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Old 04-13-2013, 10:08   #26
Aceman
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Well then, let's talkl nuke preps - like dirty bomb etc...

What do you see as the sensible/practical thing to have - and critical knowledge?
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:22   #27
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I'm better prepared than most.

With knowledge.

There's no kidding around, if it happens, it will be bad. But there are also a lot of myths and fright and ignorance.

I've spent a lot of the past month reading about nuke history, the Russians, what was learned from Hiroshima, etc. Also the 50's era prepping that was done and fallout shelters, principles behind them etc and learned quite a few things.

1. A lot of people made fun of Bert the Turtle and Duck and Cover, but the truth is that is still EXACTLY what you should do if caught in the open and unexpectedly. Even at Hiroshima it was found that so much as leaf cover on a tree could protect bark without leaving a mark, while unleaf'd areas below were singed to carbon.

One survivor was only 300 yards from the hypocenter and lived into the 21st century. She was in a heavily fortified building (bank lobby) but that was all it took.

2. If you are more than 5 miles from a blast, chances are you WILL survive, the only question is, how well. Just being in your house helps, a basement is better. Just being under roof cuts fallout radiation in HALF (though that could still be fatal, depending,) and being in a basement can cut it to one tenth.

3. Radiation is DIRECTIONAL. Its not just floating in the air, unless radioactive dust, fallout etc is floating about. That's why you see post event movies, fiction, etc with people wearing gas masks. A particle the size of a pin head lodged in your lung could cause cancer in just a few years. Simple dust masks help. It's what you breath.

4. Time and distance are your friend. Every passing hour helps; the radiation recedes to its half life and continues to drop in intensity. Just staying underground the first couple of days are immeasurably helpful.

5. Being underground or below viewing level for the first minute are crucial. The duck and cover thing, do it. IF you see an inhumanly bright flash, resist the urge to look out the window and stare, the first few seconds are the worst and radiation from the instantaneous effects can last for up to a minute. Depending on distance you should also continue to stay down for any thermal pulse wave, shock wave and wind blast. More people are actually killed by flying glass and debris than radiation. If you're underground, stay there. You've just been spared the worst.

A month of more of stored water, basic medical supplies can get you thru….I've kept a years supply of food so I would be able to survive indefinitely if the blast weren't near me.

Unfortunately, I live about 7 air miles from the President's nuke bunker in N. VA so unless I have advanced warning or about 35 seconds to make the basement, I'm probably toast.

There is a school of thought that its unwise to pull a decapitation strike since you need someone at the other end to shut off the spigot if you were the victorious attacking power, OTOH that would also be counting on an attacker to think rationally. For a known nuke bunker I'd think they'd use a digger (groundburst) which would attenuate the front loading of the blast wave but would produce a s#$%load of fallout.
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Old 04-13-2013, 14:23   #28
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Nice!

All 22 books for $12.85......or $12.85 each?

Either way ....nice score!

Sorry $12.85 each... If it was the other way I'd buy them all and give them out to anyone interested.

http://www.oism.org/nwss/
Thanx for the link LG 1, good read.


I like the post from G29Reload also...

Good thread Aceman, very good information here.
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Old 04-13-2013, 21:16   #29
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Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been continuously inhabited since the bombs were dropped.

The US has tested over 1,000 nuclear weapons on ourselves.

Don't panic. There are better things to worry about. Stress over this topic if you want, but imho there are other areas that should occupy your thoughts.

Thanks.
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Old 04-13-2013, 22:24   #30
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El Paso has refineries, Fort Bliss (1st Armored Division's home), and White Sands Missile Range. I'm less than 10 miles from all of the above. My best guess is that before I can wonder what that big flash is, I'll be dust in the wind.
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Old 04-13-2013, 22:26   #31
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Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been continuously inhabited since the bombs were dropped.

The US has tested over 1,000 nuclear weapons on ourselves.

Don't panic. There are better things to worry about. Stress over this topic if you want, but imho there are other areas that should occupy your thoughts.

Thanks.
Hiroshima was rebuilt in 5 years.

Surviving the first week after the blast will be the easy part. Its the survivors headed your way that will be the real picnic. Along with finding out if the country is secure from invaders.
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Old 04-13-2013, 23:00   #32
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I have my camping chair and fire set up at the beach. Allll set...
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Old 04-13-2013, 23:01   #33
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to watch them fall in the ocean that is
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Old 04-14-2013, 00:44   #34
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Originally Posted by Liff View Post
Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been continuously inhabited since the bombs were dropped.

The US has tested over 1,000 nuclear weapons on ourselves.

Don't panic. There are better things to worry about. Stress over this topic if you want, but imho there are other areas that should occupy your thoughts.

Thanks.

Yes, like the POTUS.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:37   #35
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The really scary thing about this thread is how sensible it is.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:47   #36
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The really scary thing about this thread is how sensible it is.
It is a sobering thought, it actually occurring. But we've also had an actual event falling on real humans (H+N) plus scads of tests. There are measurements and metrics, case studies, developed scientific knowledge, and planning and prepping CAN mitigate the disaster.

Imagine, only 2 or three actually go off. Then the fighting stops. They talk to prevent it from continuing.

The borders are secured by the military. Relief efforts begin.

Lets say you're 50 miles from one of the blasts.

Your house survives because of the distance.

Luck continues your way because the winds are going the other, taking the fallout with it.

The power is off, but its the end of winter. Say, March first.

You have a basement for contingencies.

You have a years' supply of food and a clean water source.
BECAUSE YOU PREPPED!


Guess what? You'll be ok. You hunker down to avoid food riots, stay home from work for a few months, keep a sidearm on and take shifts with your wife watching the perimeter.

Now, that's a best case scenario. But it is a possible outcome, and there's a path there.

Anything you do extra helps if its worse…the bomb could be closer, there could be more of them…you might have to default to basement living, relief could take longer, it could be winter….

But you live where you live now knowing what you need under ordinary conditions…think about how you handle that when things are adverse…power, water collection…make a list that's reasonable and start filling it.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26   #37
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A wee bit sarcastic.'08.
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Old 04-14-2013, 14:31   #38
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Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Hiroshima was rebuilt in 5 years.
Yeah, but that was back in the 1940s in Japan. That could never happen today in the U.S. We couldn't even replace the WTC buildings in 10 years.
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Old 04-14-2013, 15:15   #39
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Obviously, a direct hit is a moot point. But after we get outside the serious destruction and vaporization zone, how well geared up (Knowledge, skill, and materials) are you to survive?

Me, not really at all. I've got a lot of other things on my list above that. A lot of my current preps would help me avoid exposure, but I don't pack iodine, lead lined rooms, gieger counters etc...I just feel that a lot of Nuke survival would be about highly specialized gear, lots of training, and in reality I'd have neither and be fooling myself. But I could be wrong.

Just an entertaining consideration, given NK's wackiness. You know what if they had channeled all there efforts into one stealthy bird and it actually caught a good tailwind, and USAF failed to respond due to disbelief it could happen, etc...
Not at all. I am not downwind of a nuc power plant and honestly I seriously doubt if NK is going to waste a nuc on my home town.

If I lived in a major port, then this would be a bigger concern to me. The likeliest scenario in my opinion is that somebody will sneak a nuc into a container vessel. That would permit anybody with even the most rudimentary skill/materials to deliver a working nuc. A harbor blast would pretty much shut down any major metropolitan area too (decontamination would be hugely expensive). That is about the most damaging single attack I think anybody could make on us. Imagine what losing LA or NYC would do to our economy.
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Old 04-14-2013, 18:54   #40
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Yeah, but that was back in the 1940s in Japan. That could never happen today in the U.S. We couldn't even replace the WTC buildings in 10 years.
Not a fair comparison. Wtc wasnt a residence. And it was politically sensitive both in appearance location and significance. Compound ownership and control issues.
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Old 04-14-2013, 22:13   #41
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Not a fair comparison. Wtc wasnt a residence. And it was politically sensitive both in appearance location and significance. Compound ownership and control issues.
Perhaps it wasn't a fair comparison, but I still say you couldn't rebuild an American city after a nuke strike within five years. For one thing, some government agency would declare the area was unsafe and not allow anyone within some arbitrary distance of the city.
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Old 04-14-2013, 22:19   #42
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Perhaps it wasn't a fair comparison, but I still say you couldn't rebuild an American city after a nuke strike within five years. For one thing, some government agency would declare the area was unsafe and not allow anyone within some arbitrary distance of the city.
Don't forget the political and legal wranglings when some Imam wants to build a Mosque on the site.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:44   #43
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Grab any old Army NBC manuals you can find...some of the older ones are a little scarce, but they are better than the newer ones.

Do some reading on dosimetry. Once you understand the dose/rate you get a better perspective on how to measure what's out there. Anecdotes about survivng a blast in a safe give false hope...you may not be vaporized, but you will absorb a lethal dose in moments...or at least when you come outfor air.

Look up the charts that show materials and the thicknesses needed. Hopefully distance from a potential target area is your friend.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:00   #44
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I'm not. You're not. None of us are.

I was a NBC training NCO in the Marines.
Nukes suck but not as bad as Bio.
This^^^

Right after 9/11 I am watching every idiot buying gas masks...and have no flipping clue how to use it. Most of them had the wrong filters let alone how to don the mask and purge it.

Then I am watching on the news on "How to use the gasmask"...and the dumb butt brought the mask up from his waste to his face...guess what he just scooped up...

Hell, I worked directly with Minuteman III's, GLCM's, SHRAMS..and those little bio/chem things we were not supposed to have. And even though we were highly trained, live it with everyday, they told us that we would experience a 30 to 40% mortality rate.

I guess it is a good thing we are at least aware of it...but the only thing I know that will increase your chances is to move to an area that has no target priority.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:14   #45
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not prepared at all for nukes/radiation in the actual hot or even warm zone...

I don't believe that I (or the overwhelming vast majority of people for that matter) can be fully prepared for everything. I know a fair amount about radiation, but don't know near enough NOR do I care to spend the time and effort to learn more about it. Acquiring and maintaining the equipment that would be necessary to effectively "prepare" for a nuclear attack is simply not gonna happen at my place.

We prepare for everything "in general" and very few "specifically". Radiation is a long shot, but the affected human "fallout" of people in a post-attack, chaotic nation is my main source of concern.
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Old 04-16-2013, 16:19   #46
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I have my camping chair and fire set up at the beach. Allll set...
I know this was made in jest but there is actually some truth/wisdom here.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:50   #47
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I'm not. You're not. None of us are.

I was a NBC training NCO in the Marines.
Nukes suck but not as bad as Bio.
+1

Doesn't take a factory full of centrifuges to produce a weapon of mass destruction.

These guys took a virus with a >50% mortality rate that wasn't transmissible when one coughed/sneezed, and gave it the ability to jump via aerosol (cough/sneeze).

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/33.../1534.abstract
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:12   #48
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If a dirty bomb were to go off in a major city...NY, Miami, Chicago...anywhere prepped or not it will affect every human being in the U.S for the rest of our lives.

You think passing things like the Patriot Act, the formation of the TSA and Homeland Security were bad....watch the government drive the fear of the average American voter after a nuke or even dirty bomb goes off.
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Old 04-17-2013, 21:43   #49
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Obviously, a direct hit is a moot point. But after we get outside the serious destruction and vaporization zone, how well geared up (Knowledge, skill, and materials) are you to survive?

Me, not really at all. I've got a lot of other things on my list above that. A lot of my current preps would help me avoid exposure, but I don't pack iodine, lead lined rooms, gieger counters etc...I just feel that a lot of Nuke survival would be about highly specialized gear, lots of training, and in reality I'd have neither and be fooling myself. But I could be wrong.

Just an entertaining consideration, given NK's wackiness. You know what if they had channeled all there efforts into one stealthy bird and it actually caught a good tailwind, and USAF failed to respond due to disbelief it could happen, etc...
tss... not at all. I refuse to live in THAT level of fear/paranoia.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:28   #50
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". . . a lot of Nuke survival would be about highly specialized gear, lots of training. . . ".

Not really. There are different types of radiation. Moreover, the different types have different half lives.

The radiation one typically encounters is one of four types: alpha radiation, beta radiation, gamma radiation, and x radiation.

So, let's speculate. You are in downtown Houston at a high rise. NK launched a strike and you know with absolute certainty that Houston will be hit. So, you go to the deepest level of the subterranean garage. Now you have protection. However, the building may collapse. You may have to stay days without food or water. There will be fires raging. People will be foraging like ants and dying because of various illnesses that are kept under some control by sanitation and regular garbage pickups.

So, it isn't a matter of needing specialized gear. The problem is that it is simply one more challenge to the load that exists in virtually all extended shtf scenarios.
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