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Old 03-26-2013, 14:44   #226
whoflungdo
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Your reading of my 'white flag' post is what you have chosen to make it. In at least one subsequent post I admitted again that I couldn't make a case for a competency test, that it isn't easy to do, and thats the way it should be. Ou have a bad case of selective memory. Read my posts again with an honest fairness gauge and you'll see that I am respectful to a fault

I urge you to look for disrespect in any of my posts over several years. You won't find it unless someone has insulted me when such treatment was unwarranted. On he other hand, I won't be intimidated by yapping from you or anyone else.

I don't need your blessing to participate here. I'm not willing to "stay home" as peace warrior suggested. I will continue to think freely and speak openly with certainty that a few do not control all that happens here.
You go girl!
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Old 03-26-2013, 14:48   #227
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Originally Posted by JennG17 View Post
My husband and I are new gun owners and in Ohio you have to take a 12 hr class for ccw. However from the feedback from friends it doesn't tell you much about how to fix problems when your gun jams, or lodges a live load in the chamber. I want a class to show/teach me things of the what if these things happen. I know youtube and friends can help us but I don't want to be in another situation where I have no clue what to do and feel absolutely helpless.
Congratulations.

There are a lot of sections here a GT that you may find helpful. The fact that you recognize the issue and are seeking answers shows that you are intrinsically far from helpless.

I am sure if you were to post something in Carry issues giving your general area you will find many people here willing to give advice on resources.

Again, congratulations, glad you understand the questions you need to ask.
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Old 03-26-2013, 14:49   #228
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So watching internet videos makes one knowledgeable and an expert? Neat. So how do we know all these new gun owners are not going home and watching Youtube videos to become experts? I mean if that is all that it takes.
Who implied that watching videos was "all it takes?"

Educating one's self is never a bad thing btw, and factual & informational video is a great format to learn from.
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Old 03-26-2013, 14:54   #229
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Your reading of my 'white flag' post is what you have chosen to make it. In at least one subsequent post I admitted again that I couldn't make a case for a competency test, that it isn't easy to do, and thats the way it should be. Ou have a bad case of selective memory. Read my posts again with an honest fairness gauge and you'll see that I am respectful to a fault

I urge you to look for disrespect in any of my posts over several years. You won't find it unless someone has insulted me when such treatment was unwarranted. On he other hand, I won't be intimidated by yapping from you or anyone else.

I don't need your blessing to participate here. I'm not willing to "stay home" as peace warrior suggested. I will continue to think freely and speak openly with certainty that a few do not control all that happens here.
Look up "respectful" and then look up "condescending" around here people can tell the difference.

I am sorry that somehow your parents and teachers haven't prepared you for the real world. All of that telling you "Yes you are special and your opinions matter to us. You don't have to have facts, or logic to back it up. Your feelings are just as real and valuable" did not prepare well for life, where convincing others of something takes more than just saying "But I feel strongly about it". Maybe that worked on Mommy, but it doesn't work so well on the rest of the world.
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:21   #230
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Look up "respectful" and then look up "condescending" around here people can tell the difference.

I am sorry that somehow your parents and teachers haven't prepared you for the real world. All of that telling you "Yes you are special and your opinions matter to us. You don't have to have facts, or logic to back it up. Your feelings are just as real and valuable" did not prepare well for life, where convincing others of something takes more than just saying "But I feel strongly about it". Maybe that worked on Mommy, but it doesn't work so well on the rest of the world.
This post is almost childlike in its lack of substance. You foolishly resort to using some pseudo-psychological babble about how I was raised to explain why I refuse to swallow your empty chatter.

It is you who can't support your arguments about most topics of substance. At least when I can't successfully make an argument I'm man enough to say 'I can't make it stick'.

As for my bringin' up, it was a small town existence where we pretty much got through most days on our own. We hunted, fished and smoked dried corn silk for recreation. When we walked in for 'supper' my mother knew I was ok. I worked my way through college by earning every cent for tuition, books, and all expenses, so it took more than four years. If you want to compare notes on career successes, I'll be happy to oblige; I assure you there were no gimmes during those 40 plus years.

If you're going to attack me, its gonna require more horsepower than this feeble piece of foolishness.

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Old 03-26-2013, 15:36   #231
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You go girl!
This really shows the limit of your intellectual capacity, son. Where did this brilliant debate tactic come from? Something you saw in a Disney movie?
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:51   #232
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Well, first post I've made here (might look like I'm a new gun owner - and I am, but I've grown up around guns my whole life and been lurking here for a while now).

Two things really scare me:
1) People are buying up guns just because of the current political climate (not necessarily because they have made the choice that they would like one for any reason other than that).
and 2) It has been extremely difficult to actually find ammo to practice with. So now we have a ton of new gun owners, who cannot afford or find ammo to practice but will still continue to carry and handle firearms with a much lesser understanding of how dangerous they can really be. In other words, the learning curve has gotten longer. I did not start carrying my G19 (got it right before all of this nonsense) until I knew a lot about how it works, how to properly conceal, and how to shoot it effectively after taking classes on stress shooting.

Over half of the people I see at the range now look extremely inexperienced, but even worse, they do not seem interested in learning and improving their understanding and effectiveness with a firearm.
Excellent post! These are the same people I see at the range. I saw a man and woman come out of the range while I was going in, both of them had bloody knuckles on their right thumbs. I'm betting that wasn't a productive range outing. I kept thinking, "Why didn't someone step in and show them the proper way to hold a handgun?"
I'm not going to say i'm an expert or world class shooter. Uncle Sam showed me back in 1986 hold to properly handle a rifle and a handgun and I consider myself an above average shot. That said, I will pass on what I can to those that will need it and want it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:55   #233
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
This is so typical of crap posted by the GT Mafia (you'll have fun with this term) when someone insists on swimming upstream against the 'popular wisdom'. This post is almost childlike in its lack of substance. You foolishly resort to using some pseudo-psychological babble about how I was raised to explain why I refuse to swallow your empty chatter.

It is you who can't support your arguments about most topics of substance. At least when I can't successfully make an argument I'm man enough to say 'I can't make it stick'.

As for my bringin' up, it was a small town existence where we pretty much got through most days on our own. We hunted, fished and smoked dried corn silk for recreation. When we walked in for 'supper' my mother knew I was ok. I worked my way through college by earning every cent for tuition, books, and all expenses, so it took more than four years. If you want to compare notes on career successes, I'll be happy to oblige; I assure you there were no gimmes during those 40 plus years.

If you're going to attack me, its gonna require more horsepower than this feeble piece of foolishness.
Believe me manchild, that wasn't an attack.

Funny, it was in response to my post that you admitted you had no basis for you ideas, now you are saying

"It is you who can't support your arguments about most topics of substance. At least when I can't successfully make an argument I'm man enough to say 'I can't make it stick'."




So why don't you just finish your tantrum by calling everyone else "A bunch of mean old poopy-heads" and run along and play?
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Old 03-26-2013, 15:59   #234
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This is so typical of crap posted by the GT Mafia (you'll have fun with this term) when someone insists on swimming upstream against the 'popular wisdom'. This post is almost childlike in its lack of substance. You foolishly resort to using some pseudo-psychological babble about how I was raised to explain why I refuse to swallow your empty chatter.

It is you who can't support your arguments about most topics of substance. At least when I can't successfully make an argument I'm man enough to say 'I can't make it stick'.

As for my bringin' up, it was a small town existence where we pretty much got through most days on our own. We hunted, fished and smoked dried corn silk for recreation. When we walked in for 'supper' my mother knew I was ok. I worked my way through college by earning every cent for tuition, books, and all expenses, so it took more than four years. If you want to compare notes on career successes, I'll be happy to oblige; I assure you there were no gimmes during those 40 plus years.

If you're going to attack me, its gonna require more horsepower than this feeble piece of foolishness.
You ceded the point yet continue to engage in the trifling drama and complain about that.

Move on, it's only the internet.

Just a thought............
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Old 03-26-2013, 17:01   #235
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You ceded the point yet continue to engage in the trifling drama and complain about that.

Move on, it's only the internet.

Just a thought............
Excellent idea.
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Old 03-26-2013, 17:04   #236
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This really shows the limit of your intellectual capacity, son. Where did this brilliant debate tactic come from? Something you saw in a Disney movie?
The perp he beat the crap out of on the side of the road, then arrested. Why do you ask?
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Old 03-26-2013, 17:07   #237
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Probably makes it harder for the instructor to teach with the language barrier. I didn't see anywhere in that post where he said they shouldn't have the gun because they couldn't speak English.
Not only have we trained shooters with whom we did not speak a common language, we have trained such folks as instructors. Firearms instruction is a participant activity. You show them and them they show you. A common language makes it easier, but positive, helpful attitudes are more crucial.
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Old 03-26-2013, 17:30   #238
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Probably makes it harder for the instructor to teach with the language barrier. I didn't see anywhere in that post where he said they shouldn't have the gun because they couldn't speak English.
Not only have we trained shooters with whom we did not speak a common language, we have trained such folks as instructors. Firearms instruction is a participant activity. You show them and them they show you. A common language makes it easier, but positive, helpful attitudes are more crucial.
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Old 03-26-2013, 18:11   #239
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I understand that. But that doesn't squelch my concerns when I find out that my son in law gets home from work and throws his compact nine on the kitchen counter as he heads for the shower. I have a six year old grandson, and his injury would crush me.

I bought him a small safe, and understand that he's using it, but how many more little kids may be at risk? Or is that, too, "Not my problem?"

I fear, sooner or later, it will be all of our problem.
No, it's not your problem. Help who you can. But drop the Christ complex, you can't save all sinners. People do have a responsibility to get proper training and learn firearms safety and responsibility, especially when it pertains to innocent children. But if you're going to take that tact, then you need to be preaching to drunks in bars, before they get in their cars, carpenters who are less than careful where they point their nail guns, form a one man search team, and inspect every household in your town, with chemicals stored under sinks and in cabinets that can harm children and pets, do fire and smoke alarm checks, etc. etc... I think your heart is in the right place but your responsibility ends at a certain point, and someone else's begins.
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Old 03-26-2013, 18:16   #240
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No, it's not your problem. Help who you can. But drop the Christ complex.....
J.

Christ complex?

Concern for my grandson's safety is a Christ complex?

Yeah........thanks for the advice. Now grow the hell up.
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Old 03-26-2013, 19:00   #241
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Yeah I agree totally. Not that I'm an 'vet' or a cop & I didn't grow up around guns. I am 5 or so yrs doing this. I am very serious & don't play around. As are most of you. It annoys me the level of ignorance or lack of safety that some people have. Just because you can buy it doesn't mean you're proficient or should even have it. I know, I know. Freedom & God given right aside. Hell we all know plenty of LEO's that couldn't find they're way out of a broom closet! With classes & instruction available to everyone today, some people buy a gun, pass the BS qual to get a CWP & off they go! Huh? I work with quite a few of these yahoo's. It's scary. I had one guy bring a gun on property, show it off, then muzzle sweep me 3 x's! No clue. I asked him to please not do that again. He replies "oh, it's not even loaded." Really? Turns out IT WAS! How do not know the condition of your firearm?
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Old 03-26-2013, 19:43   #242
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Christ complex?

Concern for my grandson's safety is a Christ complex?

Yeah........thanks for the advice. Now grow the hell up.
Dude, maybe your intellect needs a little maturing. If you read the thread in it's context, all I was saying was that you can't be responsible for all gun owners. Neither can I or anyone else. Some folks will have to put the onus of responsibility upon themselves. In the case of your grandson, it would be quite simple for you to approach those around them, educate them, warn them or whatever it takes to keep the child safe. But the tone of your post was more like you're worried about the "world". By Christ complex, I meant, and if your not able to comprehend, I'll explain. You can only do so much, you can't save the world, just concentrate on your part of it. New guns come with plenty of warnings about firearm safety. If your grandson's father knows firearm safety and still tosses his loaded weapon in proximity of his unattended child, then he deserves to have child services called, and either the child or the weapon removed. Your rabid response indicates that there may be similarities in personalities that need to be addressed. Now, if your capable, and refuse to be obtuse, re-read the thread, and you'll see what I mean...maybe.

J.
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Old 03-26-2013, 19:48   #243
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Paragraphs.

One of the first things you learn in grownup writing class is how to phrase a paragraph.

After you accomplish that, your post may hold some level of coherent thought
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Old 03-26-2013, 19:51   #244
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Yeah I agree totally. Not that I'm an 'vet' or a cop & I didn't grow up around guns. I am 5 or so yrs doing this. I am very serious & don't play around. As are most of you. It annoys me the level of ignorance or lack of safety that some people have. Just because you can buy it doesn't mean you're proficient or should even have it. I know, I know. Freedom & God given right aside. Hell we all know plenty of LEO's that couldn't find they're way out of a broom closet! With classes & instruction available to everyone today, some people buy a gun, pass the BS qual to get a CWP & off they go! Huh? I work with quite a few of these yahoo's. It's scary. I had one guy bring a gun on property, show it off, then muzzle sweep me 3 x's! No clue. I asked him to please not do that again. He replies "oh, it's not even loaded." Really? Turns out IT WAS! How do not know the condition of your firearm?
C.J., I'm a retired Vet. Even in the military you have Dumb A's, that you must train and retrain. Part of the reason that you hear of a vet of some service having to perform a task a hundred or even a thousand times, until it becomes either ingrained in their brain, or muscle memory. In the case of the dufus that swept you with his muzzle, and whose retort was "it's not loaded", I think that you might have educated him on the spot, or demand that he put his weapon away, or, if absolutely necessary, request that he never present a weapon in your presence again. Even if it costs you a friend, it may save you a body part, or your life, when the difference is measured in milliseconds.

J.
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Old 03-26-2013, 20:52   #245
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This really shows the limit of your intellectual capacity, son. Where did this brilliant debate tactic come from? Something you saw in a Disney movie?
The trolls taught it to me.
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Old 03-26-2013, 20:56   #246
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The perp he beat the crap out of on the side of the road, then arrested. Why do you ask?
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Old 03-27-2013, 00:08   #247
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Additionally, if we didn't have folks constantly trying to hide all things gun related from people and especially kids and instead focused on education it would lead to even higher safety. Instead too many think brainwashing folks into thinking gun = bad somehow makes people safer.

IMHO basic firearm safety should be taught in public high schools (not just the NRA Eddie Eagle program which is a great program but only for elementary aged kids and only in select areas)
I agree 1000%
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Old 03-27-2013, 00:35   #248
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You have just proven yourself to be un-teachable and basically a troll, you go on to use the same insult in another post showing that you cannot accept, or perhaps grasp that you are in the wrong. While your insults to people who disagree with you are semi-polite, they are what they are nonetheless.


While you have claimed great respect for the Constitution, you have shown little knowledge of its root. You have claimed to love freedom and to understand responsibility yet you want Government regulation to deprive others of their freedom and to take responsibility for your safety.

It is obvious the way you are clinging to your idea that you think the solution to all problems is the application of more laws. It cannot be limited to this one topic. I can only imagine some poor freedom that you don't like others to have if it doesn't have a specific Amendment of its own.

You attempted to present your proposal in an innocent "why not?" manner as if it were open to discussion that you wanted to learn from, but your defensiveness about it shows that was an act, a ruse and a fašade. One might even suspect that you are testing "the conservative gun owners" positions for some other purpose.

I seem to recall you as being an Obama supporter in the threads pertaining to the election.

Curious.

Well stated.

When you noted that you recall that photofeller was "an Obama supporter in the threads pertaining to the election," I thought, doesn't that fit him to a T.

RJ

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Old 03-27-2013, 01:36   #249
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Who implied that watching videos was "all it takes?"

Educating one's self is never a bad thing btw, and factual & informational video is a great format to learn from.
The poster I am discussing suggested that he/she was more prepared and not one of those new gun owners and was concerned because those people had no training but he watched videos. My implication is that if all it takes is watching youtube videos, then everyone can be an expert after watching some videos. I am sure someone would be more than capable after watching some videos of someone else shooting a gun, as the poster in question mentioned Hikock45. I must be an expert MMA fighter since I have watched quite a few hours of fights and watched numerous youtube videos.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:07   #250
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But you never explained what gives the gub'mint the right to determine who is and who isn't crazy? And which doctor is right and which one is misdiagnosing him?
That's because I never said he was deemed by the "gub'mint" to be unstable...I listened to his lies, his made up stories and figured it out on my own. Don't twist my words into something you want to use to make an example. I'm not easily tripped up by people who try to bait me.
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