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Old 03-22-2013, 16:20   #76
Angry Fist
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Originally Posted by skeeter7 View Post
Those people are the reason why I rather be at the range alone. I don't have to worry about getting shot by anyone other than myself.
Do like I do. Start acting like a jackass ten minutes after you get there, or before people even pull up.

Works every time, and I cain't concentrate with other people around.
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:21   #77
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I'm in favor of mandatory gun safety and marksmanship training for everyone, as a prerequisite to graduation from school. Doesn't matter if they qualify in high school or junior high school, or even elementary school, but nobody gets a diploma without it.



(I'm also in favor of mandatory checkbook balancing training, and mandatory sammich making training, and mandatory English language fluency, basic arithmetic and first aid skills, how to tie a necktie and shine your own shoes.)

Not everyone deserves a high school diploma; such as idiots who can't figure out how to handle a gun.

Maybe if everybody had basic gun training, liberals wouldn't insist that those who choose to become gun owners need to jump thru their latest hoops.

What he says makes a lot of sense!
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:25   #78
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In my mind, I know there are some people who are too careless/ignorant/stupid (pick one) to have a firearm. However, the 2nd Ammendment makes no such distinction; so I just live with the risk.
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:51   #79
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In my mind, I know there are some people who are too careless/ignorant/stupid (pick one) to have a firearm. However, the 2nd Ammendment makes no such distinction; so I just live with the risk.
Elitists are elitists and snobs are snobs. There is always someone who thinks they are "better" and more capable and should be deciding what other citizens can and can not do. Lets not fall into that trap.
Remember firearms make people equal.
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Old 03-22-2013, 17:03   #80
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This country is full of people who want to control others..It's each individuals job to understand the safety and responsibilities of gun ownership. If they choose not to use common sense then so be it. If i see unsafe gun handling or other stupidity I usually say something and then remove myself from the situation. I don't actively engage with new shooters who can't grasp basic safety and will leave a range if I see unsafe handling which isn't corrected by the staff.
Well said.........We need to get away from this "nanny state" attitude here in this country before it's far to late.
Personal responsibility, what ever happened to it?
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Old 03-22-2013, 17:17   #81
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Yesterday I was at neighbor's. His son (@17) had OLD 16 guage pump shotgun (Ithica I think) He sets butt on his boot/places hands over end of barrel and STARTS to lean forward. (I may be wrong but I could see his chin on hands) Thing must have a 18"+ barrel...
I stop him, he can't see problem. (least he didn't say "its not loaded")

Then again kids get DL and think they can drive a stick in traffic who have NEVER driven one. There are tons of dangerous pieces of equipment that folks don't know how to safely use.
Have firearms safety in HS and save some lives.
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Old 03-22-2013, 17:30   #82
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Actually, I started firearms safety training long before I ever saw a real gun.

My father allowed me to play with my toy guns, but I wasn't allowed to point them at family members, including the dog and the TV set. The cat didn't mind, so that was OK.

I was taught how to aim, but also to keep my finger out of the trigger guard until ready to pretend to shoot.

These habits came in handy when I finally got a Daisy BB rifle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 17:30   #83
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Do like I do. Start acting like a jackass ten minutes after you get there, or before people even pull up.

Works every time, and I cain't concentrate with other people around.
People also get a little jittery when you shoot with one hand and text with the other. Especially when it's a rifle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 17:38   #84
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People also get a little jittery when you shoot with one hand and text with the other. Especially when it's a rifle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 18:16   #85
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... if I leave multiple loaded, mostly unchambered, firearms around my house ...

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Yes. They all should be chambered.
What if a couple of them are 870's?


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I am sure there are a few people that have only bought used guns...


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People also get a little jittery when you shoot with one hand and text with the other. Especially when it's a rifle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 18:39   #86
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Well said.........We need to get away from this "nanny state" attitude here in this country before it's far to late.
Personal responsibility, what ever happened to it?
For starters, we're 300+ million people and growing. The pursuit of bigger, better homes, more cars, larger screen TVs, boats, and all the other must-have luxuries pushed moms to work. Weary parents, distracted by career demands, discovered its easier to "give 'em what they want" than teach responsibility, self reliance, working and saving for a baseball glove or a new bike. Instant gratification replaced individual initiative. Personal debt replaced saving accounts.

Personal responsibility? Whats that? Gosh, it sounds hard!

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Old 03-22-2013, 19:00   #87
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People also get a little jittery when you shoot with one hand and text with the other. Especially when it's a rifle.
I treat those guys like I do texters in traffic. Throw both beers at them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 19:05   #88
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I worry more about car owners.
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Old 03-22-2013, 22:46   #89
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I would suggest that ignorant voters are much more dangerous than ignorant gun owners ever could be. Maybe we should revisit certain requirements to be allowed to vote?

Irresponsible and unfit "mothers" injure and kill their children on a fairly regular basis. Again, maybe some "common sense" restrictions would be in order? Because, after all, "If it saves the life of one kid, I'm all over it." It's for the children.

Why are these notions quickly dismissed out of hand as ridiculous but conditional exercise of an actual constitutional right is simply "common sense"?

Freedom is a risky business.

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Old 03-22-2013, 23:10   #90
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I'm a member of a private range and occasionally go to the local public range. The public pistol range is wide open. Everyone standing on the firing line. Its just dangerous as hell. Lots and lots of new shooters. Last time I was there some old codger and his kids showed up with a NIB pistol and a box of ammo. He fired on a cold range with someone checking their target. Then when we yelled at him he stood there with his pistol by his side, finger on the trigger. He swept me so many times that I finally told him if he swept me again I was going to draw on him and put the front site on his forehead and I meant it. He huffed a bit and complained to the RO and left.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:43   #91
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A relative of mine just took ccw class. He said people came with zero experience, guns new in box and some didn't speak English. Fun day for the instructor.
A guy I know went to his daughters and her boy friend was using the laser on his 380 like a pointer to play with the dog. Muzzling everything and everyone in sight. He had a long talk with him.
I was training in Jiu Jistsu/MMA, before anyone called it MMA. I liked it better when it was a fringe sport. Im starting to feel that way about shooting. But I know we need the numbers, So I will live with it and educate when I can.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:38   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
I'm in favor of mandatory gun safety and marksmanship training for everyone, as a prerequisite to graduation from school. Doesn't matter if they qualify in high school or junior high school, or even elementary school, but nobody gets a diploma without it. ...
You know, if the parent(s)/guardian(s) of the student(s) agreed to this up front, and signed off on it, it just might hold up to a legal challenge.

Hmmmmmmmm........... interesting. Seriously interesting idea that could work on some level, maybe not prevent graduation, but it may work on some level within the confines and dictum of a private school.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:54   #93
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IMHO:
All 4 Points above SHOULD Prevent Accidents with firearms
#1, 2, 3, & 4 SHOULD BE OBVIOUS
If you can't abide by all 4, instinctively, YOU NEED MORE TRAINING!
I know for a fact these rules saved my uncle from getting hit with some possible shot ricochet when we where hunting rabbits. I was maybe 13 or 14 at the time.

I don't know actually how many, but countless hours of going over these rules and practicing these rules at the dinner table, waiting in line, while shopping, at the range, long drives, short drives etcetera were spent going over the rules and thinking out possible scenarios were it would not be okay to shoot. Practice, practice, and practice these rules.

They're simple enough to teach to a 6 year old. They work. Period.

There were two more rules added for hunting camp. No loaded long guns in camp, and no loaded sidearms that were not in a holster "on your hip" in camp.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:06   #94
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A quick look at world history tells us speech and religion have killed far more then firearms and are far more dangerous.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:36   #95
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I'm a member of a private range and occasionally go to the local public range. The public pistol range is wide open. Everyone standing on the firing line. Its just dangerous as hell. Lots and lots of new shooters. Last time I was there some old codger and his kids showed up with a NIB pistol and a box of ammo. He fired on a cold range with someone checking their target. Then when we yelled at him he stood there with his pistol by his side, finger on the trigger. He swept me so many times that I finally told him if he swept me again I was going to draw on him and put the front site on his forehead and I meant it. He huffed a bit and complained to the RO and left.
EXACTLY why I like me time only at the range. Scary ****!
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:10   #96
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Kids that grow up on farms and ranches these days might get exposed to firearm training from family, but most city families don't include guns in the growing up process. That's my experience, anyway.

People are buying handguns today who have zero experience/training, or understanding of firearm laws. I recently witnessed a guy buying his wife a handgun, and she didn't know the difference between a semi-auto and a revolver. Are people like this ready for the range or CC?

In my state, lots of people attend a two or three hour class at a gun show to qualify for a CC license. No other experience is required.

I see no problem in requiring people new to concealed carry to participate in some meaningful training program and/or pass a competency examination to qualify for a license. People unwilling to demonstrate basic skills clearly don't want to carry very badly.

The existence of our 2nd Amendment rights doesn't mean common sense must be abandoned. Will requiring a competency test add risk to our ability to preserve 2A? It might, with the ever-shifting political landscape, but it will also reduce the number of fools walking around in public with deadly weapons.

The argument that we simply should expect people to get training and be responsible with firearms without oversight doesn't fly. Too many people don't know, don't care, aren't smart enough, aren't mature enough or are just too lazy to do the things our mentors insisted we do.

Police organizations require training, qualification and periodic testing to insure competency. Why should private citizens be allowed to carry firearms in public without any competency standard?

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:14   #97
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I'm a member of a private range and occasionally go to the local public range. The public pistol range is wide open. Everyone standing on the firing line. Its just dangerous as hell. Lots and lots of new shooters. Last time I was there some old codger and his kids showed up with a NIB pistol and a box of ammo. He fired on a cold range with someone checking their target. Then when we yelled at him he stood there with his pistol by his side, finger on the trigger. He swept me so many times that I finally told him if he swept me again I was going to draw on him and put the front site on his forehead and I meant it. He huffed a bit and complained to the RO and left.
Seen this, and the RO or Red Hats at my range are on these guys in a hot second.

Sounds like those ROs at your range are pretty much as bad as the numbnuts sweeping everyone.

When at the range and I bring guests that are new to the gun world...I actually drill them long before we even go to the range. And then at the range they are my responsibility to make sure they follow are rules of the range.

When I am there on my own, and see someone that are clearly struggling (and I do watch and observe everyone on the line, OCD I guess) I will try to make conversation by leading in with the weapon they have, then into their experience. And then ask if they would like some help with what ever they are struggling with. And while I help, I go over the rules so they are aware.

Just pay it forward.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:24   #98
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Kids that grow up on farms and ranches these days might get exposed to firearm training from family, but most city families don't include guns in the growing up process. That's my experience, anyway.

People are buying handguns today who have zero experience/training, or understanding of firearm laws. I recently witnessed a guy buying his wife a handgun, and she didn't know the difference between a semi-auto and a revolver. Are people like this ready for the range or CC?

In my state, lots of people attend a two or three hour class at a gun show to qualify for a CC license. No other experience is required.

I see no problem in requiring people new to concealed carry to participate in some meaningful training program and/or pass a competency examination to qualify for a license. People unwilling to demonstrate basic skills clearly don't want to carry very much.

The existence of our 2nd Amendment rights doesn't mean common sense must be abandoned. Will requiring a competency test add risk to our ability to preserve 2A? It might, with the ever-shifting political landscape, but it will also reduce the number of fools walking around in public with deadly weapons.

The argument that we simply should expect people to get training and be responsible with firearms without oversight doesn't fly. Too many people don't know, don't care, aren't smart enough, aren't mature enough or are just too lazy to do the things our mentors insisted we do.

Police organizations require training, qualification and periodic testing to insure competency. Why should private citizens be allowed to carry firearms in public without any competency standard?
Police organizations are paid to purposely go into situations that require specialized training.

The average Joe is only using it for basic defense.

Problem is that once you allow the camel nose under the tent, you will have the whole camel in the tent before you know it.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:19   #99
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Police organizations are paid to purposely go into situations that require specialized training.

The average Joe is only using it for basic defense.

Problem is that once you allow the camel nose under the tent, you will have the whole camel in the tent before you know it.
I understand the camel's nose concern.

My concern is that the clueless, careless shooters we see at the range, some of whom are new CC license holders, leave there and head for home, church, WalMart and other public destinations where there are no range officers. They're a danger to the public. Furthermore, many folks here advise these newcomers to carry 'combat ready' regardless of competency.

It just doesn't feel right to ignore the risk of harm from friendly fire while we refuse to ignore the comparable risk of criminal attack.

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Old 03-23-2013, 11:40   #100
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Seen this, and the RO or Red Hats at my range are on these guys in a hot second.

Sounds like those ROs at your range are pretty much as bad as the numbnuts sweeping everyone.

When at the range and I bring guests that are new to the gun world...I actually drill them long before we even go to the range. And then at the range they are my responsibility to make sure they follow are rules of the range.

When I am there on my own, and see someone that are clearly struggling (and I do watch and observe everyone on the line, OCD I guess) I will try to make conversation by leading in with the weapon they have, then into their experience. And then ask if they would like some help with what ever they are struggling with. And while I help, I go over the rules so they are aware.

Just pay it forward.
Ill admit since Chris Kyle was murdered I've been a little nervous on public ranges. And yeah once I get swept even once I've got an issue with the shooter, and he'll know about it. But the ROs there are excellent and catch on to that stuff real quick


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