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Old 03-27-2013, 10:31   #126
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Somebody please explain why ammo/mags/firearms are held to a different standard than any other product/commodity that's bought and sold. I keep asking but none of the emotional people will answer.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:34   #127
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Got to agree here. If you are purchasing it for someone else that is going to purchase it from you it is a straw purchase. Regardless of whether they are prohibited, you are lying on the 4473. If you told the truth that you were buying it for someone else and being repaid for it, the store would refuse the sale.

What that guy from the Facebook page is doing is walking on a frayed tightrope. He openly admitted he was purchasing the firearms for resale which means he is lying on the 4473 for every firearm he is buying for that purpose. Aside from that, BATFE has a well documented history of interpreting laws the way they see fit. In fact many of the laws they enforce are written very open ended to allow such vague interpretations. The one on the purchase and resale of a firearm seems pretty cut and dried though. This guy is doing something ILLEGAL, and he openly admitted it on Facebook leaving BATFE the ability to potentially hit him with a straw purchase for every firearm he has purchased that he no longer has possesion of. This guy is an absolute idiot and has no understanding of what the consequences of his actions could potentially be.
And if it's a private sale? Say some one buys a firearm, not because they want it but because it's a good deal. They want to flip it, trade it whatever. Is that illegal?
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:27   #128
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Let's just say that I'd like to happen to the current ammo speculators what happened to the tulip bulb speculators a few hundred years ago...
I hope we don't "go Dutch"
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:35   #129
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... I'll refrain from posting a picture of how many 147gr 9mm bullets I have ready to be reloaded
Without primers, they may have to stay ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427 View Post
And if it's a private sale? Say some one buys a firearm, not because they want it but because it's a good deal. They want to flip it, trade it whatever. Is that illegal?
No, it is not illegal.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:39   #130
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I have 150 rounds of .45. If I can find some, I will buy some. I won't buy all of it though. To each his/her own. I have alot more things to worry about than how much ammunition I have. Don't get me wrong, I love to shoot but it's not life or death.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:43   #131
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Without primers, they may have to stay ready.
I thought "ready" implied that I had enough primers, which I do. Just need to shoot some more to get more brass
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:44   #132
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I bought 200 rounds of .45 ACP in December to break in a new gun. First factory ammo I'd bought in a year or more. It was before the crisis, though, so I didn't contribute to the shortage.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:45   #133
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Somebody please explain why ammo/mags/firearms are held to a different standard than any other product/commodity that's bought and sold. I keep asking but none of the emotional people will answer.
No different standard as I can tell. It's bought and sold just like anything else that costs $.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:48   #134
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No different standard as I can tell. It's bought and sold just like anything else that costs $.
Exactly. I hate speculators with any commodity.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:50   #135
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Really, I got 6 boxes of .308 at WM 2 years ago, for a gun I no longer own. Am I a straight-up bastard for wanting even $30 per box, when I only paid $20? Guess I'll sit on it, even though, like many here, I could always use the money, and I never known anyone to complain about their own profit.

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Old 03-27-2013, 11:52   #136
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Exactly. I hate speculators with any commodity.
Speculation drives the economy. It'd be a dull place without 'em.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:11   #137
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Speculation drives the economy. It'd be a dull place without 'em.
Meaning...
It'd be a dull place without speculators because most people would go hungry on a frequent basis. none of us would have fuel in our vehicles, and our homes would be dark with no electricity.


So many folks in this discussion seem to expect that life will somehow be "fair". It sometimes surprises me how many adults have never moved past this childlike notion. Some people live very sheltered lives.

For these people "fair" inevitably means "what makes me feel good".
Then they're somehow surprised every time they find that the world isn't particularly concerned with what makes them feel good.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:23   #138
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I was wondering what thoughts were on the folks who've built up a good pile over time, I mean the people that walk into stores and literally buy every round available every week.
The biggest issue with this thought process is thinking there are folks buying everything in sight and hording it in a bunker somewhere. Most folks that stockpile ammo have had their piles of ammo for years.

What you are seeing right now is folks buying everything in sight and marking it up 300% and reselling it to folks that didn't plan so well. One would be without reasonable thought process to think that even the majority of these folks buying everything in sight are doing so because they want to have it on hand in case of an emergency, they are selling it hand over fist.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:24   #139
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.. One would be without reasonable thought process to think that even the majority of these folks buying everything in sight are doing so because they want to have it on hand in case of an emergency, they are selling it hand over fist.

And ?
Is that really a problem?
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:40   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushinto View Post
Without primers, they may have to stay ready.



No, it is not illegal.
It depends on the totality of the circumstances. If you buy guns with the intent to resell at a profit to support yourself, and do so, it could be illegal because you could be "in the business" of selling firearms. As such if you don't the proper FFL you would be in breach of federal law. The ATF prosecutes people for this on a regular basis. They frequent gun shows looking for just this type of thing. Additionally, if you sell firearms for a profit, even as a coincidence to a firearm hobby, and do not report that income, you would be guilty of tax evasion.

So the answer is not a flat "No, it is not illegal" . As they say, the devil is in the details.
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Old 03-27-2013, 13:05   #141
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It depends on the totality of the circumstances. If you buy guns with the intent to resell at a profit to support yourself, and do so, it could be illegal because you could be "in the business" of selling firearms. As such if you don't the proper FFL you would be in breach of federal law. The ATF prosecutes people for this on a regular basis. They frequent gun shows looking for just this type of thing. Additionally, if you sell firearms for a profit, even as a coincidence to a firearm hobby, and do not report that income, you would be guilty of tax evasion.

So the answer is not a flat "No, it is not illegal" . As they say, the devil is in the details.
Much like the tax code.

Laws like this are one of the indicators of despotism.


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Old 03-27-2013, 13:15   #142
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427 When political support for the second amendment disappears it will be effectively repealed without the constitutionally proper process. There will be no more right to keep and bear arms. possession of them will be illegal.
Homeland security will want use their toys and hunt down people with personal armories and arsenals.

Fewer shooters equal less political will and power to protect our rights.
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Old 03-27-2013, 13:33   #143
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Somebody please explain why ammo/mags/firearms are held to a different standard than any other product/commodity that's bought and sold. I keep asking but none of the emotional people will answer.

Yeah, can you see buying homes to flip, like people do, then get arrested!
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:11   #144
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Put your money (ammo) where your mouth is.

Offer up your ammo for sale at the price you paid for it.

Either you are hypocrite and only want to steal from sellers or you will post up you ammo.

I will gladly pay you $18 for a 550 round box of golden bullets.
Actually, I think it would make me a hypocrite if I sold any ammo to you. You know, because that's sort of what I'm arguing against.


Also, I'm way too butthurt for this thread.

Certifiedfunds, keep doing what you're doing bro. I didn't GET it at first.... but you're hilarious man.


Want to help the ammo situation? Be a Wallmart parking lot ammo scalper!


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Old 03-27-2013, 14:20   #145
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:21   #146
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Khao,

How really do you define "fair" or "right" in this context?
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:31   #147
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Khao,

How really do you define "fair" or "right" in this context?
Like I said multiple times earlier. I think this is one of those situations where you need to listen to your gut. We could ask 100 different people what "fair" is and get 100 different answers.

However, we could also ask those same 100 people if being a Wallmart ammo scalper is "wrong" and we'd probably get 2 answers.

Some people think taking advantage of your fellow shooters is wrong, and some don't. (or they pretend they don't)

We all fall into one of those two camps. Some people are so jaded to world, they really don't see anything wrong with stepping over your neighbor to get ahead. (I don't believe certifiedfunds is one of those people, like I said... he is an internet persona... nothing more)
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:44   #148
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Actually, I think it would make me a hypocrite if I sold any ammo to you. You know, because that's sort of what I'm arguing against.
No.

You have been arguing that people shouldnt be selling at a profit not that people shouldn't be selling period.

So YOU dont want to sell YOUR ammo at the price you paid but you think others should sell THEIR ammo at prices they paid.
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:45   #149
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However, we could also ask those same 100 people if being a Wallmart ammo scalper is "wrong" and we'd probably get 2 answers.
Probably more than that.

I suspect 85 of them will say "i dont care one way or the other"
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:46   #150
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No.

You have been arguing that people shouldnt be selling at a profit not that people shouldn't be selling period.

So YOU dont want to sell YOUR ammo at the price you paid but you think others should sell THEIR ammo at prices they paid.

No... that's not what I think at all. I think you should buy what you need from an existing vendor, and stop creating more middlemen. I think you should stop stepping on other shooters for a quick buck.

Son, you're not going to make me the badguy here... don't even try. You're on the side of shady scalping practices, I'm on the side of morality. Get it? Got it? Good.
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