand, if I were the LEO and dispatched to this call, I would at least like to talk to the guy, and figure out where his head was before I sent him on his way.

In my eyes, even though the letter of the law appears to be on the side of the defendant here, I think he is an idiot, and caused himself grief he could have avoided with a small conversation.

I'm curious to see how it all pans out, but incidents like this do not help our cause.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:24   #113
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Keep in mind the only video so far posted is from the guys son, edited to look as favorable on Dad as possible.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:30   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Keep in mind the only video so far posted is from the guys son, edited to look as favorable on Dad as possible.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
Definitely. Pretty typical of those people.


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:53   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Definitely. Pretty typical of those people.


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Honest belly laugh on that one! Lol


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Old 04-18-2013, 06:57   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Some observations

Knucklehead was looking for a confrontation, clearly.

While not illegal in Texas, having a AR15 slung in front, walking on a county road is going to cause some alarm in a large segment of the public, in a way a shotgun or lever action rifle most likely wouldn't. If it was more common place, perhaps it wouldn't be as alarming to a large segment of the public but its not, and that's the realities of the situation.

Someone concerned called the police, and they showed up to talk to the guy. Didn't appear he did anything illegal, from the bit I saw.

Terry doesn't apply in this scenario, only a consensual contact could be made based on the limited info I see. If the man was no longer free to go on legal grounds, I'm absolutely OK with disarming until things get sorted out, but by physically disarming him, you go from a consensual contact to a detention.

I don't see how the disorderly would apply here, unless the caller advised he was waving his rifle around.

On the other hand, if I were the LEO and dispatched to this call, I would at least like to talk to the guy, and figure out where his head was before I sent him on his way.

In my eyes, even though the letter of the law appears to be on the side of the defendant here, I think he is an idiot, and caused himself grief he could have avoided with a small conversation.

I'm curious to see how it all pans out, but incidents like this do not help our cause.
You've summed up my view on this is well, based on what I've seen so far


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Old 04-18-2013, 08:44   #117
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So a question for the GT think-tank, back in the 1700/1800s when person carried guns openly and lever actions and anything else.

How did the Peace officers , if any, interfaced with those individuals.

What makes today actions so much different than the early years.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:09   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noway View Post
So a question for the GT think-tank, back in the 1700/1800s when person carried guns openly and lever actions and anything else.

How did the Peace officers , if any, interfaced with those individuals.

What makes today actions so much different than the early years.
Back then you were disarmed the moment you entered city limits.


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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-18-2013, 19:20   #119
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In my teens I had a rifle on a rifle rack in the rear window of my truck for all the world to see. Never had a problem, not even when I drove to school. Nobody ever really thought much about it as a dozen or so other kids had them too. Today....we'd all be in jail somewhere, firearms destroyed and vehicles forfeited and we'd have a criminal record to follow us the rest of our lives. What happened?
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Old 04-18-2013, 20:32   #120
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Had this happened in ABQ, that guy would've been shot by APD.

In Albuquerque he would not even need a gun to be plugged by APD.

Wyatt and the boys take care of his kind in the wild west!

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:55   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
But it DOES fall under disorderly conduct.


Can anyone seriously say these methods of carrying a rifle appear the same to the general public?

The Okie Corral

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I agree with gjk5. I honestly do not think the general public would see any difference.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:46   #122
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Now, I absolutely love the AR rifle platforms, and there should be absolutely nothing illegal about them. But carrying one slung across your chest in a ready position with a mag in the well and walking down a publicly traveled and accessible roadway (as opposed to, say, out on hunting ground) could very easily be construed as a manner calculated to cause alarm.
Gotta agree. He was NOT "hiking".....he was walking down a public access road with the weapon in the "ready" position. And why only PART of the vid? I'd like to see the whole thing. Or did he only take a vid of the part where HE says his rights are violated?. This jerk gives us a bad name, when he is obviously looking for his "15 min of fame".
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:48   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin40 View Post
Gotta agree. He was NOT "hiking".....he was walking down a public access road with the weapon in the "ready" position. And why only PART of the vid? I'd like to see the whole thing. Or did he only take a vid of the part where HE says his rights are violated?. This jerk gives us a bad name, when he is obviously looking for his "15 min of fame".
The entire thing was filmed by the son, as planned. He edited it to show his father in as favorable a light as possible.
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:02   #124
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somehow, i pictured him holding it up with one hand, and flipping the bird with the other.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:04   #125
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True story, ya'all. Some years back, while working as a locksmith in Seattle, I had a small dispute with a customer over some cosmetic issues on the finish on her door. She demanded that I leave the property, (which I did) I also took a picture of said door, in case the lady wanted to pursue any legal action. I drove away, and about 10 miles up the road, Seattle PD "lit me up". I pulled to the side, and the PD did a felony stop on me. I was WAY cooperative....LOL. After they un-cuffed me, and we got the whole thing sorted out, it turned out that the "lady" saw me taking pictures of her door, and thought I was pointing a gun at her house. (I know, right?.) Seattle PD had NO way of knowing whether or not it was true.....and they weren't taking any chances. I did not blame them one bit. Anyone out there who puts on a badge and a gun every day, and has "been there" knows what I'm talking about. When I worked LAPD as a Liaison Officer back in the day, it was my main job, to go home in one piece.

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