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Old 03-22-2013, 12:09   #51
Peace Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS104 View Post
Yep, we were.
I remember when i first started CCing I was absolutely CONVINCED that i was printing and that everyone knew I had a gun and that I was going to be stopped by a police officer.
I also thought that I was going to set off alarms in stores and libraries.

Now, its as much a part of my daily routine as putting on my tie.
Wow, you actually wear a tie to wal-mart?
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:10   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoflungdo View Post
Waiting for the inevitable driving and owning an automobile comparison...
It's easier not to shoot someone than it is not to bump into them while driving. Just saying...
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:15   #53
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
... If a person new to firearms lacks adequate training, he may teach himself some very bad habits. Extensive practice of bad techniques can lead to unsafe performance thats very hard to unlearn.
Yes, and woman that never held a gun prior to borrowing one from a friend a couple days prior was able to stop her crazy neighbor/co-worker from killing her with a knife. No training per se.

Gun ownership works in SD situations sans training. Is training a great idea? Yes. Should it be mandated by .gov? No.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:16   #54
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I like having to do actual training in order to carry. I wouldnt want just anyone carrying if they dont know how to use it.

I am concerned about many gun owners, when i see someone shooting teacup hollywood weaver and pitching rounds in the dirt from flinching and fumbling through reloads its painful, when i see muzzle sweeping its scary
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:21   #55
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Originally Posted by Glock30Eric View Post
The safe slows you down to defend an intruder in your house. It's not worth it. Train everyone in family. Past in America, almost everyone knew how to handle the gun. Liberals has won in this battle.
I think this is the first time I've agreed with one of your posts.. But I wholeheartedly agree with this one.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:22   #56
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Wow, you actually wear a tie to wal-mart?
Classiest lookin redneck you've ever seen

Sometimes..... i even wear sleeves.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:39   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
In California, you have to have a Handgun Safety Certificate before you can buy any handgun. The certificate is good for 5 years.

Basically, it is nothing more than a test on safe gun handling and storage requirements. Among other things, it enumerates the gun owner's legal responsibilities.

OK, that covers the certificate. At the time you pick up a handgun, you have to demonstrate that you can load and unload the weapon including, in the case of a semiauto, proving that the chamber is empty.

In theory, every new gun owner is fully aware of the functioning of a handgun, knows the requirements for storage and is fully aware of their legal responsibilities plus has demonstrated at least a minimal capability in safe gun handling.

All new handguns come with a locking device. For rifles and shotguns, you have to certify that you have a compliant gun safe or storage cabinet.

It's a start...

Richard
Shouldn't we implement the same level of concern, regulation, and oversight on all the things equally or more deadly (on an accidental basis) than firearms? That list would include:

Car crashes
Falls
Poisoning
Drowning
Fire
Medical mistakes
STIs/STDs
Choking on foreign objects
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Old 03-22-2013, 13:32   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
In California, you have to have a Handgun Safety Certificate before you can buy any handgun. The certificate is good for 5 years.
and then they do exactly what Chicago did, "Yes, it's possible but we didn't get any more forms printed so you cannot fill one out" Poof, instant gun ban without a law passed.

No thanks.

Do people never learn or do people STILL actually believe there is such thing as "compromise"?
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Old 03-22-2013, 13:38   #59
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Required training (and licensing) for carry is a modern day poll tax.

The right to arms IS the natural right of self defense. A fundamental right like speech and requiring training and licensing for for firearms is basically like requiring training and licensing to not wear a muzzle & gag in public. It would be like requiring training and licensing to post on the Internet. Like requiring training and licensing and fees before you can worship at a public church.
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Old 03-22-2013, 14:18   #60
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Originally Posted by Fear Night View Post
This. Somehow we all made it through the new owner phase just fine.

The best thing we can do as experienced gun owners is to pass our knowledge and experience down. When I was a new owner, this person for me was my uncle.

Let's help all new owners know and understand the rules of gun safety every chance we get. If we see a rule broken, be bold and speak up.
^^This
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Old 03-22-2013, 14:24   #61
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Originally Posted by Diesel McBadass View Post
I like having to do actual training in order to carry. I wouldnt want just anyone carrying if they dont know how to use it.

I am concerned about many gun owners, when i see someone shooting teacup hollywood weaver and pitching rounds in the dirt from flinching and fumbling through reloads its painful, when i see muzzle sweeping its scary
Have you ever tried to help the poor dude out? Talked to him/her...where are the Red Hats?
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Old 03-22-2013, 14:32   #62
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My personal goal is to take one person who has never owned nor fired a firearm to the range every month. Young or old - doesnt matter........

Of course the first 20 minutes is safe gun handling and Jeff Cooper's "4 rules".
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Old 03-22-2013, 14:50   #63
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So, should the government be involved in mandating that gun owners recieve training?
They already are in some states. No big deal - study the book, take the test, renew every 5 years.

Quote:
I'm all for people getting the training they need. I think for CCW permits, an applicant should demonstrate safety, and their ability to shoot a reasonable course of fire if they want to carry a firearm in public.

But, I'm against the government being involved in mandatory training, to their standards to own a firearm.
Got a Driver's License? You didn't get it without some amount of training. At least enough to pass a test of competency.

The underlying logic is the same. Your activity, owning a gun or driving a car, puts other people at risk. It is best to require training to reduce that risk.

I just don't have a problem with this. Sure, I liked it better when my DD214 (discharge papers) was evidence that I knew which end of a gun the bullet came out but, around here, those days are gone.

In some ways, I am comforted by the fact that people have to have a Handgun Safety Certificate before they can buy a handgun. It's a start...

Richard
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Old 03-22-2013, 14:57   #64
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
They already are in some states. No big deal - study the book, take the test, renew every 5 years.



Got a Driver's License? You didn't get it without some amount of training. At least enough to pass a test of competency.

The underlying logic is the same. Your activity, owning a gun or driving a car, puts other people at risk. It is best to require training to reduce that risk.

I just don't have a problem with this. Sure, I liked it better when my DD214 (discharge papers) were evidence that I knew which end of a gun the bullet came out but, around here, those days are gone.

In some ways, I am comforted by the fact that people have to have a Handgun Safety Certificate before they can buy a handgun. It's a start...

Richard
There were no automobiles when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written. There were firearms, that one can reasonably argue were proportionally as dangerous as the modern weapons of today.

It is a slippery slope. Once .gov gets its snout in the trough, it is just a matter of ammending the rules and making it more difficult for us as gun owners.
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:08   #65
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Every time I go to the range I'm a little concerned. Not much more than when I'm driving on public roads though.
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:09   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
They already are in some states. No big deal - study the book, take the test, renew every 5 years.



Got a Driver's License? You didn't get it without some amount of training. At least enough to pass a test of competency.

The underlying logic is the same. Your activity, owning a gun or driving a car, puts other people at risk. It is best to require training to reduce that risk.
Perhaps you could show me where it says anything about an automobile in the constitution, please?

I can find it where it says about guns.

I can find court cases that say literacy tests are illegal to perform to exercise a right, too.

I must be missing where cars are mentioned. If they're not, it's not a valid comparison.
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:33   #67
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Meh, before Sandy H. I'm sure "all" gun owners were highly qualified!
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:43   #68
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If you accept that the government has the power to mandate firearms training, then by definition you accept that the government has the power to decide how intensive, expensive, lengthy and difficult to obtain that training will be.

Just as registration lists offer a backdoor avenue to confiscations, government mandated firearm training programs ultimately offer a backdoor avenue to achieving a de-facto firearm ban.
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:54   #69
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I happen to feel that our "entitlement" to firearms comes with a responsibility because times have changed a bit. In the 1700's it was rather obvious that those who exercised their right were probably more familiar with firearms that the average member of today's society. Our responsibility is to help spread safety and education. I don't want mandatory training, but there have been a lot of stupid laws enacted and I would like to remove the excuses, or at least limit them.

When we exercise a right there is a responsibility attached. Notice how so many complain about irresponsible people in society wanting their "entitlements"?

If we as individuals accept the responsibility to educated new owners we help keep the line clear between a right and its responsibilities and the "entitlements" that have no responsibilities.
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Old 03-22-2013, 15:59   #70
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Originally Posted by F14Scott View Post
Shouldn't we implement the same level of concern, regulation, and oversight on all the things equally or more deadly (on an accidental basis) than firearms? That list would include:

Car crashes
Falls
Poisoning
Drowning
Fire
Medical mistakes
STIs/STDs
Choking on foreign objects
As a LONG TIME shooter, I have read all the stories I every want to see where some kid finds a gun and shoots himself, a family member or a friend. All because the adults were STUPID! The latest story was a cop's kid down south of San Jose somewhere.

There is NO EXCUSE! If it takes a Handgun Safety Certificate to get people to think, so be it! Of course, cops are exempt. That's dumb...

I remember as a teenager, my friend and I discovered his dad's semi-auto handgun. We got lucky...

Even earlier, when I was probably 10, my parents bought a used car. I found a loaded 1911 under the front seat and was running around the back yard with it. My dad took it away and not 10 minutes later I was running around banging on a shotgun shell I found in the same place.

One thing the HSC training brings out is the criminal liability of not securing weapons. Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened if the kid's mother had secured the guns. It is only fitting that she was the first victim.

I just don't have a problem with the Handgun Safety Certificate. I didn't like having to prove myself after having shot guns for over 50 years but so be it. If it saves the life of one kid, I'm all over it.

Richard
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:05   #71
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You know, I'm not really saying it should be a government mandated training. I am saying that a lot of the new adults acquiring firearms do not have the level of training that has been traditionally provided by a father or the military.

I would like to see those of us with a more mature level of experience embracing the new guys to provide some level of training. Both my son and my son in law have been informed (maybe too much, they think) as to what I feel is acceptable gun behavior. After "class" they we're rewarded each with a gun safe that they're expected to use, especially in the presence of little hands.

I really wonder how many guys have no real mentor, and feel they can handle it, because they're at Level 27 in Call of Duty.

That's what I have personally observed this at some of the recent gun shows and gun shops. I've seen in more often that most would think, and that's what spooks me a little.
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:08   #72
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I'm in favor of mandatory gun safety and marksmanship training for everyone, as a prerequisite to graduation from school. Doesn't matter if they qualify in high school or junior high school, or even elementary school, but nobody gets a diploma without it.



(I'm also in favor of mandatory checkbook balancing training, and mandatory sammich making training, and mandatory English language fluency, basic arithmetic and first aid skills, how to tie a necktie and shine your own shoes.)

Not everyone deserves a high school diploma; such as idiots who can't figure out how to handle a gun.

Maybe if everybody had basic gun training, liberals wouldn't insist that those who choose to become gun owners need to jump thru their latest hoops.

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Old 03-22-2013, 16:08   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Gun responsibility is a right of passage. Fathers/Mothers to their children, so on and so forth. For those whose mom or dad didn't own guns and are really brand new to guns, then learn "The Gun Safety Rules" we all learned, beyond this, there is no need for any additional anything for new gun owners and I simply say practice, practice, and practice some more.

The Four Rules by Colonel Jeff Cooper:
  1. All guns are always loaded.
  2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
  3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
  4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
IMHO:
All 4 Points above SHOULD Prevent Accidents with firearms
#1, 2, 3, & 4 SHOULD BE OBVIOUS
If you can't abide by all 4, instinctively, YOU NEED MORE TRAINING!
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Old 03-22-2013, 16:13   #74
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened if the kid's mother had secured the guns. It is only fitting that she was the first victim.
1. I don't recall seeing any information about how she stored her guns. Nor do we know if her son could have gotten to them anyway, or used a bomb and killed even more kids.
2. That she was murdered does not seem fitting to me.
3. People should learn gun safety, and we should help them to do so, but no laws are needed to do so. Nor are such laws good for our country.


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Old 03-22-2013, 16:18   #75
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Maybe if everybody had basic gun training, liberals wouldn't insist that those who choose to become gun owners need to jump thru their latest hoops.

I guess that's what I'm really trying to say.

We need to police our own or someone will eventually feel the need to do it for us.
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