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Old 03-26-2013, 05:00   #26
Bren
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Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
You can hardly miss the many stories about DHS buying billions of rounds of ammunition (hollowpoints) for "practice." What the heck is going on?
A. How much they are actually buying is exaggerated.

B. The zombies aren't going to kill themselves.

C. Note that I only mentioned killing zombies, since I get an infraction every time I talk about killing in a way that wouldn't raise an eyebrow among people I know in the real world.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:03   #27
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Between 1933 and 1939, there were a lot of alarmists in Germany who were concerned about what was happening to the German culture and government. Of course, the Nazis mocked them and called them "loonies."
A valid point! Those that refuse to heed history are doomed to repeat it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:05   #28
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As much as this ammo purchase BS has come across GT, there should be a required posting for everyone to CALM DOWN. Anyone that knows anything, knows that the "big purchase" is not all that big and was layed out in small increments.

If you believe anything else, you should tighten the foil.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:21   #29
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:02   #30
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I've only seen one actual RFQ, and it was for roughly 10-11 million rounds per year for five years iirc. I'd be curious to see where the 1.6 billion number came from.

Not pooh-poohing it; I personally don't understand why the social security administration bought something like 175,000 rounds of pistol ammo last year either. Social security needs that kind of ammo, seriously...?
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:09   #31
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A valid point! Those that refuse to heed history are doomed to repeat it.
The lesson seems to have been learned. If the last election shows anything its is that we seem to have stopped electing alarmist, right-wing, nationalist nut jobs into office.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:22   #32
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Not pooh-poohing it; I personally don't understand why the social security administration bought something like 175,000 rounds of pistol ammo last year either. Social security needs that kind of ammo, seriously...?
Why not? The agency has a division of federally mandated LEO's who investigate fraud that targets the SS system.

Last edited by ray9898; 03-26-2013 at 11:25..
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:21   #33
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Originally Posted by Rick O'Shay View Post
My understanding is that, the federal government has contracted for "options" of billions of rounds of popular calibers and trying to overwhelm ammo manufacturers, in order to keep ammo off the store shelves. Just a trickle is actually making it to store shelves, it appears. I guess that, if the government buys up virtually ALL ammo, then they can control where it ultimately is used.

I haven't seen a more reasonable explanation to date.
I disagree.
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Old 03-26-2013, 13:52   #34
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I disagree.
Yup....nothing more than the product of mass hoarding.

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Old 03-26-2013, 14:30   #35
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Why not? The agency has a division of federally mandated LEO's who investigate fraud that targets the SS system.
That's kind of my point, LEO's being law enforcement officers. I don't believe the SSA needs its own, proprietary law-enforcement division. Investigative component maybe, but law-enforcement? Imo, every federal agency having its own LE division, investigative division, pension-management division, fleet-management division, etc, is both a cause and a symptom of the huge waste we face. That doesn't happen at the state, county, or local level; at least not nearly to the same degree, although it is starting to catch on at the lower levels lately. But we don't have a law-enforcement division in the county sanitation department, a law-enforcement division in the fleet-management department, etc. But at the federal level, we have more than 90 individual law-enforcement agencies.

It's crazy to look up the number of federal agencies that have waivers for armed employees flying commercial airliners. The dept of education, the FDIC (an insurance agency), the parks dept; can't wrap my head around the logic of that. The federal level is just so bloated that even when their actions aren't intentionally repressive, they're still ridiculously and horrifyingly wasteful.

Just the ramblings of another bitter, clinging, angry white male.
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Old 03-26-2013, 14:37   #36
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Originally Posted by Rick O'Shay View Post
... Just a trickle is actually making it to store shelves, it appears...
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I disagree.
I can't speak for the situation nationwide, and it's still not necessarily of some manipulative govt conspiracy either way, but in our area at least, deliveries are definitely down to 'trickle' level at best. There's not nearly as much being delivered to either the walmart store, the gun shop, the ace hardware or the local pawn shops as there was a few months ago.

There's definitely panic-buying so demand is up, but supply is measurably down as well; again at least in my immediate area.
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Old 03-26-2013, 14:50   #37
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That's kind of my point, LEO's being law enforcement officers. I don't believe the SSA needs its own, proprietary law-enforcement division. Investigative component maybe, but law-enforcement? Imo, every federal agency having its own LE division, investigative division, pension-management division, fleet-management division, etc, is both a cause and a symptom of the huge waste we face. That doesn't happen at the state, county, or local level; at least not nearly to the same degree, although it is starting to catch on at the lower levels lately. But we don't have a law-enforcement division in the county sanitation department, a law-enforcement division in the fleet-management department, etc. But at the federal level, we have more than 90 individual law-enforcement agencies.

It's crazy to look up the number of federal agencies that have waivers for armed employees flying commercial airliners. The dept of education, the FDIC (an insurance agency), the parks dept; can't wrap my head around the logic of that. The federal level is just so bloated that even when their actions aren't intentionally repressive, they're still ridiculously and horrifyingly wasteful.

Just the ramblings of another bitter, clinging, angry white male.
Investigator=LEO....same thing. If you mandate one with the power of law to investigate criminal activity and make arrests then by law they are considered a LEO who will need to be armed to do that job.

It is not necessarily a bad thing. It allows the investigator to specalize in the crimes that commonly victimize the agency and gives them a better understanding since they are more familar with the inner workings of the operation. The expertise needed to unravel a complex identity fraud case involving the SSA is totally different than what is needed by the Marine Fisheries Service who are investigating the trafficking of endangered marine species.
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:07   #38
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Yup....nothing more than the product of mass hoarding.
When is it hoarding?
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:12   #39
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I wonder if the government is just earmarking money through whatever agency is the best cover story so they can move money around. Can't justify $2 billion dollars for CIA/NSA toilet paper can they? So they just say $2 billion dollars to DHS for 1.6 billion rounds of ammo to make America a safer place for the children.
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:22   #40
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Originally Posted by quake View Post
I can't speak for the situation nationwide, and it's still not necessarily of some manipulative govt conspiracy either way, but in our area at least, deliveries are definitely down to 'trickle' level at best. There's not nearly as much being delivered to either the walmart store, the gun shop, the ace hardware or the local pawn shops as there was a few months ago.

There's definitely panic-buying so demand is up, but supply is measurably down as well; again at least in my immediate area.
Is that supply down because the suppliers/distributors where the walmart, ace hardware, pawn shops, etc, get their ammo are supplying more lucrative deals elsewhere?
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:54   #41
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When is it hoarding?
When people start buying it just because it is available which is in drastic contrast to the market norm.
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:59   #42
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When is it hoarding?
When other people are willing and able to pay for more something than you are.
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Old 03-26-2013, 16:19   #43
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Whatever you say. This isn't the 30's and we're not Nazis.
But continue making a fool of yourselves, I'm enjoying the laugh.
That may be the most perfect and succinct example I've ever seen of an obstinate refusal to learn from history. You could disregard every historical lesson ever learned, by saying: "that was then, but this is now." No wonder we humans keep making the same foolish mistakes over and over. It's actually funny. Now I'm laughing too.


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Congress is also seeking answers.
Didn't congress get the memo? Only kooks and fools question the intentions of their government and of "Dear Leader." Of course DHS needs billions of rounds of ammo, who are you to question them? We're all safer if the government is armed and nobody else is.* Pass the Soma! A gramme is better than a damn.

(* An uncomfortable fact: The greatest massacres in history have been caused by governments killing their own citizens. Ah, but that was then. This is now.)
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Old 03-26-2013, 17:32   #45
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Whatever you say. This isn't the 30's and we're not Nazis.


But continue making a fool of yourselves, I'm enjoying the laugh.
Our government is well on the way to fascism.
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Old 03-26-2013, 19:12   #46
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They can't exactly say the money was spent for condoms for secret service so they are saying its for DHS ammo...


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Old 03-26-2013, 22:20   #47
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I am not in a position to know if the mass purchase of ammunition by DHS and other federal agencies is being done to keep ammo out of the hands of the citizenry, but anyone who doubts that such a move by the feds is possible is a fool.
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Old 03-26-2013, 22:37   #48
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Somewhere between 33 and 39, time magazine had a man of the year you may have heard of.

Hitler.

If you set the barn on fire correctly, no one will see the flames until it is too late to put out the fire.

Happened in Germany in the 30's, happening again in USA today.

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Old 03-27-2013, 11:25   #49
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Our government is well on the way to fascism.
Its OK to disagree with the government and the officials we elect but statements like this demonstrate that you clearly have no idea what Fascism was.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:31   #50
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Somewhere between 33 and 39, time magazine had a man of the year you may have heard of.

Hitler.

If you set the barn on fire correctly, no one will see the flames until it is too late to put out the fire.

Happened in Germany in the 30's, happening again in USA today.

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The juxtaposition of these two covers has become an appalling festering meme of the worse kind.

If you take the time to read the two articles you would learn that:

1) Time's reporting of Hitler was highly critical of him and was an attempt to get the Western powers and the US in particular to wake up and pay attention.

2) Times's reporting of Obama was just the opposite
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