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Old 04-15-2013, 18:39   #76
sputnik767
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I certainly no fan of Apple, and I have made many posts here to that effect. However, I do have an almost 3 year old MacBook Pro, and I have never had any problems with it. I also have a 7-8 year old Dell laptop and have had no problems with it, running Windows 7. Both laptops have had minor upgrades (RAM, HD) over time. I also have a 6 year old HTPC that I built myself, always on, running flawlessly. I have always maintained that a Mac is not in any way superior to a good PC, exterior design notwithstanding. You can make the case that Mac OS is superior to Windows OS or vise-versa, but hardware-wise they can be and often are identical.

OP, I think you just got unlucky with your imac. Generally, Apple computers are very reliable.
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Old 04-15-2013, 18:50   #77
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I'd call up AppleCare and ask for a new computer as you obviously have a dud. I'd keep asking for supervisors until you get the answer you want.

Try talking to the manager of the local apple store
^^That's who's been to our house twice, replacing logic board, video card, hard drive...

We're possibly 24 hours from finally just getting a new unit.

There's something to be said for 'throwaway' technology.
When it misbehaves, you throw it away without hesitation.
No stress.
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Old 04-15-2013, 19:38   #78
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Isnt the first thing a power supply does is convert ac to dc power? I dont think dirty power is the problem. That is the kind of diagnosis that means "we dont know why, but we're blaming you"
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Old 04-15-2013, 19:40   #79
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The saying ought to be "If you want to work ON your computer get a PC, if you want to define yourself BY your computer get a Mac." :p
If you want to do both build your own Mac.
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Old 04-15-2013, 20:14   #80
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If you want to do both build your own Mac.
A mac is any PC computer on which you've installed a modified version of OSX.
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Old 04-15-2013, 20:23   #81
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A mac is any PC computer on which you've installed a modified version of OSX.
Are there higher end pc/laptops that include things like milled aluminum bodies, backlit keyboards, quiet fans/operation, multi touch trackpad, gestures?

Has anyone else really managed to do a quality equivalent to the MacBook Air? The Mac mini? Anyone do a good all in one like the iMac?

This isn't a loaded question or contentious. I honestly don't know.


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Old 04-15-2013, 21:25   #82
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Wow you guys have had some bad luck. I've never had that bad of luck with any brand of computer from Dell to Apple.
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Old 04-15-2013, 21:33   #83
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Are there higher end pc/laptops that include things like milled aluminum bodies, backlit keyboards, quiet fans/operation, multi touch trackpad, gestures?

Has anyone else really managed to do a quality equivalent to the MacBook Air? The Mac mini? Anyone do a good all in one like the iMac?

This isn't a loaded question or contentious. I honestly don't know.


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I use Thinkpads. They are of high quality. Many of the things you mention I'd describe as features. Nice features, but features--not quality descriptors.

That said, I do think Apple makes nice computers (though not really what I'm looking for). I hate their OS though.
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Old 04-16-2013, 00:47   #84
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I used to work as Dell support for small/medium business. After the 3rd call I would have replaced the whole thing.

Quite frankly, looks like in this case, Apple dropped the ball.

Also, when I worked as Dell tech support, desktops were covered by an onsite warranty, not carry in...
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Old 04-16-2013, 00:50   #85
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Are there higher end pc/laptops that include things like milled aluminum bodies, backlit keyboards, quiet fans/operation, multi touch trackpad, gestures?

Has anyone else really managed to do a quality equivalent to the MacBook Air? The Mac mini? Anyone do a good all in one like the iMac?

This isn't a loaded question or contentious. I honestly don't know.


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Which laptops are used in combat areas by combat troops?
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:45   #86
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I used to work as Dell support for small/medium business. After the 3rd call I would have replaced the whole thing.

Quite frankly, looks like in this case, Apple dropped the ball.

Also, when I worked as Dell tech support, desktops were covered by an onsite warranty, not carry in...
From talking to the Apple guy who has been to our home twice now, Apple has the same policy....except that they seem to be using every excuse in the book to avoid that policy.
Even during last night's 2+hour phone comm with Apple trying to get the OS to load onto the new hard drive, the rep said "I'm reading over your service history. We will get this worked out. But if there's one more hardware fault, I'll see about replacing your computer."

One more? Really? One more and you'll see about it?!!
It's like trying to get a drug addict to pay back a loan. There's always "just one more thing" standing in the way.

However, last night before getting us off the phone and letting the OS download overnight, the rep said "...if this doesn't work, we'll have to have you ship your computer to our engineering office for examination, or you can take it to your local Apple store and they can ship it for you." Yeah...it's wife's computer, but it's becoming MY problem. (again)
I'm done.

It's not bad luck. It's something simple but hard to find. A cracked wire in the computer chassis or something like that. I think the problem is that Apple just introduced a newer version of the iMac, and they're doing everything possible to dodge standing behind last year's model because they don't want to be stuck with it.
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Last edited by airmotive; 04-16-2013 at 03:54..
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:41   #87
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It's policy they don't tell you about, three instances and it gets replaced.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:54   #88
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Mac Mini all the way, choose your own monitor.. I love Apple products.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:03   #89
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Originally Posted by airmotive View Post
From talking to the Apple guy who has been to our home twice now, Apple has the same policy....except that they seem to be using every excuse in the book to avoid that policy.
Even during last night's 2+hour phone comm with Apple trying to get the OS to load onto the new hard drive, the rep said "I'm reading over your service history. We will get this worked out. But if there's one more hardware fault, I'll see about replacing your computer."

One more? Really? One more and you'll see about it?!!
It's like trying to get a drug addict to pay back a loan. There's always "just one more thing" standing in the way.

However, last night before getting us off the phone and letting the OS download overnight, the rep said "...if this doesn't work, we'll have to have you ship your computer to our engineering office for examination, or you can take it to your local Apple store and they can ship it for you." Yeah...it's wife's computer, but it's becoming MY problem. (again)
I'm done.

It's not bad luck. It's something simple but hard to find. A cracked wire in the computer chassis or something like that. I think the problem is that Apple just introduced a newer version of the iMac, and they're doing everything possible to dodge standing behind last year's model because they don't want to be stuck with it.
One more. As in, 3, right? As in, lemon.

Same thing happened with a coworker's Macbook. On the third bad motherboard they replaced the thing.

But as usual, they're Apple so they dress a relatively standard service/feature that everyone else offers up in pretty wrapping and make you think they did you some huge service. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to copyright, "Replacing a product due to bad hardware." That would be par for the course for them.

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Old 04-16-2013, 06:07   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
Which laptops are used in combat areas by combat troops?
What does that have to do with anything? I'd assume DOD is all Windows.

Sput said a mac is any computer you load OSX on and so my question has to do with whether any other manufacturer has matched some different datapoints that I personally value in my Apple computers.

As I said it isn't a loaded question. I really don't know. I saw some of the ultrabooks a while back and while they were a nice try they really didn't seem to go head to head with the Air, for instance. I don't know if all of that has changed.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:12   #91
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Originally Posted by airmotive View Post
From talking to the Apple guy who has been to our home twice now, Apple has the same policy....except that they seem to be using every excuse in the book to avoid that policy.
Even during last night's 2+hour phone comm with Apple trying to get the OS to load onto the new hard drive, the rep said "I'm reading over your service history. We will get this worked out. But if there's one more hardware fault, I'll see about replacing your computer."

One more? Really? One more and you'll see about it?!!
It's like trying to get a drug addict to pay back a loan. There's always "just one more thing" standing in the way.

However, last night before getting us off the phone and letting the OS download overnight, the rep said "...if this doesn't work, we'll have to have you ship your computer to our engineering office for examination, or you can take it to your local Apple store and they can ship it for you." Yeah...it's wife's computer, but it's becoming MY problem. (again)
I'm done.

It's not bad luck. It's something simple but hard to find. A cracked wire in the computer chassis or something like that. I think the problem is that Apple just introduced a newer version of the iMac, and they're doing everything possible to dodge standing behind last year's model because they don't want to be stuck with it.
Based on every experience I've ever had with their customer service, this whole thing is just bizarre. You should have a brand new imac by now.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:16   #92
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One more. As in, 3, right? As in, lemon.

Same thing happened with a coworker's Macbook. On the third bad motherboard they replaced the thing.

But as usual, they're Apple so they dress a relatively standard service/feature that everyone else offers up in pretty wrapping and make you think they did you some huge service. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to copyright, "Replacing a product due to bad hardware." That would be par for the course for them.
"One more"...as in, 7. Or is it 8? Two logic boards (motherboard), two video cards, one power supply, two hard drives and a thermal sensor...all to try to fix the same problem. That's not even counting the previous issues of the faulty thunderbolt port and speaker.

Yeah...I'm thinking there's some British wiring in the chassis somewhere. There's just no easy way to work on the damn thing. 30 minute disassembly, part swap, 30 minute re-assembly, test run. Fail. 30 minute disassembly....
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:25   #93
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Power down the machine and reboot. Hold Option and the D key before the Apple chime. This is the hardware diagnostic test. Let us know what it comes up with. Run all the tests and choose the detailed option when it asks.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:09   #94
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Thanks Roger, but we're so far beyond that now.

Last night the last thing the Apple CS chica had us do is carry the computer into the living room to plug it directly into the AirPort, because she wanted to eliminate any network problems. Network problems? Really? That would cause the power supply to screech? Whatever....we moved the computer and plugged it directly into the AirPort.

Wifey booted it up this morning to see how the OS install went. I'm not sure of the details as I was leaving for work. I just remember hearing her shout: "What the hell is that?"
I pretended I didn't hear her and left for work.
Best move EVAH!

~~break~~
From an engineering investigative standpoint...
The iMac is lacking in thermal control.
I was chatting with the Apple guy as he re-re-reassembled the iMac yesterday and asking him design questions. (He wasn't a 'blue-shirt'...it's his store for the last 12 years). We were discussing some of the design elements of the iMac.

The exterior case is the primary heat sink for the computer. There's three small squirrel cage fans that blow onto small aluminum radiators inside the case, but that's really just to provide point-cooling of the CPU, GPU and hard drive. To actually carry the heat away from the computer, Apple relies on radiation and natural convection from the back case. (which is why it's aluminum and not plastic). Given the power supply failure rate...(and the rather high load on the tiny power supply), I'm thinking the iMac is simply not shedding heat sufficiently.
On paper, there's enough heat dissipation, but in practice, with production units and the variance that comes with mass-produced cheap electronics, there's simply not enough headroom in the big iMac's ability to shed heat when more than one component begins to stray from nominal production values.

Look at any top-line PC. We're talking liquid cooling or massive radiators or lots of air flow. The Mac has none of that, yet it's using the same basic parts (albeit running at lower clock frequencies).
I could be wrong...it's been a while since I've had thermodynamics.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:29   #95
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Air - maybe I missed it but have you all DEMANDED a replacement yet? This really is beyond absurd. At Apple's margins it can't cost them more than $25 or $30 to make a new imac.

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Old 04-16-2013, 07:48   #96
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Just take it to a local apple store and tell them you have talked with Apple support for over 6+ hours and nothing! I demand a new replacement computer! They should give you the late 2012 iMac with little charge. If you could, please upgrade everything to top, i7, 680MX, and 1TB fusion. I loveeee my new late 2012 iMac!
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:55   #97
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Just take it to a local apple store and tell them you have talked with Apple support for over 6+ hours and nothing! I demand a new replacement computer! They should give you the late 2012 iMac with little charge. If you could, please upgrade everything to top, i7, 680MX, and 1TB fusion. I loveeee my new late 2012 iMac!
+1 I have a 2012 i7 680mx with fusion and its an awesome computer.

You should be firm and demand to have the computer replaced. I'd bring it to an actual official APPLE store and see what they'll do.

Its very odd they won't replace it. There are quite a few stories of people with issues with the older gen IMac getting upgraded to a top of the line 2013 IMac for free.

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Old 04-16-2013, 08:02   #98
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The manager of the Apple store is the guy who has been to our house twice to replace components. We've more than "suggested" that this thing needs to be replaced. Actually, wifey has gone so far as to say "Look, my company uses Macs. I just got our entire sales staff iPad Minis for Christmas. This needs resolved NOW or my entire company is going to move to a more supportable platform."
...and a week later we're right where we were.

I've already hauled the damn thing to the Apple store too many times.

I think she has already crossed the Rubicon. She simply wants the Mac replaced so that she has a machine she can sell.
On the bright side...I get to build another PC, which I find to be an enjoyable hobby. Gonna do my first liquid-cooled rig.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:05   #99
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The manager of the Apple store is the guy who has been to our house twice to replace components. We've more than "suggested" that this thing needs to be replaced. Actually, wifey has gone so far as to say "Look, my company uses Macs. I just got our entire sales staff iPad Minis for Christmas. This needs resolved NOW or my entire company is going to move to a more supportable platform."
...and a week later we're right where we were.

I've already hauled the damn thing to the Apple store too many times.

I think she has already crossed the Rubicon. She simply wants the Mac replaced so that she has a machine she can sell.
On the bright side...I get to build another PC, which I find to be an enjoyable hobby. Gonna do my first liquid-cooled rig.
Need to be talking to someone at HQ, not some store Mgr but I'm guessing you done that?
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:08   #100
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The manager of the Apple store is the guy who has been to our house twice to replace components. We've more than "suggested" that this thing needs to be replaced. Actually, wifey has gone so far as to say "Look, my company uses Macs. I just got our entire sales staff iPad Minis for Christmas. This needs resolved NOW or my entire company is going to move to a more supportable platform."
...and a week later we're right where we were.

I've already hauled the damn thing to the Apple store too many times.
This is an actual apple corporate store not an authorized reseller?

If so that is highly unusual and I can see why you'd be pissed. The good news is you'll be able to get top dollar for the IMac new used or broken. That is the one major benefit of Apple products, resale value.
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