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Old 04-01-2013, 15:02   #401
DanaT
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On the last flight, I got two ice creams.

I asked if there was more and there were about 5 extras. They told me to take what I wanted. I would have eaten all 5, but I am watching my figure.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:03   #402
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So, during the flight there are snacks in the galley.

I have learned that I can have as much fruit (bananas, oranges, apples), chips, chocolate as I want.

So what I do, is I stuff my pockets full and walk to the back galley. Then I undercut the airline and sell apples for $3 each. I am selling beers for $5 instead of the $6 the airline charges for them.
Just a thought: If you take ALL of the snacks you can charge much more for them than the airline does.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:25   #403
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So you're saying profiteering is only fiction?

Are you saying it's impossible to profiteer from ammo sales?

Or just that in your own judgment you are a legitimate business man participating in the economic supply chain for ammunition?


Do you honor warranty claims for your customers through an agreement with the manufacturer?

Does the manufacturer know that you are selling their product at retail?

Just curious.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:27   #404
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If you decided to get into the "ammo biz" after noticing an opportunity to take advantage of the shortage by buying at retail channels forcing others to pay trumped up prices, you are a profiteer.

Simple enough?
What is so sacred about "retail channels"?

If the same individual bought from the wholesaler that WalMart buys from, or direct from the manufacturer, and sold out of the back of his truck at the same price he's selling the ammo he purchased from WalMart, would that be "profiteering"?


Help me to understand here..

Is the problem that he's selling at a price higher than WalMart?

Or, is the problem that he purchases from WalMart and then resells it?

.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:30   #405
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Just a thought: If you take ALL of the snacks you can charge much more for them than the airline does.
Yeah, but I dont have enough pockets. So if I took all the bananas, I would have to shove them down my pants. Then that would have the flight attendants all excited. Have you seen the United FAs? They are all over 60.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:32   #406
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Yeah, but I dont have enough pockets. So if I took all the bananas, I would have to shove them down my pants.

Then that would have the flight attendants all excited. Have you seen the United FAs? They are all over 60.
Mexican-carry a banana?
Perhaps you could get past security wearing an empty IWB holster... seems safer.

.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:47   #407
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So you're saying profiteering is only fiction?

Are you saying it's impossible to profiteer from ammo sales?

Or just that in your own judgment you are a legitimate business man participating in the economic supply chain for ammunition?


Do you honor warranty claims for your customers through an agreement with the manufacturer?

Does the manufacturer know that you are selling their product at retail?

Do you appear in this link?

http://www.winchester.com/Pages/domestic.aspx

That's where the legitimate dealers are listed.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:48   #408
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Yeah, but I dont have enough pockets. So if I took all the bananas, I would have to shove them down my pants. Then that would have the flight attendants all excited. Have you seen the United FAs? They are all over 60.
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Old 04-01-2013, 15:51   #409
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Do you appear in this link?

http://www.winchester.com/Pages/domestic.aspx

That's where the legitimate dealers are listed.
I just put in my zip code. I can tell you my LGS/range is not listed but sells winchester ammo.

So I guess I am just as "legitimate" as they are by your own argument.

DOH!!!
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:03   #410
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This post is so absurd it's hard to take it seriously, BUT, what pray tell happens to the cost of staples when demand outstrips supply?
When the supply of staples dries up because of costs we tend to use alot more paperclips.
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...

Do you honor warranty claims for your customers through an agreement with the manufacturer?

...

Just curious.
At the Walmart near me that sometimes has ammunition and usually does not they have a sign on the ammuntion case reading that all ammunition sales are final - no returns and no refunds. The local gun store also has a no return policy on ammunition. And on guns. I have never had a problem with ammunition, other than it not lasting long enough. But the few people I know and others I have heard of who had ammunition issues all had to deal directly with the manufacturer.
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:08   #411
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The question is nonsensical. Do you have a pair of billionaires buying up all the paper ammo contracts available on margin?

No. You have a couple of guys out hustling some other guys because retailers create an opportunity for them by holding prices artificially low and creating a shortage.

Hell, most of these guys aren't content to complain about the resellers. They also rant and rave when a normal RETAILER raises prices appropriately.

They just don't like the price.
They bought literal tons of physical silver. OK 10's of millions of ounces of physical silver.

It is not a nonsenical question. Either it had a negative impact on the market or not which is it?

The flippers of ammo add no supply to the market. They are not even a market maker. They don't even bring it to the local market (Walmart already brought it to the local market). Tell us, if they left the market entirely, how would it impact the productive supply of ammo? How would it impact the amount of ammo shot(consumed)?

A big difference between them and Walmart, is that Walmart pays taxes on their profits. It is likely many of the local flippers do not.

Do you also defend monopolies? Predatory pricing? Discriminatory pricing? Insider trading? Spreading false information to manipulate prices?
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:16   #412
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T

A big difference between them and Walmart, is that Walmart pays taxes on their profits. It is likely many of the local flippers do not.
Anything you sell at a profit you are required to pay income tax on.
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:16   #413
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"So I guess I am just as "legitimate" as they are by your own argument.

DOH!!!"

No, that makes them LESS legit.

but nice try!
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:17   #414
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Look - nobody's mind is going to change.

Profiteers don't seem themselves as aholes - no surprise there.

Just know that you are.

I'm out.
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:18   #415
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The Okie Corral

Whole lotta this going on in this thread.
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:20   #416
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"So I guess I am just as "legitimate" as they are by your own argument.

DOH!!!"

No, that makes them LESS legit.

but nice try!
You are saying since WALMART is the only one listed in my zip code, that the many independent gun shops are LESS legitimate of a seller than Walmart?
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:20   #417
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Look - nobody's mind is going to change.

Profiteers don't seem themselves as aholes - no surprise there.

Just know that you are.

I'm out.
Wanna buy a banana? Or a discounted beer?
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Old 04-01-2013, 16:25   #418
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Anything you sell at a profit you are required to pay income tax on.
And yet they don't. The retailers with real businesses do. You probably think all those guys selling ammo at the gun shows or craigslist, that only take cash, and the price includes sales tax when you ask about that or they go "yeah I have to add sales tax", that they actually remit said "sales tax" to the state. You must also believe that universal background checks will stop violent felons from getting guns.
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Old 04-01-2013, 17:34   #419
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Talk about oversimplification, but I guess it does bolster your argument.

Retailers do far more than just purchase stuff, mark them up, and resell them. They create a market for items, they also guarantee that market and allow economies of scale for manufacturers. Wal-Mart, as hated as they are, causes products to exist that wouldn't otherwise exist, at prices far lower than such a product could be purchased otherwise.

It's outfits like Wal-Mart that keep items like ammo at low prices to begin with. They get good deals from the manufacturer by ordering in huge quantities with guaranteed contracts, and they can undercut small outfits and keep prices down in general.

There is much more about retailing than just buying and selling, and to compare them to speculators is really silly.
Many of your points are absolutely correct, but it doesn't change the fact that retailers buy things with the express purpose of reselling them at a profit. All of the other things that you attribute to them are done simply to maximize the amount of merchandise resold, with the goal of increasing profit.

The low prices at Walmart don't exist to benefit you, they exist so that you choose Walmart instead of a competitor.

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Old 04-01-2013, 17:55   #420
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The shortage is being compounded by profiteering.

Profiteering artificially raises consumer prices due to greed.

What's so difficult to understand?
The shortage exists because demand right now far exceeds supply. This will continue until demand drops or supply increases, or a combination of the two.

And if you look at it objectively, the retailers who are keeping prices low are contributing to the shortage. If you are selling out of an item more or less as soon as it hits the shelves, you have it priced too low. Walmart is keeping their ammo price at a point much lower than market value, hence they sell out immediately. If they began raising their prices, product would stay in stock longer.

Your so-called scalpers are doing what they do simply because some retailers are selling for less than market value, and there is profit to be made.

And if you look at that objectively, they actually help ammo to be available. True, finding 22 at Wally World for a low price is almost impossible. But you can easily find it for sale if you're willing to pay more. If everyone was selling 22 at WM prices, you wouldn't be able to find any regardless of price.

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Old 04-01-2013, 19:54   #421
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Anything you sell at a profit you are required to pay income tax on.
Poor 'ol Al Capone....
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Old 04-01-2013, 19:57   #422
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And yet they don't. The retailers with real businesses do. You probably think all those guys selling ammo at the gun shows or craigslist, that only take cash, and the price includes sales tax when you ask about that or they go "yeah I have to add sales tax", that they actually remit said "sales tax" to the state. You must also believe that universal background checks will stop violent felons from getting guns.
If you are worried about tax evasion, then I am sure you give out 1099-Misc forms for transactions that you participate in.

I bet that you even turn into your state the required use tax forms. You realize that if YOU buy something without paying sales tax, that you are most likely required to submit the proper tax forms to your state?

Lets see how honest you are. How many internet purchases out of state have you filled out the required use tax form, sent it to the state you live in, and paid the required taxes?
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Old 04-01-2013, 20:43   #423
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Many of your points are absolutely correct, but it doesn't change the fact that retailers buy things with the express purpose of reselling them at a profit. All of the other things that you attribute to them are done simply to maximize the amount of merchandise resold, with the goal of increasing profit.

The low prices at Walmart don't exist to benefit you, they exist so that you choose Walmart instead of a competitor.

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Old 04-01-2013, 20:49   #424
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Why should the government profiteer off of ammo?


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Old 04-01-2013, 20:55   #425
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MidwayUSA, Natchez and Palmetto State Armory are a few retailers that seem to try and keep the cost down however they never have ammo on their site. Today I just bought American Eagle 22LR 400 round pack for .06 cents per round from PSA using the web app I've created, it alerted me... I clicked listing, signed in, checked out... done. WINNING.

Demand far exceeds the supply, we all know that with the current ammo panic. Everyone and their brother are trying to stock up and have a nice stock pile. The problem is with the demand exceeding supply is, these sites sell out so fast. The 22lr I just purchased today sold out in less than 1 hour. They had a 1 box per customer limit. I've seen ammo at normal cost / retail value sell out in less than 5 minutes. Now come to mind that these websites get hammered with traffic due to demand. They all have solid load balancers and multiple servers across the country. If thousands of visitors hit the website, they are going to have to pay more for bandwidth, add more servers, hire more employees, and work overtime to package and ship everything out due to these spikes so yes, demand does screw them as well. It seems that people don't understand the cost to do business and that is probably why you are seeing a lot of retailers gouging. They are already hammered and it's hard enough for them to obtain ammo from the manufacturers so the simple decision would be to up the cost. Not only ammo is being affected... Try finding a brand new Glock 19 Gen 4...

Now if it were a perfect world, people would have been smart and bought double on what they decide to go shoot at the range. They would have already stocked up and been prepared. Everyone knew what was coming when Barack Hussein got elected his 2nd term... So... don't be pissed off about the cost and the ammo shortage. If you voted for BHO, blame yourself, you KNEW it was coming.

You should have:
A. Already have stocked up pre panic. Don't buy ****ty 50 round packs of WWB at a time, you should have bought bulk. Save up and you get more ammo for less. Not a hard concept here.
B. Buy smarter. Do NOT be willing to pay the current market value. Another not so hard concept here.

Now. I have to mention, I've worked hard on writing a system to deliver near realtime availability on ammo. ArmsBot.com... Take a look at the listings. Browse the out of stock listings. Realize, you were too late in getting the good deal because you didn't use the system.

So the moral of the story, buy smarter people! No way will I be waking up at 5am to wait in line in hopes to get ammo from wally world... No way will I be paying over 2x the cost!
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