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Old 04-16-2013, 21:49   #126
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Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
No support for TV tuners and no DVR capability as far as I know. Both of these features are built in to windows 7.
For the life of me I don't know why this is. They had a great opportunity to do this. As I understand it with some hacks and add on products you can do it without too much trouble but it should be native.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:13   #127
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No support for TV tuners and no DVR capability as far as I know. Both of these features are built in to windows 7. Mac mini would work quite well as a media player/server though, but so would any recent smart phone. I have no problem accessing my DLNA server from my Galaxy S3 using it to stream 1080p blu ray rips to the TV in my bedroom over HDMI. And the phone has a built-in DLNA server function to stream media from it, if I wanted to use it as a DLNA server.
OK is see where you are coming from. I use an Elegato (I think that's what it's called) HDTV tuner/DVR USB device and thunderbolt to HDMI out for HT purposes from my Mac all the time.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:25   #128
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What exactly does "similar" mean? (not sarcastic) When I'm running windows on my mac, the multitouch can be annoying. Not as precise. Never understood why.

So is this commonplace now? I can't live without it.



My first macbook pro was the first laptop I ever owned that actually did it well. Been a while since I've used a pc so I can't remember exactly what that means but I was kinda awed by it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:27   #129
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For the life of me I don't know why this is. They had a great opportunity to do this. As I understand it with some hacks and add on products you can do it without too much trouble but it should be native.
Jobs didnt want you to even use dvd's or blu-rays for content, no reason to let you record or watch live tv on it when you have their "streaming options".
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:50   #130
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Jobs didnt want you to even use dvd's or blu-rays for content, no reason to let you record or watch live tv on it when you have their "streaming options".
DVDs play just fine in Macs. I think Jobs intended for all discs to go away ASAP.
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Old 04-16-2013, 22:55   #131
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Jobs didnt want you to even use dvd's or blu-rays for content, no reason to let you record or watch live tv on it when you have their "streaming options".
And to his credit, 99% of the tv and movies I watch are streamed.

It would be nice not to buy them off of itunes.......
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:33   #132
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And to his credit, 99% of the tv and movies I watch are streamed.

It would be nice not to buy them off of itunes.......
You can get them elsewhere and import them into itunes...

Regarding the tuner card/DVR functionality - that isn't the Apple vision. Apple products play VERY well together - but they steer how they interact to encourage profit mechanisms.

In our case, it works well! It was pretty painless to drop cable in our house. The few shows we watch current season, we buy the season pass through itunes (watch through apple tv). We watch the show the day after it first airs on cable. We have Netflix for the kids and to find new shows. We save approx 1k /yr. Now I do wish there were painless ways to export shows bought through itunes, but it's worth the money not to worry about it!
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Old 04-17-2013, 14:30   #133
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The OP was classic! Persoanlly, I am an "i" guy. I have had PC's all my life and what you experienced with the Mac, I experienced with the PC. The biggest difference is, I can fix a PC on my own (probably because it took so many ****s on me, I learned how to fix, replace, etc... throughout college).

I **** canned my last PC (which was an Alienware computer) about 5 years ago never to look back. My iMac is 5 years old... never 1 issue with it. Its actually still faster than the nearly 2 month old computer sitting at my parents house that was just bought. My Mac mini that is sitting under my 60" Pioneer Elite Plasma works flawlessly with my Tv/Monitor as well as my receiver... something I can not say for the $4000 Alienware Media PC that it replaced.

My Macbook Air which is only 3 months old has run as smooth as a babies ass... its 5x faster than my older iMac and about 50x faster than the already bogged down PC that my parents bought just 2 months ago.

I am not saying that PC's are terrible, what I am saying is, if you do not know how to use a computer, understand how your registry gets full, and know that websites will load your PC up to the death... buy a Mac. If you can clean a PC on your own, Reformat it and understand the internal workings of windows... there is nothing wrong with a PC.

I hate to hear the bad luck you have had to this point with your Mac products but, for me, the user experience and ease to work a Mac far out weigh a PC.

Anyway, good luck getting that iMac running smooth!!
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Old 04-17-2013, 14:52   #134
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I'll pick on this comment. The higher-quality Thinkpad line has plastic cases with "roll cages" (frames) made of magnesium alloy or carbon fiber. This leads to a very stiff and strong structure that protects the computer, leads to a very solid feel, and prevents flex that could damage solder points.

An aluminum case is another way to make a solid computer, but I don't think that's higher "quality" or anything. It's just a different look and material.
Interesting. I didn't know that. How common is it? What does a higher end Thinkpad sell for?


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Old 04-17-2013, 14:53   #135
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Thanks...I'll pass your well wishes on to wifey...she's the i-Bot.
There's been a few developments...some good, some bad.
She still doesn't have a working iMac.
She has to carry the computer back to the Apple store tomorrow to get the old hard drive re-installed because the backup files were corrupted on her other i-thingy. Not sure of the details...I went to bed last night while she was still working with customer service.
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Old 04-17-2013, 14:56   #136
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Thanks...I'll pass your well wishes on to wifey...she's the i-Bot.
There's been a few developments...some good, some bad.
She still doesn't have a working iMac.
She has to carry the computer back to the Apple store tomorrow to get the old hard drive re-installed because the backup files were corrupted on her other i-thingy. Not sure of the details...I went to bed last night while she was still working with customer service.
At this point she might consider threatening iViolence.

This has gone far beyond unacceptable.


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Old 04-17-2013, 15:28   #137
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Mac are great....try HP.....its a freaking heart attack your buying. Macs are great unless it a lemon....then they are very bad. In regards to your offer to sell your Imac...... "I'll buy that for a dollar".
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Old 04-17-2013, 15:57   #138
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DVDs play just fine in Macs. I think Jobs intended for all discs to go away ASAP.
Yes, that seems to be the case. However, he was not simply intending for them to go away ASAP, he was intent on expediting their exit. And I think he was very premature in his thinking. For example, Netflix HD streaming quality is very good, but is still a far cry from the bitrate of blu ray. I do believe that optical media will be forgotten one day, but removing the optical drive from the new iMacs isn't going to make disks go away any sooner.
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Old 04-17-2013, 16:01   #139
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I am not saying that PC's are terrible, what I am saying is, if you do not know how to use a computer, understand how your registry gets full, and know that websites will load your PC up to the death... buy a Mac. If you can clean a PC on your own, Reformat it and understand the internal workings of windows... there is nothing wrong with a PC.
The registry thing was a mess back in Windows 95/98/ME days, but since XP and especially Win 7, I don't remember the last time I heard the word "registry," much less having to clean it. I also don't remember the last time I had to reformat my PC or clean a virus. But otherwise, you're correct.
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Old 04-17-2013, 16:07   #140
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Yes, that seems to be the case. However, he was not simply intending for them to go away ASAP, he was intent on expediting their exit. And I think he was very premature in his thinking. For example, Netflix HD streaming quality is very good, but is still a far cry from the bitrate of blu ray. I do believe that optical media will be forgotten one day, but removing the optical drive from the new iMacs isn't going to make disks go away any sooner.
The optical drive in the new imacs would have killed the design. Yeah, design is important to Apple and the new imac is stunning as is the display.

I don't know why folks bother getting perturbed about this when all you have to do is plug in a superdrive on the rare occasion that one is needed. Why is one needed on board?
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Old 04-17-2013, 16:37   #141
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Huge bummer. FWIW, I've had about the same amount of trouble with in-warranty Windows hardware as Mac hardware, which is very little. A couple of bad fans and a bad Hard drive on the Windows side vs. a bad DVD drive and a bad hard drive on the Mac side over the last few years...

That kind of persistent problems with a 27" iMac is just miserable (if somewhat rare), and I think you're right to be pissed - they should have swapped it several visits ago, IMHO.

I'm pretty impatient with bad tech support from any vendor. By and large, Apple is quite good overall, and truly excellent with in-warranty replacements where there's a real problem. I'm blown away they won't do better for you.

I will say that although you're pretty unhappy with having to take it into the store, most computer vendors would have you package the hardware up and ship it at your cost to their warranty center - the fact that there's even a store to take it to is a benefit, even if it doesn't feel like it.
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Old 04-17-2013, 18:54   #142
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The optical drive in the new imacs would have killed the design. Yeah, design is important to Apple and the new imac is stunning as is the display.

I don't know why folks bother getting perturbed about this when all you have to do is plug in a superdrive on the rare occasion that one is needed. Why is one needed on board?
A few reasons. One, there is no need to save space or power in a desktop PC, so saving an inch or two from the thickness does absolutely nothing for the design of a computer whose back faces a wall. There is no reason why you can't have a stunning display and an optical drive. Apple fixed a problem that didn't exist when they changed the design.

Two, now you are forced to buy a separate drive, and have it take up space on the desk as well as a USB port. It adds additional expense and inconvenience, as well as contributes to Apple's bottom line.

Three, I see it as another example of form over function on part of Apple. You can't make a solid argument for removing an optical drive from a desktop computer and forcing users to buy an external if they need one.
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Old 04-17-2013, 20:33   #143
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A few reasons. One, there is no need to save space or power in a desktop PC, so saving an inch or two from the thickness does absolutely nothing for the design of a computer whose back faces a wall. There is no reason why you can't have a stunning display and an optical drive. Apple fixed a problem that didn't exist when they changed the design.

Two, now you are forced to buy a separate drive, and have it take up space on the desk as well as a USB port. It adds additional expense and inconvenience, as well as contributes to Apple's bottom line.

Three, I see it as another example of form over function on part of Apple. You can't make a solid argument for removing an optical drive from a desktop computer and forcing users to buy an external if they need one.
Feng shui

Having a desk face a wall is bad feng shui. Much better to have back to the wall with desk facing the room. It's also better tactically.

So given that, form matters. Can't put one of those crappy black plastic Dell all in ones with noisy fans in a nice office with proper feng shui.

Plus, pushing the limits on form pushes the rest of the market to innovate, or at least follow, in that area as well. Apple does lead the market in that respect and it does benefit consumers as a whole. Apple takes its knocks in many areas like lagging in tech specs but it really created the portable digital music player market, modern smartphone market, the tablet market, the ultrabook market, and thanks to apple the world of laptops don't all look and feel like a clunky black plastic Dell Latitude with annoying fans, trackpad buttons and a clitoral mouse button in the keyboard.

Now that they've commercialized this new display manufacturing technology, if apple stays true to form we're approaching the point where we'll be introduced to it in other applications.

Maybe not to everyone but form does matter. If you want a clunky black plastic all in one with an optical drive that gets used twice a year, I'm sure Dell has a deal for you.




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Old 04-17-2013, 20:45   #144
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Feng shui

Having a desk face a wall is bad feng shui. Much better to have back to the wall with desk facing the room. It's also better tactically.

So given that, form matters. Can't put one of those crappy black plastic Dell all in ones with noisy fans in a nice office with proper feng shui.

Plus, pushing the limits on form pushes the rest of the market to innovate, or at least follow, in that area as well. Apple does lead the market in that respect and it does benefit consumers as a whole. Apple takes its knocks in many areas like lagging in tech specs but it really created the portable digital music player market, modern smartphone market, the tablet market, the ultrabook market, and thanks to apple the world of laptops don't all look and feel like a clunky black plastic Dell Latitude.

Now that they've commercialized this new display manufacturing technology, if apple stays true to form we're approaching the point where we'll be introduced to it in other applications.

Maybe not to everyone but form does matter. If you want a clunky black plastic all in one with an optical drive that gets used twice a year, I'm sure Dell has a deal for you.




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Well, I have no desire for an all in one, Apple or otherwise. It does not suit my needs in a desktop PC. Nor do I care about feng shui. I need a powerful PC that can do rapid video encoding, not one that will overheat with heavy CPU usage. This is why the CPU in my tower is water cooled. And my point is that there was nothing wrong with the previous design. The new design looks nice, but so did the old one. And it came with an optical drive. To answer your question, I value utility above aesthetics. I will take a less attractive design that gives me what I need, over a more attractive design that forces me to buy additional hardware, run more wires, and take up additional desk space. And I need an optical drive. If you value form over function there's nothing wrong with that, but there is no denying that this is where Apple went with the new design.

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Old 04-17-2013, 21:01   #145
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Well, I have no desire for an all in one, Apple or otherwise. It does not suit my needs in a desktop PC. Nor do I care about feng shui. I need a powerful PC that can do rapid video encoding, not one that will overheat with heavy CPU usage. This is why the CPU in my tower is water cooled. And my point is that there was nothing wrong with the previous design. The new design looks nice, but so did the old one. And it came with an optical drive. To answer your question, I value utility above aesthetics. I will take a less attractive design that gives me what I need, over a more attractive design that forces me to buy additional hardware, run more wires, and take up additional desk space. And I need an optical drive. If you value form over function there's nothing wrong with that, but there is no denying that this is where Apple went with the new design.
I know.

That doesn't make it wrong. It isn't even remotely built for you.

I on the other hand don't need one but want one because its just amazing and cool. I might use optical twice a year. Keeping the $70 SuperDrive in a desk drawer isn't even a point of discussion.

C'mon sput. Dude I pulled feng shui on you. That's gotta count for something. Lol

Right now I'm thinking of the old story about the American space pen and the Russian space pencil. :-)


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Old 04-17-2013, 21:04   #146
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Well, I have no desire for an all in one, Apple or otherwise. It does not suit my needs in a desktop PC. Nor do I care about feng shui. I need a powerful PC that can do rapid video encoding, not one that will overheat with heavy CPU usage. This is why the CPU in my tower is water cooled. And my point is that there was nothing wrong with the previous design. The new design looks nice, but so did the old one. And it came with an optical drive. To answer your question, I value utility above aesthetics. I will take a less attractive design that gives me what I need, over a more attractive design that forces me to buy additional hardware, run more wires, and take up additional desk space. And I need an optical drive. If you value form over function there's nothing wrong with that, but there is no denying that this is where Apple went with the new design.
Oh, and what about when pushing design yields new function benefits?

My fave product the MacBook Air was a niche product at launch with little utility. Today I wouldn't want to live without it. But some people complain you can't work on them or even add RAM.


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Old 04-17-2013, 22:11   #147
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I know.

That doesn't make it wrong. It isn't even remotely built for you.

I on the other hand don't need one but want one because its just amazing and cool. I might use optical twice a year. Keeping the $70 SuperDrive in a desk drawer isn't even a point of discussion.

C'mon sput. Dude I pulled feng shui on you. That's gotta count for something. Lol

Right now I'm thinking of the old story about the American space pen and the Russian space pencil. :-)


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You may have the luxury of thinking that but many laptop users really need all the features of a PC..

Did you know that on at least the 600 series of Dell Lattitudes, you can easily pop out the optical drive and pop in an extra battery or hard drive?
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Old 04-17-2013, 22:14   #148
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Oh, and what about when pushing design yields new function benefits?

My fave product the MacBook Air was a niche product at launch with little utility. Today I wouldn't want to live without it. But some people complain you can't work on them or even add RAM.


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I was actually always very impressed with the MBA, especially when they first came out. As far as laptops go, anything portable needs to be as light as possible. I think my 13" MBP is too heavy and takes up too much space. There are people that will complain about anything and if you for some reason want a 17" laptop can play the latest games and weighs 10 lbs, the MBA is not for you. My only gripe with the older MBAs was that it only came with 4 GB of RAM, but now you can get them with 8. I don't think I would have ever considered the MBA a niche product, because IIRC at the time, those little netbooks were doing pretty well. The MBA just took it to the next level and actually packaged decent hardware into a small and light device.
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Old 04-17-2013, 22:20   #149
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I know.

That doesn't make it wrong. It isn't even remotely built for you.

I on the other hand don't need one but want one because its just amazing and cool. I might use optical twice a year. Keeping the $70 SuperDrive in a desk drawer isn't even a point of discussion.

C'mon sput. Dude I pulled feng shui on you. That's gotta count for something. Lol

Right now I'm thinking of the old story about the American space pen and the Russian space pencil. :-)


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Lol, I have to admit, the feng shui was clever. But I do understand what you are saying and I agree that it's not a wrong. And they are obviously successful with their iMacs.

By the way, I believe the Russian space pencil is an urban legend.
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Old 04-17-2013, 22:42   #150
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You may have the luxury of thinking that but many laptop users really need all the features of a PC..

Did you know that on at least the 600 series of Dell Lattitudes, you can easily pop out the optical drive and pop in an extra battery or hard drive?
Does it come with a Sherpa to carry it?

If a user needs optical and better battery capacity why not buy a laptop with both since they have to carry it anyway?


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