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Old 03-30-2013, 21:33   #326
Glockumollie
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Well i have kept telling you people on the east coast or at least east of the Mississippi That to me at least it seems like you guys can get the guns but I have been able to get the ammo. The dealer that I buy from is great. He doesn't gouge gun, magazine or ammo prices. I just bought 50 rounds of 9mm today for $16.00 I payed $21.00 for 50rounds of 45auto. He sells glocks for $600.00 for gen4 and $550.00 for all others. That may seem high to you people that live in Georgia, Alabama or Texas but compared to The great Gouger (GunBroker) we think it is reasonable during this crunch. Glock magazines are $50.00 and he will only sell each person one per day. He also will only sell you 200rounds a day of each cal of ammunition unless he has some short case deals or something like that. But today as usual he had 9mm, .40s&w and 45auto range ammo like I said at about $20.00 or less for 50 rounds. He does have good self defense ammo for $20.00 a box of 20. I think he is a very good guy cuz he tries his best to always have something for all his usual customers because he wont allow some scalper to walk in and clear out the shelves every time he gets a shipment in. I wish more dealers had the honesty and concern for their customer base. We would all be riding out this storm without so much inconvenience. And thats all I have to say about that.
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Old 03-30-2013, 21:35   #327
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Originally Posted by rohanreginald View Post
I am not kidding, a budy of mine has an ffl and sets up shop at the gun shows around the state. He will find a Walmart that has ammo and sends all of his workers and friends in there to buy everything. Then sells it at the gun show for a mark up. The ammo shortage is weird, but so are all the large orders for ammo by the feds during this time.

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A guy tried to open a gun shop across the street from WM a few years ago. This was 07-08, panic was high. Loser went in with his friends and wife and bought all the ammo they had every day for six months. Close-knit bunch of shooters around here. Sporting goods manager is very pro 2A and life-long local. Everyone knew and he was out of business by early 2010. He sold NOTHING and probably lost everything they had. Boo hoo.

I've sold 2.5K of 9mm that I bought in 05' last week. I'm keeping the rest and I don't shoot 9mm any more. Hoarders suck and straw purchasing and selling firearms is illegal.
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Old 03-30-2013, 21:39   #328
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However, as a horder in training, I'd like to take every box I can home.
I always have a few boxes for guys like you. How many boxes can you afford to take home?
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Old 03-30-2013, 22:19   #329
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Originally Posted by Glockumollie View Post
... Glock magazines are $50.00 and he will only sell each person one per day. ...
I've got two,G22 .40 magazines, which hold 15 rounds each, that I'll let go for less than $50 each.

Jus sayin....
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:08   #330
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"I've got two,G22 .40 magazines, which hold 15 rounds each, that I'll let go for less than $50 each."

That includes the ammo, right?

Okay, time to get fired up and find some more ammo to order.

Maybe the Easter bunny will hide ammo around the yard this year instead of eggs.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:44   #331
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Well people can't go and buy all the stuff anymore, and I may be a few posts late, but I didn't read them all. All of the major chains, Walmart, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Academy, limits the boxes a person can buy.

But if gun owner a, has no job,or living on unemployment, yeah, he's going to go to walmart, or any other place, wait in line ( since he doesn't have to be anywhere) and buy all the ammo, or just the most in demand and keep it.

sad but true....just screw it and reload.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:20   #332
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Yesterday, at the LGS,there were 16 boxes of 17HMR sitting on the shelf. At normal prices.

There was 223 on the shelf. At normal prices.

First time I have seen these sitting on the shelf in a while.

I didnt need any (well one can ALWAYS use more ammo, but I had no immediate need) so I left it. As it gets left, the panic buying will stop.
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Old 03-31-2013, 15:36   #333
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Yesterday, at the LGS,there were 16 boxes of 17HMR sitting on the shelf. At normal prices.

There was 223 on the shelf. At normal prices.

First time I have seen these sitting on the shelf in a while.

I didnt need any (well one can ALWAYS use more ammo, but I had no immediate need) so I left it. As it gets left, the panic buying will stop.
Next time pm me. Buy the .223 and ship it to me. Ill resell it and split the profit with you.


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Old 03-31-2013, 15:54   #334
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Next time pm me. Buy the .223 and ship it to me. Ill resell it and split the profit with you.


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But that takes effort. I cannot spend an hour doing something for so little profit.
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Old 03-31-2013, 15:55   #335
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But that takes effort. I cannot spend an hour doing something for so little profit.
It won't be little profit. We'll gouge somebody real good.




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Old 03-31-2013, 18:17   #336
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Living up here in the Pacific NW, where (finally) we had a bright clear sunny day, Temp in the low 70's. Last time this happened was 5 months ago.
Getting ready to shoot a match next weekend, and went to my membership outdoor range.
Very nice 20 bay pistol range, (plus rifle and shotgun ranges).

Do you know how many people were at the range yesterday... 0, ZIP, NADA, NOBODY!!.

When I asked the RO why.....NOBODY CAN GET AMMO, AND THOSE THAT HAVE IT ARE RELUCTANT TO BURN IT UP. .

I reload however the match I am going to only allows Factory Ammo...However getting primers and my favorite powder is challenging...

So when the SHTF, all those hoarders will be calling out to the "have not" gun owners for help to defend that hoard .......not I think.
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Old 03-31-2013, 19:16   #337
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If I ran a gunstore, I'd keep most of the ammo under the counter for regular customers and gun buyers, and limit quantities to facilitate this.
The gun stores here are raping us also. So, if possible, I'd like to put in a plug for "Shooter's". It's a gun store and indoor range.

They are only getting trickles of ammo in, but selling it at regular prices. They currently limit pistol ammo at 2 boxes, and .223/5.56 at 5 boxes.

The reason they are doing this is because scumbag slugs that consider themselves part of some imaginary "brotherhood" of gun owners, are buying cases, and then you find them on armslist selling $9.00 a box practice, cheap FMJ for $30 or $40.00 a box. I just got a new Wolf 9mm Barrell for my new G23 and can't find enough ammo to "break in" the gun/barrel. There is one slug, right here in the community I live in.

Other gun stores are doing the same, selling 10 buck a box ammo for $30.00 to $40.00 a box. Also marking Glocks, M&P's, SIG's, and similar $150 to $200 over list.

This is my plan. When things settle down, I plan to never, ever set foot in those stores again, even though I've spent thousands in them over the last 10 years or so. You might think about doing the same. Shove it up theirs, like they're doing to you, if you have Slugs/Dealers like this.

Also, Shooters is located right outside of Florence KY, if I can give them a plug here, for being stand up dudes.

J.
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Old 03-31-2013, 19:30   #338
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Originally Posted by racerford View Post
I don't find where I posted the quote you attributed to me. I don't recall saying that. Maybe the quoting got confused.
Here you go:

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Speculators and irrational consumers and government intervention and the htreat of government intervention is to blame.

I get why .223 is running short. A guy and his brother and sister is buying up Ar-15 clones. What good would it be without ammo and magazines. So HUGE soike in temporary demand.

Why the shortage of .22 long rifle? Has there been some threat to .22s that I have missed? Is the ruger 10/22 on a list somewhere? The production lines that produce .22 propably can't be used to produce centerfire ammo, so no take over to produce 9MM or .223.

A shortage of .380? Sure it is probaly produced on the same lines as 9mm.

As to the Colorado law, that is government intervention so free market rationality. If I didn't have a lifetime supply of magazines for me and my kids, I would buy more, if I could afford it. Would I spend $100 for a mag? Maybe for the first one, but less for each successive mag until I got what I need. Typical marginal utility curve.

You might say Magpul is not acting rationally. They should double their price, maybe more to take advantage of thee situation. Maybe even increase the price higher to those in Colorado. I mean that is the free market, right Charge the maximum the market will bear, right? No, that is short term thinking and not rational to their long term survival. Instead, they maintain prices to the extent possible. They make shipping to Colorado residents a temporary priority. How stupid they are. But theyare not. They will get a great deal of customer goodwill, even the ones not impacted by Colorado law. Gosh, the same reason that Walmart is jacking prices to scalper prices. They ration to make fewer customers unhappy.

Speculators do nothing for the market. You say they provide supply in this time of fear. They do not they create the fear by stripping the shelf. They CREATE no supply, manufacturers create supply. Hoarders of the past may increase available supply by reducing their inventory. Flippers do no such thing, they are not really even time shifting supply lie a hoarder would that bought their ammo 10 years ago when supply was not constrained.

You want to make it simple. It is not. Except "speculators/scalpers" do not add value to the efficient and orderly function of the market. They could all be killed by an arc-angel of death and the ammo market price would decline (if their ammo survived). Supply and consumer demand would not be inpact. Individual comsumers might be impact, especially those at the high end of the utility curve. Tough nuggies, the producers and the consumers would be better off.

There are plenty of ration markets where there is minimal government interference, stable laws, and low emotional angst.
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Old 03-31-2013, 19:36   #339
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Originally Posted by jbylake View Post
The gun stores here are raping us also. So, if possible, I'd like to put in a plug for "Shooter's". It's a gun store and indoor range.

They are only getting trickles of ammo in, but selling it at regular prices. They currently limit pistol ammo at 2 boxes, and .223/5.56 at 5 boxes.

The reason they are doing this is because scumbag slugs that consider themselves part of some imaginary "brotherhood" of gun owners, are buying cases, and then you find them on armslist selling $9.00 a box practice, cheap FMJ for $30 or $40.00 a box. I just got a new Wolf 9mm Barrell for my new G23 and can't find enough ammo to "break in" the gun/barrel. There is one slug, right here in the community I live in.

Other gun stores are doing the same, selling 10 buck a box ammo for $30.00 to $40.00 a box. Also marking Glocks, M&P's, SIG's, and similar $150 to $200 over list.

This is my plan. When things settle down, I plan to never, ever set foot in those stores again, even though I've spent thousands in them over the last 10 years or so. You might think about doing the same. Shove it up theirs, like they're doing to you, if you have Slugs/Dealers like this.

Also, Shooters is located right outside of Florence KY, if I can give them a plug here, for being stand up dudes.

J.
The stores that raise prices at times like this and therefore have ammo available for purchase are doing the right thing so ill be sure to shop them first when this is all over.

It'll be a better experience because there will be fewer slugs in them.


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Old 03-31-2013, 19:44   #340
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The stores that raise prices at times like this and therefore have ammo available for purchase are doing the right thing so ill be sure to shop them first when this is all over.

It'll be a better experience because there will be fewer slugs in them.


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Then, since they're screwing you now, I suppose you wouldn't mind bending over for them again, when prices come back down and plenty of ammo available. Hell, they might even buy you a free coke for your loyalty and willingness to pay them 5X the regular rate for ammo. I'll stick with the store that is still charging the normal price, limiting it so that people can't "scalp" it on the internet. But I'd be happy to help you find $10.00 a box ammo for $50 buck a box. Don't want the "slugs" to get caught with all that ammo, when this thing settles down. You can buy it, and all you want, to boot!

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Old 03-31-2013, 19:46   #341
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Then, since they're screwing you now, I suppose you wouldn't mind bending over for them again, when prices come back down and plenty of ammo available. Hell, they might even buy you a free coke for your loyalty.
They're not screwing me now. They're the only one's helping the situation. They're doing exactly what they're supposed to.

They have ammo to purchase. The others don't and if they get some they limit you to a paltry amount.

I don't believe in punishing gun shops for doing the right thing. We need more gun stores, not less. Less competition is bad for the consumer. If I don't like the prices on something I just don't buy it. I don't get all butthurt and hold a vendetta.

Why do you feel entitled to buy ammo at yesterday's prices?

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Old 03-31-2013, 19:54   #342
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So if I buy a car, house, or whatever under market value, then flip it at the current market value is wrong?

If you have any gold or sliver, I demand the you sell it at the original price you paid, not the current market value. To do otherwise is unethical and wrong. It sounds silly when I put it that way, right?

Please try to explain why flipping is wrong and unethical as you did a poor job.
I think the problem is that currently a lot of people are creating a secondary market that doesnt necessarily need to exist. If some people would stop buying everything just to flip it we might see supply and pricing return to normal. Creating the secondary market is hurting a lot of businesses and people.

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Old 03-31-2013, 20:01   #343
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This loose definintion of straw purchase is going to be as divisive amongst gun owners as the hunters vs black rifle owners debate.

He bought it to immediately sell it for profit. Unless there is a threshold to cross from private seller to gun dealer, he is still selling things legally....

The ATF considers this a straw purchase. Black and white. No question.
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Old 03-31-2013, 20:04   #344
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I think the problem is that currently a lot of people are creating a secondary market that doesnt necessarily need to exist. If some people would stop buying everything just to flip it we might see supply and pricing return to normal. Creating the secondary market is hurting a lot of businesses and people.

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What's hurting is not selling _____product X_____ at market value.

If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X_____ being sold below market value, people wouldn't be buying and flipping.
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Old 03-31-2013, 20:34   #345
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What's hurting is not selling _____product X_____ at market value.

If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X_____ being sold below market value, people wouldn't be buying and flipping.
Scalpers are "hurting" everyone except for themselves. The scalpers clearing the shelves is feeding the panic. Market value would be significantly lower if it were not for the artificial shortage created by the scalpers.
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Old 03-31-2013, 20:44   #346
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Scalpers are "hurting" everyone except for themselves. The scalpers clearing the shelves is feeding the panic. Market value would be significantly lower if it were not for the artificial shortage created by the scalpers.
What's hurting is not selling _____product X_____ at market value.

If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X_____ being sold below market value, people wouldn't be buying and flipping.
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Old 03-31-2013, 20:46   #347
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What's hurting is not selling _____product X_____ at market value.

If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X_____ being sold below market value, people wouldn't be buying and flipping.
You guys obviously disagree with what is "hurting". Bolding and repeating isn't going to change that.
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Old 03-31-2013, 20:52   #348
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What's hurting is not selling _____ product X _____ at market value.

If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X _____ being sold below market value , people wouldn't be buying and flipping.
The people buying are creating an artificial shortage which creates an artificial panic based demand. If you purchase all available stock of anything and then jack the price, of course there is money to be made.
The mob mentality is convincing people that they "need" the ammo. The artificial shortage created by the scalpers is reinforcing this artificial "need".
The scalpers are hurting everyone including themselves but they are too greedy to realize it.

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Old 03-31-2013, 20:58   #349
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Scalpers are "hurting" everyone except for themselves. The scalpers clearing the shelves is feeding the panic. Market value would be significantly lower if it were not for the artificial shortage created by the scalpers.
The so-called scalpers will only stop buying and reselling for a profit when the profit part of the equation goes away. And as long as demand isn't being met, people will continue to pay the high prices.

In other words, what's keeping prices high is the fact that buyers will pay those prices.

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Old 03-31-2013, 20:58   #350
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The people buying are creating an artificial shortage which creates an artificial panic based demand. If you purchase all available stock of anything and then jack the price, of course there is money to be made.
The mob mentality is convincing people that they "need" the ammo. The artificial shortage created by the scalpers is reinforcing this artificial "need".
The scalpers are hurting everyone including themselves but they are too greedy to realize it.
How is ammo different than any other commodity/product?
You all seem hold ammo to a different standard.

Again, If there wasn't money to be made from ______ product X _____ being sold below market value, people wouldn't be buying and flipping.

Plug whatever product in for "X".

It will go on as long as someone is willing to pay those prices.
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