Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2013, 22:21   #21
20South
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East of CBUS
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Exactly.

DHS is comprised of a dozen or more agencies and the Federal law enforcement training centers. Just take the 3 biggest agencies which are Border Patrol, ICE and Coast Guard and you are supplying 90k+.

Now lets add some numbers using a bare minimum standard.

Qualify quarterly with rifle and pistol....800 rounds per year

100 round practice allotment per month per weapon platform.....2400 rounds per year


3200 rounds each x 90k = 288 million rounds per year.

That is just for the 3 top agencies at a pretty low end training level. Now does 1.2 billion rounds over 5 years look like such a big number when you look at it logically?


Context....without it numbers are meaningless.
Ive seen two articles referencing that DHS uses 15 million rounds annually on training. Coast Guard was excluded from the contract purchase. So as in my above post, I dont think they are hoarding ammo and understand the "up to" specification, but I dont think these numbers are accurate.

"The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga., and others like it run by DHS use up to 15 million rounds a year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...dhs-stocks-up/

There are other sources, but that was the easiest one to find.
__________________
"You should never under estimate the predictability of stupidity" - Bullet Tooth Tony
20South is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 22:24   #22
GunHo198
Senior Member
 
GunHo198's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,116
Was going to start a new thread but this one is already on the topic so here's a link:

Congress is also seeking answers.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...ammo-contracts


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
This Message Sponsored in Part by "One Angry White Guy"!
GunHo198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 23:13   #23
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,913


Quote:
Originally Posted by 20South View Post
Ive seen two articles referencing that DHS uses 15 million rounds annually on training. Coast Guard was excluded from the contract purchase. So as in my above post, I dont think they are hoarding ammo and understand the "up to" specification, but I dont think these numbers are accurate.

"The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga., and others like it run by DHS use up to 15 million rounds a year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...dhs-stocks-up/

There are other sources, but that was the easiest one to find.
That is simply what is used by the training centers which run the LE academies and specialized in service training. Quals, practice and the majority of training is provided locally by each agency at local facilities and has nothing to do with the multi-agency FLETC.

Last edited by ray9898; 03-26-2013 at 09:23..
ray9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 23:16   #24
ArmoryDoc
Senior Member
 
ArmoryDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
Lets look at the Big picture.....Ammo, Mrap Assault Ambush Armored vehicles, approval to kill American citizens with Drones.....so all joking aside....they refuse to answer to congress.....what's with this ?
The simple answer is, they anticipate armed conflict with American citizens. Now, what over ? Who knows. But they aren't arming up to stop the invading Muslim hoards from Somalia now, are they ? They are arming up to confront Americans on a large scale. There is no other answer when you put it all together.
ArmoryDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 02:47   #25
BlackPaladin
Senior Member
 
BlackPaladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 2,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
Between 1933 and 1939, there were a lot of alarmists in Germany who were concerned about what was happening to the German culture and government. Of course, the Nazis mocked them and called them "loonies."
As much as this ammo purchase BS has come across GT, there should be a required posting for everyone to CALM DOWN. Anyone that knows anything, knows that the "big purchase" is not all that big and was layed out in small increments.

If you believe anything else, you should tighten the foil.
__________________
niners club #187
moto club #600
Bull dawgs club #55
RIP Ofc. Tommy Decker #6402 CSPD
BlackPaladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 05:00   #26
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 36,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
You can hardly miss the many stories about DHS buying billions of rounds of ammunition (hollowpoints) for "practice." What the heck is going on?
A. How much they are actually buying is exaggerated.

B. The zombies aren't going to kill themselves.

C. Note that I only mentioned killing zombies, since I get an infraction every time I talk about killing in a way that wouldn't raise an eyebrow among people I know in the real world.
__________________
Quote:
This is the internet - you will never learn to shoot here.
- Me, 2014.
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 08:03   #27
Stevekozak
Returning video
 
Stevekozak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
Between 1933 and 1939, there were a lot of alarmists in Germany who were concerned about what was happening to the German culture and government. Of course, the Nazis mocked them and called them "loonies."
A valid point! Those that refuse to heed history are doomed to repeat it.
__________________
"You fight until you die. That's the whole deal in life. PERIOD." Regular Joe
Stevekozak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 08:05   #28
Stevekozak
Returning video
 
Stevekozak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPaladin View Post
As much as this ammo purchase BS has come across GT, there should be a required posting for everyone to CALM DOWN. Anyone that knows anything, knows that the "big purchase" is not all that big and was layed out in small increments.

If you believe anything else, you should tighten the foil.
Yes yes!! We must take our Soma and be good little Citizens!!! Praise to the Great Ford!!
__________________
"You fight until you die. That's the whole deal in life. PERIOD." Regular Joe
Stevekozak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 08:21   #29
kirgi08
Silver Membership
Watcher.
 
kirgi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Acme proving grounds.
Posts: 28,508
Blog Entries: 1




__________________
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

If you look like food,You will be eaten.

Rip Chad.You will be missed.
kirgi08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:02   #30
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 8,101
I've only seen one actual RFQ, and it was for roughly 10-11 million rounds per year for five years iirc. I'd be curious to see where the 1.6 billion number came from.

Not pooh-poohing it; I personally don't understand why the social security administration bought something like 175,000 rounds of pistol ammo last year either. Social security needs that kind of ammo, seriously...?
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
quake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 10:09   #31
tenforme
Senior Member
 
tenforme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevekozak View Post
A valid point! Those that refuse to heed history are doomed to repeat it.
The lesson seems to have been learned. If the last election shows anything its is that we seem to have stopped electing alarmist, right-wing, nationalist nut jobs into office.
tenforme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 11:22   #32
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,913


Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
Not pooh-poohing it; I personally don't understand why the social security administration bought something like 175,000 rounds of pistol ammo last year either. Social security needs that kind of ammo, seriously...?
Why not? The agency has a division of federally mandated LEO's who investigate fraud that targets the SS system.

Last edited by ray9898; 03-26-2013 at 11:25..
ray9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 12:21   #33
Warp
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Warp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 30,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick O'Shay View Post
My understanding is that, the federal government has contracted for "options" of billions of rounds of popular calibers and trying to overwhelm ammo manufacturers, in order to keep ammo off the store shelves. Just a trickle is actually making it to store shelves, it appears. I guess that, if the government buys up virtually ALL ammo, then they can control where it ultimately is used.

I haven't seen a more reasonable explanation to date.
I disagree.
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I HIGHLY recommend Google Chrome and Adblock to all world wide web users. (I would have left GT a long time ago without these extensions!)
Warp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 13:52   #34
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,913


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
I disagree.
Yup....nothing more than the product of mass hoarding.

Last edited by ray9898; 03-26-2013 at 14:33..
ray9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 14:30   #35
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 8,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Why not? The agency has a division of federally mandated LEO's who investigate fraud that targets the SS system.
That's kind of my point, LEO's being law enforcement officers. I don't believe the SSA needs its own, proprietary law-enforcement division. Investigative component maybe, but law-enforcement? Imo, every federal agency having its own LE division, investigative division, pension-management division, fleet-management division, etc, is both a cause and a symptom of the huge waste we face. That doesn't happen at the state, county, or local level; at least not nearly to the same degree, although it is starting to catch on at the lower levels lately. But we don't have a law-enforcement division in the county sanitation department, a law-enforcement division in the fleet-management department, etc. But at the federal level, we have more than 90 individual law-enforcement agencies.

It's crazy to look up the number of federal agencies that have waivers for armed employees flying commercial airliners. The dept of education, the FDIC (an insurance agency), the parks dept; can't wrap my head around the logic of that. The federal level is just so bloated that even when their actions aren't intentionally repressive, they're still ridiculously and horrifyingly wasteful.

Just the ramblings of another bitter, clinging, angry white male.
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
quake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 14:37   #36
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 8,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick O'Shay View Post
... Just a trickle is actually making it to store shelves, it appears...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
I disagree.
I can't speak for the situation nationwide, and it's still not necessarily of some manipulative govt conspiracy either way, but in our area at least, deliveries are definitely down to 'trickle' level at best. There's not nearly as much being delivered to either the walmart store, the gun shop, the ace hardware or the local pawn shops as there was a few months ago.

There's definitely panic-buying so demand is up, but supply is measurably down as well; again at least in my immediate area.
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
quake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 14:50   #37
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,913


Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
That's kind of my point, LEO's being law enforcement officers. I don't believe the SSA needs its own, proprietary law-enforcement division. Investigative component maybe, but law-enforcement? Imo, every federal agency having its own LE division, investigative division, pension-management division, fleet-management division, etc, is both a cause and a symptom of the huge waste we face. That doesn't happen at the state, county, or local level; at least not nearly to the same degree, although it is starting to catch on at the lower levels lately. But we don't have a law-enforcement division in the county sanitation department, a law-enforcement division in the fleet-management department, etc. But at the federal level, we have more than 90 individual law-enforcement agencies.

It's crazy to look up the number of federal agencies that have waivers for armed employees flying commercial airliners. The dept of education, the FDIC (an insurance agency), the parks dept; can't wrap my head around the logic of that. The federal level is just so bloated that even when their actions aren't intentionally repressive, they're still ridiculously and horrifyingly wasteful.

Just the ramblings of another bitter, clinging, angry white male.
Investigator=LEO....same thing. If you mandate one with the power of law to investigate criminal activity and make arrests then by law they are considered a LEO who will need to be armed to do that job.

It is not necessarily a bad thing. It allows the investigator to specalize in the crimes that commonly victimize the agency and gives them a better understanding since they are more familar with the inner workings of the operation. The expertise needed to unravel a complex identity fraud case involving the SSA is totally different than what is needed by the Marine Fisheries Service who are investigating the trafficking of endangered marine species.
ray9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 15:07   #38
20South
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East of CBUS
Posts: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Yup....nothing more than the product of mass hoarding.
When is it hoarding?
__________________
"You should never under estimate the predictability of stupidity" - Bullet Tooth Tony
20South is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 15:12   #39
GunHo198
Senior Member
 
GunHo198's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,116
I wonder if the government is just earmarking money through whatever agency is the best cover story so they can move money around. Can't justify $2 billion dollars for CIA/NSA toilet paper can they? So they just say $2 billion dollars to DHS for 1.6 billion rounds of ammo to make America a safer place for the children.
__________________
This Message Sponsored in Part by "One Angry White Guy"!
GunHo198 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 15:22   #40
Warp
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Warp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 30,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
I can't speak for the situation nationwide, and it's still not necessarily of some manipulative govt conspiracy either way, but in our area at least, deliveries are definitely down to 'trickle' level at best. There's not nearly as much being delivered to either the walmart store, the gun shop, the ace hardware or the local pawn shops as there was a few months ago.

There's definitely panic-buying so demand is up, but supply is measurably down as well; again at least in my immediate area.
Is that supply down because the suppliers/distributors where the walmart, ace hardware, pawn shops, etc, get their ammo are supplying more lucrative deals elsewhere?
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I HIGHLY recommend Google Chrome and Adblock to all world wide web users. (I would have left GT a long time ago without these extensions!)
Warp is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:08.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 539
123 Members
416 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31