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Old 04-09-2013, 08:33   #201
Z71bill
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Simple enough question -

If SS is in fact viable - why do we need to increase the national debt ceiling in order to keep issuing SS checks?

It sure seems like if the SS system was completely solvent that they would not be dependent on the debt ceiling -

Or to put it another way for the slow learners -

If the US government can't borrow money SS checks don't go out.

If you had to borrow money ever time you made a car payment, mortgage payment, bought food, filled up your car with gas - and if your CC was lost you would not be able buy anything - would you consider yourself to be in good financial condition?

Duh.

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Old 04-09-2013, 08:47   #202
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Simple enough question -

If SS is in fact viable - why do we need to increase the national debt ceiling in order to keep issuing SS checks?

It sure seems like if the SS system was completely solvent that they would not be dependent on the debt ceiling -

Or to put it another way for the slow learners -

If the US government can't borrow money SS checks don't go out.

If you had to borrow money ever time you made a car payment, mortgage payment, bought food, filled up your car with gas - and if your CC was lost you would not be able buy anything - would you consider yourself to be in good financial condition?

Duh.

Winner.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:55   #203
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That is how it works for years. The young pay taxes for senior benefits. The future of the young is senior and one day it will be your turn to draw.

If you become disable you can draw or if you die your family may qualify to draw.
Why the hell would ANYONE believe that the government should be directly involved in the private lives of individual Americans?

Do you believe in and support fascism?


I've paid into SS since 1973.
I will happily sign away any claim to that money TODAY in exchange for the Socialist inSecurity administration's written promise to stay out of my life.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:58   #204
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It didn't happen on your watch!?

You vote, don't you?

I guess that's another boomer trait, lack of social responsibility.
It doesn't matter how I vote in California. I am so totally outnumbered that it isn't even worth filling in the ballot. But I do it anyway. Always have!

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:11   #205
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[quote=certifiedfunds;20165107]The credit bubble? Thanks boomers.
[quote]

Don't thank me, thank the Feds. They created the legislation that allowed banks to loan to people who could never possibly pay back the loans. Banks figured out how to eliminate their risk by securitizing the loans and selling them off. They're not stupid! They knew the people could never afford the interest rate hike.

The idea behind these questionable loans was that if people owned their own houses, social unrest might be reduced.

If you read the paper last week, you will see where Obama wants to start the program again. Seems the banks have decided to only loan to people of means - somewhere north of a 700 credit score. The idea of being sued (again) by Fannie, Freddie or FHA doesn't appeal to the banks.

It used to be that banks couldn't even write home mortgages. That was strictly the province of the Savings and Loans. It also used to be that a down payment was required and people actually had to have a job and prove their income.

But it was the government that changed the rules. They actually FORCED banks to get into the risky loan business.

Around here, individual homeowners aren't able to buy houses even with a decent credit score. In Silicon Valley, the properties are being bought by 'all-cash' buyers or investors.

Things are recovering but not in a good way for the average worker.

Quote:
Btw, you sold your house on the cheap. Bad timing
Yes, I should have held on another year or so. But health issues prevailed and I decided to retire early. Still, not too bad compared to what would have happened had I held on for 3 or 4 years.

You just can't time a market.

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:26   #206
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Simple enough question -

If SS is in fact viable - why do we need to increase the national debt ceiling in order to keep issuing SS checks?

It sure seems like if the SS system was completely solvent that they would not be dependent on the debt ceiling -

Or to put it another way for the slow learners -

If the US government can't borrow money SS checks don't go out.

If you had to borrow money ever time you made a car payment, mortgage payment, bought food, filled up your car with gas - and if your CC was lost you would not be able buy anything - would you consider yourself to be in good financial condition?

Duh.
As I understand it, SS collected cash and loaned it to the government in exchange for T bills which would become due and payable in the future plus a little interest. So, SS is sitting on a pile of T bills and now they want to cash them in.

The problem is that the other segments of the government can't afford to pay back the money that SS needs. So, the government needs to borrow it somewhere else and that means they need to raise the debt ceiling.

This is a lot like the idea that if I bought E series bonds (which I used to do) that when I went to the bank to cash them in, all I would get is "Sorry, no money left!".

The full faith and credit of the US just isn't what it used to be!

In any event, if we would get out of these middle east adventures, there just might be a whole lot of money to spend on other things.

It used to be that the US was dependent on the middle east for oil. That is no longer the case, the US is now a net exporter. We don't need the region and there's no reason to pour our wealth down that rathole.

While we're at it, how about fixing the roads around here instead of those in Bangladesh? Knock off the foreign aide for a decade or so while we get our own house in order.

Richard
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:31   #207
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....
The full faith and credit of the US just isn't what it used to be!
...
This was inevitable.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:43   #208
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As I understand it, SS collected cash and loaned it to the government in exchange for T bills which would become due and payable in the future plus a little interest. So, SS is sitting on a pile of T bills and now they want to cash them in.

The problem is that the other segments of the government can't afford to pay back the money that SS needs. So, the government needs to borrow it somewhere else and that means they need to raise the debt ceiling.

This is a lot like the idea that if I bought E series bonds (which I used to do) that when I went to the bank to cash them in, all I would get is "Sorry, no money left!".

The full faith and credit of the US just isn't what it used to be!

In any event, if we would get out of these middle east adventures, there just might be a whole lot of money to spend on other things.

It used to be that the US was dependent on the middle east for oil. That is no longer the case, the US is now a net exporter. We don't need the region and there's no reason to pour our wealth down that rathole.

While we're at it, how about fixing the roads around here instead of those in Bangladesh? Knock off the foreign aide for a decade or so while we get our own house in order.

Richard
There are a few twists and turns involved in securities the treasury issues to the SS "trust" fund.

They only pay 2% interest - they can not be sold to anyone except back to the treasury - they are included in the debt ceiling calculation.

Many people (like Ben Bernanke) do not consider them as part of the national debt.

In round numbers the national debt is $17 trillion but $5 trillion of that is debt between different parts of the government.

The SS administration holds about $3 trillion - Federal pensions about $1 trillion - another trillion between FDIC, unemployment compensation fund, and all the rest.

Again it depends on how you want to look at it.

Can you (or anyone) really owe money to yourself?

Loan yourself a trillion dollars - borrow a trillion dollars from yourself - are you any richer or poorer?

These specific rules matter in some ways - but the bottom line is not changed.

The day the US government can no longer borrow additional money the SS checks will not be sent out.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:03   #209
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As I understand it
I'm having trouble keeping up with all of the things that you "understand" wrong.
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In any event, if we would get out of these middle east adventures, there just might be a whole lot of money to spend on other things.

It used to be that the US was dependent on the middle east for oil. That is no longer the case, the US is now a net exporter.
Yeah, not at all true. We import 40+% of the oil that we use in this country.

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While we're at it, how about fixing the roads around here instead of those in Bangladesh? Knock off the foreign aide for a decade or so while we get our own house in order.
Foreign aid is quite literally a drop in the bucket. Social Security matters, foreign aid directionally does not.
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Old 04-09-2013, 23:54   #210
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Would love to get in one of your "till the end of eternity" arguments CF, but need to go eat a fillet, thanks again for your contributions.
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Old 04-10-2013, 00:03   #211
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Geez guys, don't those chips on your shoulders ever get heavy? These arguments about money go on forever, nobody learns anything from them, and seldom does anybody stop talking about butt hurts and problems and offer realistic solutions. In case you didn't get the memo, life is unfair!
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:24   #212
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If someone steals from me, I demand restitution.

I shed no tears for the younger (under 30) voters who overwhelmingly (66%) elected Obama.

You sound just as much as a collectivist with that statement, as an Obama voter.

In fact, I bet if Obama ran under the republican name, you'd be telling us how great he is.

You're a sheep that simply votes any liberal with an "R" next to their name.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:27   #213
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Obama is grabbing you guns, SS, Medicare and taxing the middle class. Veterans will take a hit too.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:36   #214
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When you were in the war zone with John Kerry, you received pay checks.

Did they clear?

You're welcome!


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I do have a life, so I just saw this reply of yours, I would much rather have him with me in combat than a keyboard warrior like you, no question about it. Your fingers are you weapon, not too good in battle.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:46   #215
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Actually, that's less than 8% annualized growth. You must have been too busy being the best educated generation in the history of the planet to learn any math.
owned.
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Old 04-10-2013, 17:59   #216
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I've calculated that I have received about 6 times the amount I contributed since I started paying in 1959. Some of you were just born at the wrong time in history.
And this seems to be the central argument in favor of keeping this massive, broken entitlement system that is bankrupting the nation and represents in large part the rapid decline of all of Western Civilization.

"I don't care if you're getting screwed right now and our entire country including me is getting screwed by this in the long run - all that matters to me is I'm making out like a bandit right now; it matters not a whit to me who is getting screwed over to make this possible.

It is interesting to note that one of the most noteworthy hallmarks of sociopathic, non-integrous behavior is a fundamental inability, not just a simple lack of willingness, to consider and act upon the greater context of the long-term repercussions of one's actions, or the actions of the group of which one is a part.
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Old 04-10-2013, 18:18   #217
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AC37,

Very nicely written. Where did you go to school and what year did you graduate?
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Old 04-10-2013, 18:27   #218
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I've been talking to a few people about this, and I am pretty surprised to find a fairly common theme. And it doesn't seem to matter the background of these people.

"I PAID MY MONEY INTO THIS SYSTEM FOR YEARS! MONEY I WORKED HARD FOR! I WANT THE MONEY THAT IS OWED ME!"

um, well mike, the money is gone.

"I DON'T CARE! THE MONEY WENT INTO THE GENERAL FUND, TAKE IT BACK OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND! IT ISN'T MY FAULT THEY MISMANAGED MY MONEY!"

One of the guys who said this would get most of your votes for president on all other issues.
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Old 04-10-2013, 18:36   #219
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I've been talking to a few people about this, and I am pretty surprised to find a fairly common theme. And it doesn't seem to matter the background of these people.

"I PAID MY MONEY INTO THIS SYSTEM FOR YEARS! MONEY I WORKED HARD FOR! I WANT THE MONEY THAT IS OWED ME!"

um, well mike, the money is gone.

"I DON'T CARE! THE MONEY WENT INTO THE GENERAL FUND, TAKE IT BACK OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND! IT ISN'T MY FAULT THEY MISMANAGED MY MONEY!"

One of the guys who said this would get most of your votes for president on all other issues.
Did you ask him why he hated his children and grandchildren so much?


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Old 04-10-2013, 18:37   #220
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I do have a life, so I just saw this reply of yours, I would much rather have him with me in combat than a keyboard warrior like you, no question about it. Your fingers are you weapon, not too good in battle.
And you would deserve him. He's a swell guy. He agrees that you should get your welfare check.

2 peas in a pod


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Old 04-10-2013, 19:03   #221
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Did you ask him why he hated his children and grandchildren so much?


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No. He is a good guy who sincerely tries to be a better person.
I find I do a lot better being nice to people who are nice.

I'm sure there are people right in this thread you can hit over the head with a hammer if you feel inclined.
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For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:23   #222
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No. He is a good guy who sincerely tries to be a better person.
I find I do a lot better being nice to people who are nice.

I'm sure there are people right in this thread you can hit over the head with a hammer if you feel inclined.
If they come to steal in person I can. That's why they send the government to do it for them


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Old 04-10-2013, 19:27   #223
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If they come to steal in person I can. That's why they send the government to do it for them


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As a side note it is interesting how republicans are now tripping all over each other to say what a monster Obama is for daring to threaten SS benefits.
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For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:38   #224
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As a side note it is interesting how republicans are now tripping all over each other to say what a monster Obama is for daring to threaten SS benefits.
No kidding.

He dares to cut a nanny state socialistic welfare program and they howl.

They hate socialism until their teat is threatened


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Old 04-10-2013, 19:51   #225
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Safer than Wall street for the average investor. Just think how bad off we would have been if we privatized it back in 2005 or so when that was the hot button. All of that money would have been hit in 2008.

The system is solid. Some problems, yes... but workable.
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