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Old 03-30-2013, 11:09   #176
certifiedfunds
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Originally Posted by Nicky D View Post
I have mixed feelings on this issue. I do understand the need to maximize profits but I think that it oversteps boundaries when an employer is trying to dictate what I can or can not do on my free time.

Am all for an employer charging more for an at risk employee. I also agree with them offering incentives versus firing to get healthy. Sure I have the choice to look somewhere else for employment, until all companies do have the same requirements.

I am a nurse and I work in a hospital. Many hospitals are starting to not hire smokers. I don't smoke so it does not effect me personally. I still disagree with this practice. Smoking is not illegal, yes it increases health risk but it should not be a reason to either not be hired or to be terminated.

Last year I was forced to take the flu vaccine. Did I have a choice, sure I did, take it be fired. Well I have a family and home to provide for, so of course I took it against my will. No, I could not just quit my job as it is now the standard practice to force all employees to take the vaccine in other hospitals as well, in the name of the greater good.

At what point do we draw the line on what is acceptable both from employers as well as employees? How much say does an employer really have over MY life?
If your employer does these things and you disagree, you should quit and find other employment. The sole purpose of a business is to maximize return to shareholder capital.


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Old 03-30-2013, 11:13   #177
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If your employer does these things and you disagree, you should quit and find other employment. The sole purpose of a business is to maximize return to shareholder capital.


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Agreed. If you dislike your employers policies, then find a new employer who has policies you agree with.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:39   #178
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
Agreed. If you dislike your employers policies, then find a new employer who has policies you agree with.
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
If your employer does these things and you disagree, you should quit and find other employment. The sole purpose of a business is to maximize return to shareholder capital.


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Like I stated in my post, all of the hospitals are requiring this, so I can't just quit my job and go to a different hospital. All healthcare facilities are requiring mandatory flu vaccines. Before you suggest it, changing careers is also easier said than done, not to mention that I do enjoy my profession.
I work for a hospital that is considered non profit, so no shareholders to worry about. As far as being worried about lost productivity, well how about looking at my record, I am maxed out on vacation days and I am almost maxed out with a total of 1400 sick ours, not to mention the OT that I put into the organization. I doubt that I'm hurting the bottom line by not getting the flu vaccine. Meanwhile there are people who count down the days until they can call out.

So do you both believe that employers can do whatever they want to employees? Are there no limits?
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Old 03-30-2013, 13:11   #179
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Your anecdotes are great, but they don't prove anything. I also believe that you failed to comprehend what the argument is about. It is not about how someone looks. I am sure the fat chick you hired is wonderful, but her weight will most likely cost the company more money in the long run than someone who was physically fit. The fact is that fat people can work fine, but when the company has to pay for their health-issues or they lose more work for them, then their physical problems are harming the company, and that is not fair to the other employees who have to take up the slack, and more importantly that is not fair to the stockholders because it lowers the value of their stocks.
No, I get it completely. But employee benefit costs are secondary to productivity. If I can hire a fat person who gets the job done better than a skinny one I guarantee you it outweighs (pun intended) any healthcare cost differential.

Business (other than Union shops) has a lot of leeway in terms of what they offer their employees in the form of healthcare benefits or even IF they offer them. With the Federal government's new affordable healthcare act that's going to change. But its not fat people that will be the primary drivers of costs. They are already in the system and receiving benefits. Its people with pre-exisitng uninsurable conditions. If business decides healthcare is too expensive it will dump its employees into the exchange and pay the fine. Or even more likely terminate domestic operations and outsource the business to a lower tax environment (which isn't hard to find) and a lower cost workforse that demands fewer benefits. But fat people aren't the cause of that. The government is...
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Old 03-30-2013, 13:48   #180
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So let me understand this.... if you have a job, pay your taxes and are unhealthy you pay a monetary penalty for your poor health, but if you are healthy, don't have a job or pay taxes you get rewarded with housing, WIC card, Obama phone, and 99 weeks of unemployment. Gotta love progressive freedom.
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Old 03-30-2013, 14:42   #181
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Originally Posted by Nicky D View Post
Like I stated in my post, all of the hospitals are requiring this, so I can't just quit my job and go to a different hospital. All healthcare facilities are requiring mandatory flu vaccines. Before you suggest it, changing careers is also easier said than done, not to mention that I do enjoy my profession.
I work for a hospital that is considered non profit, so no shareholders to worry about. As far as being worried about lost productivity, well how about looking at my record, I am maxed out on vacation days and I am almost maxed out with a total of 1400 sick ours, not to mention the OT that I put into the organization. I doubt that I'm hurting the bottom line by not getting the flu vaccine. Meanwhile there are people who count down the days until they can call out.

So do you both believe that employers can do whatever they want to employees? Are there no limits?
You're not being forced to do anything. People change employers and careers all the time. Start a business, create a management carve out and do as you please.

Yes. An employer SHOULD be able to dictate whatever terms he chooses. Employees are free to accept or decline.


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Old 03-30-2013, 18:47   #182
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I am a Free Market loving Libertarian. Big fan of Ron Paul. No game here, just an observant man who notices things. What is your game?
My game? It's pointing out that it seems like you're trolling and/or misrepresenting yourself. I'm not sure why, but I doubt it's to truly espouse the superior morality of libertarianism.

Here's another example post. I'm not sure how many libertarians I've seen refer to people who follow the TEA party as Teabaggers, but I'd suspect it's not many. I've heard that term quite often from members of a different political bent, however.

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Was busy today. But I have to ask, where were the Teabaggers when Bush was spending money like a drunken sailor? Where was the uproar when the TSA was formed or DHS? Where was the outrage when he decided warrantless wiretaps were ok?
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Old 03-30-2013, 19:50   #183
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So who's gonna tell Chris Christie he has to lose weight or find another place to be governor?
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Old 03-30-2013, 20:04   #184
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Best loader I ever had on my tank was a slightly fat guy. He could jam a tank shell into the main gun faster than any skinny pencil neck geek. Yeah he couldn't run a 2 mile PT test in record time. And yeah he looked like a sack of potatoes in his uniform. But by god the man could change a roadwheel or break track by himself....
It seems like more than a few people confuse being strong with being healthy. It's possible to be strong as an ox, but only 1 potato chip away from a heart attack.
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Old 03-30-2013, 20:20   #185
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So who's gonna tell Chris Christie he has to lose weight or find another place to be governor?
No we want to keep him in jersey


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Old 03-30-2013, 20:55   #186
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What about

employees that might be having an extra marital affair? Or an associate watching porn?

Does not Mental health have an associated cost?

Why should not employers have the right to enter your home when they deem appropriate to get a "true" picture of your life that might be impacting the company?
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Old 03-30-2013, 21:27   #187
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No doubt the Billy Goats Gruff appreciate this.
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Old 03-30-2013, 22:05   #188
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And then there's them high risk gun owners.
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Old 03-30-2013, 23:30   #189
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And then there's them high risk gun owners.
Just had to go there didn't you?
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Old 03-30-2013, 23:53   #190
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Of what? The BMI charts are BS. I am 5'7" wt 172. Body fat 11%. When I was young (late teens) I lifted weights. I weighed 180 lbs and fat was 9%. The perfect definition of a healthy male.
According to the BMI chart I am overweight and I should weigh no more than 159 lbs.
The charts do not take into account body frame size nor muscle mass.

BMI gets a bad rap because it's not being used for its original purpose. Its real purpose is to roughly analyze the body compositions of large populations. It works because statistical outliers cancel each other out, i.e. for every meat head with a high lean mass, there's a bean pole with a low lean mass.

But, applied as a health assessment of individuals, I agree, it's total crap.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:00   #191
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Like I stated in my post, all of the hospitals are requiring this, so I can't just quit my job and go to a different hospital. All healthcare facilities are requiring mandatory flu vaccines. Before you suggest it, changing careers is also easier said than done, not to mention that I do enjoy my profession.
I work for a hospital that is considered non profit, so no shareholders to worry about. As far as being worried about lost productivity, well how about looking at my record, I am maxed out on vacation days and I am almost maxed out with a total of 1400 sick ours, not to mention the OT that I put into the organization. I doubt that I'm hurting the bottom line by not getting the flu vaccine. Meanwhile there are people who count down the days until they can call out.

So do you both believe that employers can do whatever they want to employees? Are there no limits?
Start your own hospital? Don't require these conditions. Problem solved.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:04   #192
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So let me understand this.... if you have a job, pay your taxes and are unhealthy you pay a monetary penalty for your poor health, but if you are healthy, don't have a job or pay taxes you get rewarded with housing, WIC card, Obama phone, and 99 weeks of unemployment. Gotta love progressive freedom.
Actually the Obama phone should be called the Reagan phone. He started the program. Many people are misinformed and they choose to call it the Obama phone.

Either way, I don't follow. I am saying that unhealthy people should be eligible to be fired for being unhealthy. And since they willfully chose to be unhealthy they should not qualify for those programs.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:05   #193
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My game? It's pointing out that it seems like you're trolling and/or misrepresenting yourself. I'm not sure why, but I doubt it's to truly espouse the superior morality of libertarianism.

Here's another example post. I'm not sure how many libertarians I've seen refer to people who follow the TEA party as Teabaggers, but I'd suspect it's not many. I've heard that term quite often from members of a different political bent, however.
That was the name they coined themselves. They chose to call themselves that, I don't see the problem.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:06   #194
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So who's gonna tell Chris Christie he has to lose weight or find another place to be governor?
I will gladly. But as he was elected and it was not stipulated when he was hired. He also does not work in a business, but for the government. It is not a private industry. Therefore it is a moot point.

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Old 03-31-2013, 03:10   #195
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employees that might be having an extra marital affair? Or an associate watching porn?

Does not Mental health have an associated cost?

Why should not employers have the right to enter your home when they deem appropriate to get a "true" picture of your life that might be impacting the company?
They might be having an affair or watching porn. How is that relevant?

I am sure it does. But you are not understanding that Obesity costs them more than other issues and any good business will try to lower these costs first. I am sure mental health does not cost nearly as much as obesity does.

Why shouldn't they? You agree to the terms when you are hired. If you dislike it quit. Why is that so hard to understand? You are free and able to say no. They are then free to not hire you.

It is just like a background check, you can say no and they can say thanks for your time but we are going with another candidate.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:29   #196
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*sigh* I see GlockTalk hasn't changed much since I've been gone.........

......back to my somber, boring life here in South Korea........
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:27   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glocktecher View Post
employees that might be having an extra marital affair? Or an associate watching porn?

Does not Mental health have an associated cost?

Why should not employers have the right to enter your home when they deem appropriate to get a "true" picture of your life that might be impacting the company?
They should be able to enter your home if you agree to it as a term of employment.


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Old 03-31-2013, 08:44   #198
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
They should be able to enter your home if you agree to it as a term of employment.
This is true and already exists in some agreements for telecommuters (and possibly other employee handbooks). The employee agrees to maintain a safe workplace and to maintain the company-issued equipment, and their home office is subject to audit/inspection. I suppose one could offer to bring all company-issued equipment to a company office, but the condition to allow inspection of the home office is in the remote employee agreement.

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:35   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2950392.html

I hope more companies take these sorts of steps. As a stock holder it will be good for the country. I would rather they fired out of shape folks to help raise stock values and save on salaries.

But either way, perhaps they will start requiring physicals prior to hiring. Imagine if they start telling smokers that they are ineligible to be hired as they tested positive for tobacco and they told fatties that they are too heavy and must lose weight before they can be hired. Hopefully this will help the nation with its obesity epidemic.



What do you all think?
It is a great idea. This opens the door so that I can fire`employees that do not follow my religious, Political, race, or sexual orientation. Plus I can get rid of the ones that are ugly or that I just do not like.

It also serves as a good launching point to get rid of those damned minimum wage and work hour laws. Imagine our costs if we did not have OSHA and Workers Comp and other intrusions.

If my 1.00 per hour employees would work a honest 16 hour day seven days a week I can see giving the a half hour snack break. My profits would be through the roof.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:37   #200
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It is a great idea. This opens the door so that I can fire`employees that do not follow my religious, Political, race, or sexual orientation. Plus I can get rid of the ones that are ugly or that I just do not like.

It also serves as a good launching point to get rid of those damned minimum wage and work hour laws. Imagine our costs if we did not have OSHA and Workers Comp and other intrusions.

If my 1.00 per hour employees would work a honest 16 hour day seven days a week I can see giving the a half hour snack break. My profits would be through the roof.
You should be able to do all of that.


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