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Old 05-15-2013, 23:45   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Not true at all. Basement and a food supply and thats half the battle. Not a good place to be but you really dont know how it will play out. Combatants are more interested in military targets.
If someone lets the genie out the bottle they will be looking for more than military targets/damage.Collateral damage is an objective of any mass strike.

How many folk does it take ta treat 1 wounded soldier/civilian? Granted your above about shelter/food are valid points.We have basements in both houses and plenty of food/water/meds ect.We don't live near nuke plants/military bases.SC is mostly powered by nuclear plants and that is a concern for us,an attack on a plant and the right wind patterns can screw us no matter what steps we have take.

All this said,I pray the genie never gets uncorked.'08.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:00   #62
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If someone lets the genie out the bottle they will be looking for more than military targets/damage.Collateral damage is an objective of any mass strike.
In the margin, barely. The laws of self preservation say they will stick with predominantly military targets because if a potential victor has any chance at all, it will require suppression of retaliation. They have to hunt for and concentrate on suppressing any return fire.
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Old 05-24-2013, 13:23   #63
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Yer missing a point,the US has become very pacifistic.They will beg for peace rather than understand war.'08.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:00   #64
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In the margin, barely. The laws of self preservation say they will stick with predominantly military targets because if a potential victor has any chance at all, it will require suppression of retaliation. They have to hunt for and concentrate on suppressing any return fire.
IMO.....the most effective projection of a single nuclear weapon....or of the 1st strike....either by a lesser power...or of a major power.....will be a HEMP!

An CONUS-wide HEMP(s) will impact all of America..... military & civilian. ...rich & poor....powerful or not....prepared or not!

It is my opinion who initiated the HEMP may be the least of our concerns...

..as I believe the civil unrest between the "producers" & "entitlement class" will begin to consume America until what is remaining is unrecognizable.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:52   #65
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Originally Posted by LongGun1
as I believe the civil unrest between the "producers" & "entitlement class" will begin to consume America until what is remaining is unrecognizable.
You mean kinda like now?
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Old 05-26-2013, 17:46   #66
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You mean kinda like now?
This is just the stage being set...

..the fat lady has yet to utter a note!
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Old 05-26-2013, 17:50   #67
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IMO.....the most effective projection of a single nuclear weapon....or of the 1st strike....either by a lesser power...or of a major power.....will be a HEMP!

An CONUS-wide HEMP(s) will impact all of America..... military & civilian. ...rich & poor....powerful or not....prepared or not!

It is my opinion who initiated the HEMP may be the least of our concerns...

..as I believe the civil unrest between the "producers" & "entitlement class" will begin to consume America until what is remaining is unrecognizable.
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This is just the stage being set...

..the fat lady has yet to utter a note!
Agreed on both accounts.
We have seen nothing yet but I fully believe at some point we will, hopefully not in my lifetime.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:38   #68
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IMO.....the most effective projection of a single nuclear weapon....or of the 1st strike....either by a lesser power...or of a major power.....will be a HEMP!

An CONUS-wide HEMP(s) will impact all of America..... military & civilian. ...rich & poor....powerful or not....prepared or not!

It is my opinion who initiated the HEMP may be the least of our concerns...

..as I believe the civil unrest between the "producers" & "entitlement class" will begin to consume America until what is remaining is unrecognizable.
Only insofar as everyones immediate comfort is concerned. The most effective would be the return fire that wipes out whoever started it.

Whoever initiated is of the highest concern because such a stunt isnt done for entertainment and amusement. Theres a goal in mind and theyre likely not done yet.

Also why EMP is suicide for the attacker. Hardened systems, silos and SLBMs will be activated and the threat will be responded to.
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Old 05-31-2013, 18:04   #69
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If you are talking a single event yes we could survive with out to much problem as long as we were away from ground zero.

If you are talking about a war using the god awful things then bend over and kiss your butt good by. The powers that be claim that only four hundred nukes going off will cause a nuklear winter that could last for years. So in less you have a place where you can live under ground for years with water and food you are going to die.

Our country has thousands of them. If we are hit by a strike we know where it came from and will send a responding attack back. If another country thinks we should have not dun that they may decide to strike us as well and we will strike them back. On and on till every thing is destroyed.

How will you die? You could die from one of the many strikes. That would be the best way to go. You could die of radiation poisoning, starvation, killed by someone looking for food, killed by someone using you as food. There are just so many ways it could happen and you get to watch your family go to.

Think happy thoughts and pray that it never happens. God willing we can all die of old age including our great great great grand kids.

I am not set up for that and never will be. I don't have the money for that. Very few will have the money that it takes to prep for that.

Very few will survive a nuklear war. I don't know if I really would want to. What would be left?
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Old 05-31-2013, 19:08   #70
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Okay, I've been through the semi-standard WMD training offered to public safety.

I've also read my fair share of the NBC/Disaster books back when being a survivalist was a popular new thing. Ah, the 70's.

That said, falling back upon the heavily ingrained training & drills I was subjected to as a youngster attending school, I've thought about getting one of those old school desks they were always having us practice ducking under in the event of a nuclear attack.
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Old 06-01-2013, 00:35   #71
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Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post

Also why EMP is suicide for the attacker. Hardened systems, silos and SLBMs will be activated and the threat will be responded to.
And how does that apply to a launch from the hold of a (fill-in-the-blank flagged) freighter just off our east and/or west coast....when the crew scuttles the ship(s) & commits suicide immediately afterwards....maybe an oil slick as the only real evidence they were ever there.

Consider...All of the destructive power of the combined military might of WWII Germany & Japan in the years of WWII did not accomplish anywhere near the damage done to the CONUS on a single day (9/11/2001)....accomplished not by a military force or country.....but by a 'non-state actor'!

And exactly who bore the brunt of our retaliation & military might that terrible day??
Or that month??
That year??
Despite our intensive efforts.. the AQ leader (UBL) was not killed nor captured until a decade later!

We do real well in conventional warfare against conventional armies. ....not so well against non-state actors employing asymmetrical warfare ....our 'wars' in Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc are lopsided examples of professional military vs. civilian militias. The bush wars in Africa are another good study in how the professionals were bested by the militias.

And lets say Iran decides to strike at the "Great Satan" one day in a similar manner with an HEMP or two.....the "fear" of our nuclear deterrent is not much of a disincentive to a strict Islamic culture who strongly believes there is a palace full of virgins waiting in heaven as their reward!
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:04   #72
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My plan is to bend over and put my head between my legs and kiss my rear good by. Time to see Jesus.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:52   #73
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Me and the big man upstairs got things worked out......so I guess you could say I'm preparied
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Old 06-10-2013, 14:05   #74
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And how does that apply to a launch from the hold of a (fill-in-the-blank flagged) freighter just off our east and/or west coast....when the crew scuttles the ship(s) & commits suicide immediately afterwards....maybe an oil slick as the only real evidence they were ever there.
Absolutely false.

The US has a catalogue of isotopes from fissionable sources worldwide. Using wingtip sensors on military aircraft that would be dispatched to the blast site, the atmospheric sensing would be able to determine within 24 hours the original source of the weapon by its signature


Using satellite recon (remote sensing) i have no doubt virtually every seagoing ship transiting the worlds oceans are photgraphicallly tracked, especially originating from or passing thru ports of known "bad actors". Its too easy to snap a pic from birds overhead.

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Consider...All of the destructive power of the combined military might of WWII Germany & Japan in the years of WWII did not accomplish anywhere near the damage done to the CONUS on a single day (9/11/2001)....accomplished not by a military force or country.....but by a 'non-state actor'!

And exactly who bore the brunt of our retaliation & military might that terrible day??
Or that month??
That year??
Despite our intensive efforts.. the AQ leader (UBL) was not killed nor captured until a decade later!

We do real well in conventional warfare against conventional armies. ....not so well against non-state actors employing asymmetrical warfare ....our 'wars' in Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc are lopsided examples of professional military vs. civilian militias. The bush wars in Africa are another good study in how the professionals were bested by the militias.
None of this is remotely relevant to the topic/methods being discussed.

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And lets say Iran decides to strike at the "Great Satan" one day in a similar manner with an HEMP or two.....the "fear" of our nuclear deterrent is not much of a disincentive to a strict Islamic culture who strongly believes there is a palace full of virgins waiting in heaven as their reward!
Then we will oblige them to where they will never be able to try again, survive and rebuild. Our resilence and destructive power so unleashed guarantees their ultimate failure making it a fools errand.
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Old 06-10-2013, 15:17   #75
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Absolutely false.

The US has a catalogue of isotopes from fissionable sources worldwide. Using wingtip sensors on military aircraft that would be dispatched to the blast site, the atmospheric sensing would be able to determine within 24 hours the original source
Do you understand the HEMP I am discussing is approximately 300 miles up?

Exactly what military aircraft flies at 1 million, 600 thousand feet agl???

Real simple....No aircraft "flies" at 300 miles up!!

The attitude record for jet aircraft is just over 123 thousand feet.

The attitude record for a rocket plane is 367 thousand feet.


Since we are now relegated to hitching rides with the Russians to get into space..
..and our civilian space effort is still in it's infancy...

..and our country would in all likelihood be self destructing soon after an HEMP...

..with the world realigning into yet a new world order..

...whodoneit...

..just might be a minor consideration by that point!
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Old 06-10-2013, 15:34   #76
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I was a B-52 crew member and the Air Force trained me as to how to survive if I went down in Russia on my mission. With that having been said, having the knowledge without the right equipment does not improve your odds significantly or long term.
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Old 06-10-2013, 18:57   #77
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To the op...you've heard some folks speak from training, some from google, some from movies...You can prob invest the equivalent value of a gun or two and be extremely well equipped. Get some paper manuals and read up...you will be far ahead of the masses.

This stuff is so situational...can range from One Second After, Hiroshima, to The Day After.....to put it in a perspective we may have seen. Now ask yourself how close you are to that event. That will help gauge a response.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:53   #78
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QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]Do you understand the HEMP I am discussing is approximately 300 miles up?

[/QUOTE]

Do you understand that things dont stay static?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
Exactly what military aircraft flies at 1 million, 600 thousand feet agl???

Real simple....No aircraft "flies" at 300 miles up!!

The attitude record for jet aircraft is just over 123 thousand feet.

The attitude record for a rocket plane is 367 thousand feet.
So? You ever hear of sounding rockets?
An L1011 at 40,000 can launch a Pegasus rocket. Flying out of either Vandenberg or Wallops Island.

Low earth orbit in no time.


QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
Since we are now relegated to hitching rides with the Russians to get into space.

..and our civilian space effort is still in it's infancy...
[/QUOTE]

Orbital Sciences Corp has been around since the 80s. And we re not talking about going to the ISS.

QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
..and our country would in all likelihood be self destructing soon after an HEMP...

..with the world realigning into yet a new world order[/QUOTE]

The foolishness here is presuming again that things will remain static. We dont roll over and die. We will react. It wont be pleasant or pretty but writing us off is a huge mistake.
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Old 06-13-2013, 16:46   #79
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QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]Do you understand the HEMP I am discussing is approximately 300 miles up?
Do you understand that things dont stay static?




So? You ever hear of sounding rockets?
An L1011 at 40,000 can launch a Pegasus rocket. Flying out of either Vandenberg or Wallops Island.

Low earth orbit in no time.


QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
Since we are now relegated to hitching rides with the Russians to get into space.

..and our civilian space effort is still in it's infancy...
[/QUOTE]

Orbital Sciences Corp has been around since the 80s. And we re not talking about going to the ISS.

QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
..and our country would in all likelihood be self destructing soon after an HEMP...

..with the world realigning into yet a new world order[/QUOTE]

The foolishness here is presuming again that things will remain static. We dont roll over and die. We will react. It wont be pleasant or pretty but writing us off is a huge mistake.[/QUOTE]


Obviously we will just have to disagree on this issue..


With your viewpoint...

..we should have won the Korean War..

..as we just came out of WWII victorious. .

..had nuclear weapons & the means of delivering them...

..along with a huge military capability left over from WWII..

(and the beginning Cold War buildup)

..vs the non-nuclear (at that point in time) & impoverished Chinese we had just delivered from Japanese oppression...

..still rebuilding from the devastation of WWII.


So...no way they would send up to a million soldiers across the Yalu River to attack us....right??

As to do so would be suicide. ..right?

Well...history indicates differently!


Unlike Pearl Harbor & the attacks of 9/11 that were localized..

..allowing the untouched remainder of the US to respond effectively...

..an HEMP would be very widespread..

..devastating to a society that has a fragile, aging electrical generation & delivery infrastructure..

..a society dependent on very complex high technology driven just-in-time delivery systems..

..a society that so many consumers depend on so few producers hundreds & thousands of miles away..

..and a society that has a sizable amount of blue state thugs who would violently capitalize on the "opportunity" that a catastrophic event like a nationwide HEMP would provide...IMO!


Believe what you please..

..but a HEMP is the perfect use of a single nuclear weapon against the military/industrial capability of the US for many reasons...IMO

..and for example.. the time is fast approaching for Iran to have both a nuclear & delivery capability..if they do not now.


Look at Iran's long range missile tests..

..the ones that were terminated at HEMP altitudes. .

..and simply ask yourself ....why??


YMMV
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:34   #80
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Do you understand that things dont stay static?




So? You ever hear of sounding rockets?
An L1011 at 40,000 can launch a Pegasus rocket. Flying out of either Vandenberg or Wallops Island.

Low earth orbit in no time.


QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
Since we are now relegated to hitching rides with the Russians to get into space.

..and our civilian space effort is still in it's infancy...
Orbital Sciences Corp has been around since the 80s. And we re not talking about going to the ISS.

QUOTE=LongGun1;20363669]
..and our country would in all likelihood be self destructing soon after an HEMP...

..with the world realigning into yet a new world order[/QUOTE]

The foolishness here is presuming again that things will remain static. We dont roll over and die. We will react. It wont be pleasant or pretty but writing us off is a huge mistake.[/QUOTE]


Obviously we will just have to disagree on this issue..


With your viewpoint...

..we should have won the Korean War..

..as we just came out of WWII victorious. .

..had nuclear weapons & the means of delivering them...

..along with a huge military capability left over from WWII..

(and the beginning Cold War buildup)

..vs the non-nuclear (at that point in time) & impoverished Chinese we had just delivered from Japanese oppression...

..still rebuilding from the devastation of WWII.


So...no way they would send up to a million soldiers across the Yalu River to attack us....right??

As to do so would be suicide. ..right?

Well...history indicates differently!


Unlike Pearl Harbor & the attacks of 9/11 that were localized..

..allowing the untouched remainder of the US to respond effectively...

..an HEMP would be very widespread..

..devastating to a society that has a fragile, aging electrical generation & delivery infrastructure..

..a society dependent on very complex high technology driven just-in-time delivery systems..

..a society that so many consumers depend on so few producers hundreds & thousands of miles away..

..and a society that has a sizable amount of blue state thugs who would violently capitalize on the "opportunity" that a catastrophic event like a nationwide HEMP would provide...IMO!


Believe what you please..

..but a HEMP is the perfect use of a single nuclear weapon against the military/industrial capability of the US for many reasons...IMO

..and for example.. the time is fast approaching for Iran to have both a nuclear & delivery capability..if they do not now.


Look at Iran's long range missile tests..

..the ones that were terminated at HEMP altitudes. .

..and simply ask yourself ....why??


YMMV[/QUOTE]
Aside from ignoring that your last quandry about sampling the isotope was answered, history indicates when youre losing a debate you attempt to change the subject and /or cite irrellevancies and /or use really bad analogies and parallels in an attempt to sound officious.

No one claimed that it wouldnt be bad or highly effective. Im saying that it is also far from perfect and can be responded to and that the outcome is far from certain. So much so that its use is a lot less likely than some would imagine. Its possible, it should be considered and prepared for but its use is of a low order of probability.
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