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Old 04-12-2013, 17:23   #1
JimBean
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14 inch barreled shotgun without tax stamp

I am quite surprised this is possible if true anyone care to confirm this?


http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Ē Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they canít be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they canít be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they arenít shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here.
PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also canít be defined as AOWs. Thatís because the term ďany other weaponĒ (AOW) means ďany weapon or device capable of being concealed on the personÖĒ And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″
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Old 04-12-2013, 17:45   #2
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I could conceal that. IMHO, it is an AOW.
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Old 04-12-2013, 17:45   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBean View Post
I am quite surprised this is possible if true anyone care to confirm this?


http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Ē Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they canít be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they canít be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they arenít shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here.
PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also canít be defined as AOWs. Thatís because the term ďany other weaponĒ (AOW) means ďany weapon or device capable of being concealed on the personÖĒ And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″

It's the same loophole that's been used to get AR-15 "pistols" with long enough barrels (12.5", I think) to put them over 26" with forward grips on them and not need a tax stamp.

IMO, it's just a matter of time before the ATF or some congress critter does something to change this, and requires registration of any such configuration under the NFA.
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Old 04-12-2013, 18:07   #4
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there is too much left to interpretation of the ATF for me to feel comfortable with that. i did look into it as well myself.

the shockwave raptor birdshead is pretty awesome. i currently have on a mossberg 500 persuader 8 shot.
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Old 04-12-2013, 18:22   #5
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If the firearm is originally designed and manufactured subject to concealed weapons laws it is treated as a pistol. This mares leg sold as a pistol.

General Firearms Forum
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Old 04-12-2013, 19:12   #6
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Ok so where the heck can I get ahold of a virgin 870 receiver?

To make this
General Firearms Forum
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:55   #7
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So if that's the case then why aren't these flying off the shelves? It seems like it would be the case if you could get that SBS without a stamp of any kind.

How do you get one then?

Nalajr
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:57   #8
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One more thing, if this is true and you can get that Mossy 500 with that 14 inch barrel without a stamp or waiting period from the Government, before I would unbox it I would make darn sure I had about 5 copies of the letter from the BATFE stating it was indeed completely legal and legit. I could only imagine what it would be like trying to explain that to your local LEO. "Look on this website officer, I don't have my Form 4 because it says I don't need one, the BATFE has said it's OK. Can I go now?"

You think that would fly?

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Old 04-13-2013, 04:07   #9
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really? how much trouble, paperwork,... is the tax stamp and what ever to just lob off 4" of bbl from your 18" gun?
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:41   #10
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Silly and pointless IMHO. You skirt the law to the point of inviting arrest and an expensive legal battle to get a little bit of cool factor and a weapon that doesn't give you that much real utility. Each his own.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:03   #11
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You skirt the law to the point of inviting arrest.....

Skirting the law and inviting arrest is what has made my life exciting!
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:55   #12
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I do not believe that to be acurate or a gun maker would already be selling them.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:07   #13
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Originally Posted by Nalapombu View Post
One more thing, if this is true and you can get that Mossy 500 with that 14 inch barrel without a stamp or waiting period from the Government, before I would unbox it I would make darn sure I had about 5 copies of the letter from the BATFE stating it was indeed completely legal and legit. I could only imagine what it would be like trying to explain that to your local LEO. "Look on this website officer, I don't have my Form 4 because it says I don't need one, the BATFE has said it's OK. Can I go now?"

You think that would fly?

Nalajr
Funny thing is, no one ever asks for my paperwork for my SBRs or Suppressors.

I have shot at public ranges, private ranges and private property. Maybe because I look like I look like or maybe because I have the paperwork.

I think I could get away with making illegal guns, but for $200 it is just not worth the risk.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:36   #14
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While that set up may get you around federal laws, how many states hav e barrel length laws?

Traveling around with one could be a nightmare.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:00   #15
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They have been making those for years, requires a $5 AOW tax stamp to transfer but the manufacturer pays I believe $200 to manufacture. So basically you pay ~$600 for a shotgun.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:55   #16
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Originally Posted by PattonT View Post
They have been making those for years, requires a $5 AOW tax stamp to transfer but the manufacturer pays I believe $200 to manufacture. So basically you pay ~$600 for a shotgun.
Are you sure about that? The ATF definition of AOW
is

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...n-nfa-aow.html
"Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, "

The set up in the original post is over 26 inches long.

Last edited by JimBean; 04-13-2013 at 11:55..
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:46   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBean View Post
Are you sure about that? The ATF definition of AOW
is

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...n-nfa-aow.html
"Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, "

The set up in the original post is over 26 inches long.
I don't know then, I was kind of basing it on these http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

I believe that is for 18" barrel and not overall length.
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Last edited by PattonT; 04-13-2013 at 12:49..
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Old 04-13-2013, 13:09   #18
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Originally Posted by PattonT View Post
I don't know then, I was kind of basing it on these http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

I believe that is for 18" barrel and not overall length.
18 must be the barrel length. I rechecked the first letter posted on the link in the original post. The ATF's definition of AOW includes must be less than 26 inches overall. The serbu shotgun would fit that but not the 14inch barreled Mossberg 500 which is 26.5 inches with the raptor grip.
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Old 04-13-2013, 21:02   #19
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http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0953--,00.html

Here is what is said from the Michigan State police web-site.


3. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?
MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess. MCL 750.224d There is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.
The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) of Act 372.

I have seen a single shot 12 gauge with a full stock and we measured 16 1/2" barrel. The overall length on it is 32". I always wondered if that was legal to have per what I read in that statement. I believe it is.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:59   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Current Resident View Post
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0953--,00.html

Here is what is said from the Michigan State police web-site.


3. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?
MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess. MCL 750.224d There is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.
The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) of Act 372.

I have seen a single shot 12 gauge with a full stock and we measured 16 1/2" barrel. The overall length on it is 32". I always wondered if that was legal to have per what I read in that statement. I believe it is.
Not the way I read the AG opinion you quoted.

The way I read that if a shotgun has an 18" barrel, is over 26" but less than 30" it needs to be registered in MI. If the barrel is less than 18" it is a short barreled shotgun and needs to be registered with the Atf.
posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Last edited by vafish; 04-14-2013 at 04:04..
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