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Old 03-27-2013, 12:08   #51
Wake_jumper
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Is an employee is nothing more than chattel? Should they be forced to give up their privacy (and possibly their job) in the interest of health? And if they do get fired for health reasons they could become unemployable. Employees should be responsible for their own health care... but that horse left the barn a long time ago. An employee should be judged by the quality of their work, not the quality of their health.

The next thing coming will be even more invasive. I foresee universal genetic testing to determine what diseases an employee is at risk of acquiring. If you draw the short genetic straw... good luck getting a job anywhere.

And why stop at testing for employees? Why not test everyone at birth and decide if they are healthy enough to contribute to society? If they aren't... why keep them around? And make sure the family cannot pass defective genes to the next generation... sterilize them. Sound familiar? This was Nazi Germany policy in the 1930ís.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:15   #52
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Actually, it pretty much is. Medicare is going to bankrupt our country.
No, Medicare isn't the issue. Welfare abuse, disability abuse, etc is hurting us. The programs aren't so much the problem, the abuse of them is the real issue.

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Old 03-27-2013, 12:18   #53
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Originally Posted by Wake_jumper View Post
Is an employee is nothing more than chattel? Should they be forced to give up their privacy (and possibly their job) in the interest of health? And if they do get fired for health reasons they could become unemployable. Employees should be responsible for their own health care... but that horse left the barn a long time ago. An employee should be judged by the quality of their work, not the quality of their health.

The next thing coming will be even more invasive. I foresee universal genetic testing to determine what diseases an employee is at risk of acquiring. If you draw the short genetic straw... good luck getting a job anywhere.

And why stop at testing for employees? Why not test everyone at birth and decide if they are healthy enough to contribute to society? If they aren't... why keep them around? And make sure the family cannot pass defective genes to the next generation... sterilize them. Sound familiar? This was Nazi Germany policy in the 1930ís.
The employee is nothing but chattel. What about the quality of their work? If somebody else could do it just as well, and manage to take care of themselves which saves the company money, why not fire the fattie and hire the person who cares about themself?

The unhealthy are not unemployable, they just have to lose weight and/or take other appropriate steps towards becoming healthy. When did that horse leave the barn?

And if they do genetic testing, nobody says you have to take the test. This is still America. You just won't work for employers that do the testing.

As far as genetic testing becoming mandatory and your hyperbole about Nazi Germany, well I will address that. By not allowing companies to operate freely in a free market and by regulating them to death saying they have to spend money taking care of the fat lazy drug abusing tobacco addicted alcoholics then you are destroying freedom. Companies will become so regulated to protect these fat lazy drug abusing smoking alcoholics that evnetually to protect us all the government will nationalize them all and seize all the property. Then they will declare a one party system and we will all work for the good of the society and not for ourselves. Socialism will become out right communism and a Stalinesque figure will arise leading us into a nation similar to that of North Korea but on a much larger scale. Do you want that? Do you? You want millions of Americans to starve? Is this what you and your ilk want for our nation?

See hyperbole works both ways. It is silly.

Sorry but I am just interested in protecting companies best interests. And if they need to get rid of the fatties and hire some studs and hard bodies, that is fine by me. It just means more eye candy at the office because they not only look better, but the company has more money to hire more folks and spend on jobs. This is job creation.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:18   #54
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Originally Posted by Mushinto View Post
Interesting, that of all the money our government spends, you would single out medicare as the culprit.
Domino effect. Get rid of Medicare then people don't live as long and it substantially helps the social security issue as well.


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Old 03-27-2013, 12:18   #55
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No, Medicare isn't the issue. Welfare abuse, disability abuse, etc is hurting us. The programs aren't so much the problem, the abuse of them is the real issue.

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You realize that welfare is a drop in the bucket of federal spending? Don't you?
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:19   #56
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Originally Posted by Wake_jumper View Post
..An employee should be judged by the quality of their work, not the quality of their health.
..
That would be a purely reactive business practice.

What if I feel as a business owner that I will have a competitive advantage by being more proactive and making an up-front judgment that a more healthy employee has a greater potential for contributing to my business?


I'm speaking hypothetically here, as I am not a business owner nor an employer.

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Old 03-27-2013, 12:20   #57
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
Actually there is evidence that obese people do miss work more often....
I saw nothing about any research in any of these articles. I saw statements like, "Absenteeism: On average, smokers are absent 50 percent more often than nonsmokers" which is absolute BS.

People are just advancing their own agendas here and expressing their pent up aggression against anyone who has bad habits that they do not.

My own research that I was asked to conduct in my previous agency and city showed that smokers had used about a third of the sick leave as non-smokers. Do you know what this proves? F'king nothing. Unstated fact was that most of the smokers were older and came from the generation that saved their sick leave.

I did have significant statistics to prove that the most physically fit police officers suffered the most on the job injuries. What did that prove? F'king nothing. The ones who were in good shape were the same ones that were more likely to get off their ass and actually do something. Therefore; more injuries.

We tried to look at obesity also, but there were so many fat people as to make any research invalid.

Remember, 83% of most statistics (more in your articles) are made up on the spot.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:20   #58
Hawkeye16
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...And make sure the family cannot pass defective genes to the next generation... sterilize them. Sound familiar? This was Nazi Germany policy in the 1930ís.
I was unaware that genetic testing was that prevalent in the 30s.


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Old 03-27-2013, 13:31   #59
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I saw nothing about any research in any of these articles. I saw statements like, "Absenteeism: On average, smokers are absent 50 percent more often than nonsmokers" which is absolute BS.

People are just advancing their own agendas here and expressing their pent up aggression against anyone who has bad habits that they do not.

My own research that I was asked to conduct in my previous agency and city showed that smokers had used about a third of the sick leave as non-smokers. Do you know what this proves? F'king nothing. Unstated fact was that most of the smokers were older and came from the generation that saved their sick leave.

I did have significant statistics to prove that the most physically fit police officers suffered the most on the job injuries. What did that prove? F'king nothing. The ones who were in good shape were the same ones that were more likely to get off their ass and actually do something. Therefore; more injuries.

We tried to look at obesity also, but there were so many fat people as to make any research invalid.

Remember, 83% of most statistics (more in your articles) are made up on the spot.
Try reading the articles.
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Old 03-27-2013, 13:37   #60
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
The employee is nothing but chattel. What about the quality of their work? If somebody else could do it just as well, and manage to take care of themselves which saves the company money, why not fire the fattie and hire the person who cares about themself?
American's With Disabilities Act?
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Old 03-27-2013, 13:59   #61
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Why stop with smokers and fat people?
Gun owners should pay more. What do
you do for fun? If you scuba dive, rock climb,
ride a bike or a motorcycle...pay more.

I get really sick of this. I smoke pipes and cigars.
(My doctor considers me a non-smoker).
My rates will go up as much as a three pack a day smoker.
I don't like my Government trying to modify my behavior.
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:00   #62
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Originally Posted by Revvv View Post
No, Medicare isn't the issue.
Yes, yes it is. This is an empirical, numerical fact.

We can argue about WHY, but you can't argue the math. Medicare is going to bankrupt this country.

Quote:
Welfare abuse, disability abuse, etc is hurting us.
I absolutely agree that these things are hurting us. But compared to the overall cost of Medicare they are a drop in the bucket.

Quote:
The programs aren't so much the problem, the abuse of them is the real issue.
Nope. Remove every single abuser from the program and it'll still bankrupt us.
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:07   #63
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My employer started this over 2 years ago. If you use any type of tobacco products you will pay an extra $50 per month. We all had to sign a form stating that we either did or did not use tobacco products. I do not so it doesn't effect me. Many complained that they were picking on smokers. What about overweight/obese employees? They have a valid point.
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Old 03-27-2013, 14:09   #64
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
ChiTownPicaro is clearly a Lib troll who has infiltrated GT and who supports Obama. Don't be a sucker & take the bait.

He's trolling here as in all of his threads and I'd bet he doesn't even own a gun. Avoid him.
Since when is allowing a private company do what's necessary (as long as it's legal) to make as much money as possible a liberal idea? If anything I think liberals would be against this - fat people acceptance and all that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 21:11   #65
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American's With Disabilities Act?
Well I feel it is Unconstitutional and gives us the idea that not all people are created equal.

But either way, being a diabetic fattie smoker with cancer is not a disability. Lose weight. Exercise. Quit Smoking.

Obesity is not like paralysis or another physical disability. They can be cured if you are willing to do the work.
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Old 03-27-2013, 21:12   #66
ChiTownPicaro
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Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
Why stop with smokers and fat people?
Gun owners should pay more. What do
you do for fun? If you scuba dive, rock climb,
ride a bike or a motorcycle...pay more.

I get really sick of this. I smoke pipes and cigars.
(My doctor considers me a non-smoker).
My rates will go up as much as a three pack a day smoker.
I don't like my Government trying to modify my behavior.
I agree with you on the gub'mint modifying your behavior. However this is not the gub'mint but people trying to do it to save a few dollars.
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Old 03-27-2013, 21:32   #67
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
Well I feel it is Unconstitutional and gives us the idea that not all people are created equal.

But either way, being a diabetic fattie smoker with cancer is not a disability. Lose weight. Exercise. Quit Smoking.

Obesity is not like paralysis or another physical disability. They can be cured if you are willing to do the work.
Being diabetic may not be considered a "disability", but losing your legs due to diabetes and being confined to a wheelchair as a result IS.

So, according to the law, if someone is an 'overweight fattie' with diabetes it's OK to descriminate, but if they are a much more severe 'overweight fattie' with diabetes who has lost his legs as a result (or become blind, or lost an arm, etc.), you not only can't descriminate against them, but you have to spend additional money to accomodate their disability in the workplace.

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Old 03-27-2013, 21:38   #68
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HIPPA.


Blackmailing private health information may be at a crossroads for government intrusion.
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Old 03-27-2013, 22:26   #69
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I am overweight (obese).
I got obese after working 12-hour days sitting at a desk, churning out quality work.

I am maxed out on sick-time. I have so much accumulated that I cannot earn any more. (Saving the company money)

Some of the younger generations keep their accumulated sick time down close to zero. They see it as another form of vacation or "mental health days".

My blood pressure medicine I buy at the grocery store without insurance. (Saving the company money).

I don't see where I am costing the company any money due to my weight/health.
In fact, it looks like I cost the company less because I don't spend sick time as vacation time.

I did use some Dr visits and x-rays when I broke some ribs doing an outdoor activity that someone my age should not be doing.
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Old 03-27-2013, 22:46   #70
ChiTownPicaro
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Being diabetic may not be considered a "disability", but losing your legs due to diabetes and being confined to a wheelchair as a result IS.

So, according to the law, if someone is an 'overweight fattie' with diabetes it's OK to descriminate, but if they are a much more severe 'overweight fattie' with diabetes who has lost his legs as a result (or become blind, or lost an arm, etc.), you not only can't descriminate against them, but you have to spend additional money to accomodate their disability in the workplace.

It should not be considered a disability. Choosing to not take care of yourself and choosing to be confined to a wheel chair should not grant you special rights. You choose that and I should not have to grant you special rights because of it.

Apparently we have to take care of the fatties who choose to loose weight by having their legs taken off. It isn't fair for those of us who take care of ourselves and are trying not to leach off the rest of society. Sorry but you will get no pity from me. Being fat is a choice. Not managing your diabetes is a choice.
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Old 03-27-2013, 22:49   #71
ChiTownPicaro
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
I am overweight (obese).
I got obese after working 12-hour days sitting at a desk, churning out quality work.

I am maxed out on sick-time. I have so much accumulated that I cannot earn any more. (Saving the company money)

Some of the younger generations keep their accumulated sick time down close to zero. They see it as another form of vacation or "mental health days".

My blood pressure medicine I buy at the grocery store without insurance. (Saving the company money).

I don't see where I am costing the company any money due to my weight/health.
In fact, it looks like I cost the company less because I don't spend sick time as vacation time.

I did use some Dr visits and x-rays when I broke some ribs doing an outdoor activity that someone my age should not be doing.
Well you are not the typical obese person. Congrats. However I doubt your job contributed to your obesity. Poor diet and lack of exercise do a lot more than just sitting down.


Now the point is that fatties are costing the companies and the country money. It is not fair that we have to take care of them. When they get on the Medicare and Medicaid and steal from us, then we have a right to speak up for ourselves. We should not have to pay for their poor lifestyle choices anymore.

Last edited by ChiTownPicaro; 03-27-2013 at 22:50..
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Old 03-27-2013, 22:51   #72
ChiTownPicaro
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HIPPA.


Blackmailing private health information may be at a crossroads for government intrusion.
It is not blackmail. It is just like telling a potential employee that they must take a drug test. If they refuse they will not be hired. Asking someone for a cup of their bodily fluids seems a lot more invasive than asking for their height and weight.
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Old 03-27-2013, 23:07   #73
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As long as they do the same for drinkers, I might get on board.
And the hang gliders.

And surfers.

Skateboarders.

Skydivers.

Roller bladers.

Scuba divers.

And anyone who rides a motorcycle.

And oh yeah, someone already mentioned, anyone who owns firearms.


Voluntary exposure to risk is unacceptable and costs us all, costs the company, costs the country. Go to your job, go home and eat greens, get on the exercise bike to charge your home's batteries (but don't overdo the exercise - that's risky), and go to bed by 9pm. Or you're fired.


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Old 03-27-2013, 23:16   #74
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Well you are not the typical obese person. Congrats. However I doubt your job contributed to your obesity. Poor diet and lack of exercise do a lot more than just sitting down.

You don't get it.

He IS a typical obese person. Substitute "diabetic" with "high cholesterol" or "high blood pressure".

Most of this stuff is inherited, not assumed. And very little of it definitively proves any outcome.
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Old 03-27-2013, 23:22   #75
ChiTownPicaro
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You don't get it.

He IS a typical obese person. Substitute "diabetic" with "high cholesterol" or "high blood pressure".

Most of this stuff is inherited, not assumed. And very little of it definitively proves any outcome.
Obesity is not inherited. Some types of Diabetes are caused by being a fattie. Would you deny that obesity is not a huge factor in many of these illnesses? And what does it matter?


Just because they haven't gone after the Hang Gliders and other extreme sport enthusiasts doesn't mean anything. Hang Gliders are not costing companies as much as obese people. Please present a legitimate argument. Maybe one day they will. I bet they will when hang gliders are costing industries billions of dollars.

Last edited by ChiTownPicaro; 03-27-2013 at 23:23..
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