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Old 04-07-2013, 19:51   #76
VA27
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Not to worry, once the obamacare death panels kick in SS will be solvent again in pretty short order. I'll start drawing mine in a coupla years and I figure I'll have about 15 good years before my panel interview. By then my check ought to cover a 24-pack so I can show up for my interview looking and feeling my best!
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:02   #77
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Hey, now! A bit judgmental aren't we?

FWIW I use my SS to pay the taxes on my unearned income stream...any left over goes toward property taxes.

So, in my case, the younger generation that pays into SS is supporting folks their own age who are on welfare and unemployment.

If you're going to be harsh, at least keep your boogie men straight. In some cases, a mirror might help.
Who labeled the the Boomers the "Me generation" due to their self-absorbed, narcissistic qualities?

Does the truth hurt? It should.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:06   #78
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Actually, that's less than 8% annualized growth. You must have been too busy being the best educated generation in the history of the planet to learn any math.
It's a lot better than 8% because it also provided shelter for all those years. And, of course, the mortgage interest was deductible and, in effect, the government was making half of my payment.

Considering the interest currently being paid on CDs, 8% seems pretty good! I wonder how the S&P did over the years of 1986 to 2003 (including the crashes)?

I would take 8% sustained over ANY of the investments I am currently holding. If I could turn my 401k's into 8% investments, I would be paying someone else to type this!

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Old 04-07-2013, 20:08   #79
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They should have saved more, then.
I've been a CPA for about 30 years. I am amazed how many clients, some with 6 figure incomes, have no savings, no retirement plan, but do have a first and second mortgage and home equity line of credit.

Sometimes I can get a client to fund an IRA, SEP, or contribute the max to his company's 401k plan. Sadly, much too often, they end up raiding their retirement plans within a few years.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:10   #80
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So devildog2067, what are you going to tell the generations behind you when they ask why you allowed the FED to create trillions in debt on your watch?

Pissing an moaning may not cut it for them.

I'm thinking Homeland Security should be buying Huggies for you instead bullets for who know what.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:10   #81
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Jesus Christ, shut up with the liberal BS already. Seniors are far wealthier than the people being taxed to pad their banks accounts. Life sucks, and if you didn't lift a finger to see to your own well-being after several decades, then I have very little sympathy. Get your **** together, and stop expecting me to pay your way in life.
Thank god I didn't have to be the one to say it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:10   #82
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Not to worry, once the obamacare death panels kick in SS will be solvent again in pretty short order. I'll start drawing mine in a coupla years and I figure I'll have about 15 good years before my panel interview. By then my check ought to cover a 24-pack so I can show up for my interview looking and feeling my best!
Yup!

Remember the movie "Solyent Green"? It's about to become a reality show!

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"
Well, that's the way I have lived mine! I have been a lot of places and done a lot of things. It's been a great ride!

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Old 04-07-2013, 20:12   #83
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I've been a CPA for about 30 years. I am amazed how many clients, some with 6 figure incomes, have no savings, no retirement plan, but do have a first and second mortgage and home equity line of credit.

Sometimes I can get a client to fund an IRA, SEP, or contribute the max to his company's 401k plan. Sadly, much too often, they end up raiding their retirement plans within a few years.
It's weird how people now have this way of thinking that they will just be taken care of when they get older. But it really is very common now.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:12   #84
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So devildog2067, what are you going to tell the generations behind you when they ask why you allowed the FED to create trillions in debt on your watch?

Pissing an moaning may not cut it for them.

I'm thinking Homeland Security should be buying Huggies for you instead bullets for who know what.
The .gov is being run by radical boomers of the '60s.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:13   #85
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It's a lot better than 8% because it also provided shelter for all those years.
Yes, you lived in it all those years. No, that doesn't change the math of how much the annualized returns were.

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Considering the interest currently being paid on CDs, 8% seems pretty good! I wonder how the S&P did over the years of 1986 to 2003 (including the crashes)?
A bit over 8% by price. 11 and some change if you reinvested the dividends.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:14   #86
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So devildog2067, what are you going to tell the generations behind you when they ask why you allowed the FED to create trillions in debt on your watch?
I don't know. Honestly it keeps me up at night, sometimes. My daughter is 9.

I do know that I'm not going to steal their money to fund my lifestyle.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:14   #87
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Strange you mentioned "gravy train".

Without that generous monthly social security check, many seniors won't be able to buy food. Seniors are going to be sneaking into neighborhood backyards to see if the family dog left them a bit of kibble in the food dish.

Gravy Train is a fav. Excellent dog food- just add warm water and it makes its own gravy right there in the bowl. Dogs love it and seniors in your neighborhood will appreciate it, too.
I should not be forced to subsidize a lifetime of foolishness that put them in that predicament.


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Old 04-07-2013, 20:16   #88
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I plan to but thanks for offering...

We tried to tell everybody that houses were overpriced but everybody was smarter than us. So, we sold them our houses and bought them back cheaper than we sold them. Greenspan made the comment clear back in 2004 that ARM loans would destroy borrowers. Actually, I think he made a similar comment back in 2001. But, no, the kids were smart! They just knew they could flip that house and be an instant millionaire.

It was a big game of musical chairs and everybody was happy until the music stopped. I bought a small house in '86 for 81k and sold it in 2003 for $290k. The profit was obscene! But I kept it...



Well, the folks who need SS probably don't have disposable income to play with guns and therefore they don't hang around on gun related forums.

Do you really think that $1700/mo SS means anything? It's only slightly more than minimum wage. It covers some of my hobbies but certainly not all. OTOH, I don't have to get up in the morning to get it

Richard
The credit bubble? Thanks boomers.

Btw, you sold your house on the cheap. Bad timing




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Old 04-07-2013, 20:18   #89
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I don't know. Honestly it keeps me up at night, sometimes. My daughter is 9.

I do know that I'm not going to steal their money to fund my lifestyle.
Hell of an answer man. I don't know either - I'm not drawing SS. But, I clearly remember the Gov doubling our SS taxes with a promise that the added 'tax' would fund Boomers SS. Now younger generations are asking how it was allowed to happen.

The fact is, it's still happening. I guess the Gov will default and start over. Maybe that's what all the bullets are for.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:18   #90
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What?
You need to do a little more research
You seem to know, why not share?
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:19   #91
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Considering the interest currently being paid on CDs, 8% seems pretty good! I wonder how the S&P did over the years of 1986 to 2003 (including the crashes)?
Jan 1986: 238.9
Jan 2003: 848.2

255%, not including dividends.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:21   #92
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Originally Posted by Glotin

.

"Savings do nothing for an economy." - With that statement, you demonstrate that you don't know how an economy works.





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If everybody just saves their money, in a bank or worse, under the bed, there IS no economy. Economies are feedback loops. One person working making money to buy stuff from another person working. If they don't buy stuff, nobody works. Ask Japan... Their economy has been stagnant for decades even with 0% interest rates. They can't even GIVE money to industries to expand.

Simple example: Fast food restaurants. They survive because people work long hours and would gladly trade cash for cooked food. If people stopped making that trade, half of the workers in the country would be unemployed.

There's a reason that job growth is in the 'services' industry. The kids don't know enough to get a job anywhere other than flippin' burgers. We send all the technical work elsewhere. Make of that what you will. It's not because of labor rates...

It is true, however, that my degrees are in engineering, not economics. I did take Econ 101, of course, but I never really had no interest in it. The adventures are in engineering!

Richard
Glotin is correct -

Where does the money to build the fast food place - stock it with food - come from?

Far as I know - all economists think there is a strong connection between savings and investments.

Without savings there would be very limited investments.

Pretty simple if you think about it.

BTW - before you say they could just borrow the money to invest - you need to think a little bit - banks generally loan money from deposits - people putting money in the bank is sort of saving it.

I am not saying people spending money is not also important.

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Old 04-07-2013, 20:23   #93
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I don't know. Honestly it keeps me up at night, sometimes. My daughter is 9.

I do know that I'm not going to steal their money to fund my lifestyle.
I went out this evening with my 14 year old boy to help clear land. He has decided he wants to eventually build his house on our land so that he doesn't have to buy it, and he can be near us.
He doesn't like school so he wants me to start training him in sharpening right now so that he can start earning immediately,and begin building his house as he has the money, to avoid ever having a mortgage. Then he wants to join the military when he turns 18, just because he wants to and the opportunity is there.
He has learned to be totally debt free, frugal, and very self sufficient.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:25   #94
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So devildog2067, what are you going to tell the generations behind you when they ask why you allowed the FED to create trillions in debt on your watch?

Pissing an moaning may not cut it for them.

I'm thinking Homeland Security should be buying Huggies for you instead bullets for who know what.
I'm going to tell them it was because the boomers were greedy, stupid or didn't care that they were wrecking our future.

I'll explain to them that social security, Medicare and DOD consumed 100% of federal revenues. The boomers didn't care. They just wanted their handouts. They unionized to protect them.

I'll tell them I'm sorry we were too weak to stop the looting.


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Old 04-07-2013, 20:39   #95
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That's an utterly stupid statement. America still has the world's most educated, talented, technically able workforce of any country in the world. We make the vast bulk of the world's highly engineered manufactured goods, be they airplanes or locomotives or turbines or heavy machinery.
We do and will, for a little longer. Many of the boomers are still working because the cutoff date is in '64 or so. Personally, I consider the boomers to be those born almost immediately after the war because I could have easily had offspring by '64 or so.

The problem is that the cost of paying for the majority who are unemployable will soon overwhelm the ability of the working class to pay. Look at the 'Golden State' with a negative net worth of more than 100 BILLION $. Businesses aren't growing here, the heyday is over. Now it's tax the few working and give to those who never have. California is the welfare capital of the country.

As to comparing airplanes, there is at least one major competitor to Boeing and they seem pretty credible. Ever lived in Germany? They have a pretty good educational system and their workmanship is top notch. If you are a machinist in Germany, you KNOW your trade.

Our educational system doesn't come close to that of Singapore. If you haven't worked there, you should try it. You will be amazed!

Locomotives? Sure, GE builds great engines. But the other day I heard that one of our rapid transit districts was going to buy their new cars from China. What's that about? We can't even build a passenger car for rapid transit. Why is it even legal to buy public goods from foreign companies?

GE builds great turbines as well. In fact, GE is a terrific company. It was the best company I ever worked for. If you couldn't succeed at GE, you just were never going to succeed.

But what happened to all the skilled blue collar jobs? When I was growing up, there were machine shops all over the place (I worked in one before I got drafted and worked there again after I got out). The space program produced jobs at all skill levels. Now these companies are gone. The skilled workers are doing something lesser, I suppose.

Which brings me to July 20, 1969 when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. Six Apollo missions have landed and 12 astronauts have walked on the moon between '69 and '72. What have you youngsters done lately? Sent a robot to Mars. Not exactly impressive.

You youngsters need to suck it up and get to work. Show us what you got...

Richard
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:54   #96
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We do and will, for a little longer. Many of the boomers are still working because the cutoff date is in '64 or so.
Yes, there are many baby boomers still in the workforce. But statistically, most workers are not from that generation. Your odd idea that only baby boomers are educated or productive makes no sense, and has no basis in fact. Later generations are more highly educated than yours was.

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The problem is that the cost of paying for the majority who are unemployable will soon overwhelm the ability of the working class to pay.
Nope--it's not the costs of supporting those who are unemployable, it's the costs of supporting old people. Medicare and Social Security are the big spend items. Welfare matters, but it's a drop in the bucket next to those two things.

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Look at the 'Golden State' with a negative net worth of more than 100 BILLION $
And how much of that is pension liability?

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Businesses aren't growing here
Again, that's a stupid statement. We literally invent new kinds of businesses here. How much wealth has Google created over the last two decades? Facebook?

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the heyday is over.
Now, that might be true. This is what I worry about when I can't sleep at night. But look at the UK--they haven't been truly relevant on the world stage in 60+ years, and while they're declining slowly they're no third-world hellhole either. The US has a lot of good years left in it.

It'd have more, if people like you didn't insist on getting yours even though you know full well "yours" was gone decades ago.

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As to comparing airplanes
When did I say anything about "comparing" airplanes? You said we don't make anything here anymore, I said bull**** we make airplanes.

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there is at least one major competitor to Boeing and they seem pretty credible. Ever lived in Germany?
As a matter of fact, I have.

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They have a pretty good educational system and their workmanship is top notch. If you are a machinist in Germany, you KNOW your trade.
They do. Yet their physicists still come to the US to do their PhDs. What does that tell you?

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Our educational system doesn't come close to that of Singapore.
Their PhD students come here, too.

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But what happened to all the skilled blue collar jobs? When I was growing up, there were machine shops all over the place (I worked in one before I got drafted and worked there again after I got out). The space program produced jobs at all skill levels. Now these companies are gone. The skilled workers are doing something lesser, I suppose.
Robots replaced some of them. Japanese, then Korean, then Chinese workers replaced others. The fact is, the days of being able to live a middle-class lifestyle on a factory job were only ever a historical accident. They'll come back if we ever have another world war that drives massive government investment in US industry while simultaneously bombing every competing country flat.

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Which brings me to July 20, 1969 when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. Six Apollo missions have landed and 12 astronauts have walked on the moon between '69 and '72. What have you youngsters done lately? Sent a robot to Mars. Not exactly impressive.

You youngsters need to suck it up and get to work. Show us what you got...
I, personally, helped to build the most powerful particle accelerator in the history of the human race. What part, exactly, did you play in the Apollo program?

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Old 04-07-2013, 20:56   #97
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:58   #98
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Originally Posted by Glotin

.

"Savings do nothing for an economy." - With that statement, you demonstrate that you don't know how an economy works.







Glotin is correct -

Where does the money to build the fast food place - stock it with food - come from?

Far as I know - all economists think there is a strong connection between savings and investments.

Without savings there would be very limited investments.

Pretty simple if you think about it.

BTW - before you say they could just borrow the money to invest - you need to think a little bit - banks generally loan money from deposits - people putting money in the bank is sort of saving it.

I am not saying people spending money is not also important.
Clearly you need some of both. Banks can't usually lend money they don't have but businesses aren't created without customers.

Government interferes with the process by injecting money into the economy to make up for the lack of funds in banking. This allows growth without savings but it ultimately leads to inflation.

If we ever get out of this depression, it will be because the government has printed a huge amount of money for which future generations are indebted. Even then it hasn't worked.

If you don't believe that 'buying' is important to an economy, why does Wall Street pay attention to 'consumer confidence'? Or the 'purchasing managers' report? Buying is demand and demand increases supply and increasing supply causes expansion and employment.

The problem with this recovery is that while the GDP has recovered nicely and the stock market is at record levels, employment hasn't improved much. The only reason that unemployment is dropping is because people are losing eligibility.

I maintain that if a person hasn't found a job in 26 weeks, they probably won't work again. The idea of providing unemployment benefits for 99 weeks is ridiculous. Almost two years without getting out of their jammies! They're never going back to work. So when they run out of unemployment, they apply for disability.

This is what the country has to look forward to. It didn't happen on my watch!

Richard
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Old 04-07-2013, 21:07   #99
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, personally, helped to build the most powerful particle accelerator in the history of the human race. What part, exactly, did you play in the Apollo program?
I worked in a machine shop repairing the machinery that built components for the space program. I didn't personally build anything for the program but I helped those who did.

The little shop I worked for (probably 100 employees) did almost exclusively government work of one kind or another.

I think the 'boomers' will probably claim CERN as well. I would expect most of the physicists to be in the 'boomer' generation. Maybe not...

Richard
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Old 04-07-2013, 21:11   #100
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I think the 'boomers' will probably claim CERN as well. I would expect most of the physicists to be in the 'boomer' generation. Maybe not...
You're insane. Next you'll be claiming that baby boomers invented fire and the wheel.

I worked there. Most of the physicists are in their late 20's. Their advisors are in their late 40's. Almost no one is in their 60's--at that stage of a physicist's career, they're either an administrator, or they're too old to keep up.

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