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Old 03-24-2013, 09:39   #76
Colorado4Wheel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
I got word this am that I could get a brand new LNL ap for about the price of the SDB.. That changes things a bit for me, might have made my decision..
No dies, no low primer alarm, no shellplate.

Dillons come with one complete caliber conversion. Which means shellplate etc (no dies). SDB comes with dies. LnL is a little cheaper but not by a lot when you really look at it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:53   #77
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If you want a cheap progressive, that will at times frustrate you, but still make a decent volume, get a Pro1000. Either get a Pro 1000 or a Dillon. The P1000 is cheap but imperfect, the Dillon is expensive but near perfect. Everything else is just expensive and imperfect, the worst of both worlds.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:19   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
No dies, no low primer alarm, no shellplate.

Dillons come with one complete caliber conversion. Which means shellplate etc (no dies). SDB comes with dies. LnL is a little cheaper but not by a lot when you really look at it.
All things I'm going to spend today pricing out, but at $405 this is hard to pass up..

Quote:
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If you want a cheap progressive, that will at times frustrate you, but still make a decent volume, get a Pro1000. Either get a Pro 1000 or a Dillon. The P1000 is cheap but imperfect, the Dillon is expensive but near perfect. Everything else is just expensive and imperfect, the worst of both worlds.
You all are probably very correct, but at such a low price point, it's pretty likely that if it's really a total piece of garbage I can probably get my money back out of it.

It should be noted that I have my LCT running flawlessly, so tinkering and fine tuning isn't something that really bothers me..

Again, not trying to argue with you all, but I might not be able to pass up this deal.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:31   #79
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Reloading
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:38   #80
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Reloading
Lol, I probably deserve that..

But really, $300 *IS* a lot of money.. Even buying the shellplate and PTX (which according to my research is all I need along with my dies in order to start loading) I'm still at $240 less than the 650..

Tough choices man.. tough choices.

I've ruled out the 550 though, I think.. From this thread and others it seems that there is a limit to what the 550 can do. I'm not buying a bullet and case feeder now, but I probably will someday. These items (I'm told) are "afterthoughts" for the 550..

Oh well, spending today doing some more research, I'll keep you all posted
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:48   #81
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All things I'm going to spend today pricing out, but at $405 this is hard to pass up..
$405 for what?

Dillon 550 is $439 with out dies. Lee dies (which I prefer) are $40. At the most we are talking $75. It's probably only a $35. Once you add the primer alarm that Hornandy doesn't give you or a good PTX setup (also not inculded with the LnL). The LnL will nickle and dime you with the little stuff that you very well may later buy. This is a lifetime purchase not a pizza.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:50   #82
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Just read your above post. LnL casefeeder sucks. You have been warned. Everyone thinks they need one. 95% don't. You can sell the 550 later and get the 650 or use the 550 for other things. Your about to make a bad choice for the wrong reason. Don't forget the LnL casefeeder is way more expensive then the Dillon. They are near the same price once you figure that in.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:02   #83
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Then there is the current problem with actually buying anything. If a press is available, it might be worth buying it with the idea of upgrading later.

The thing about presses is that they tend to grow like rabbits. I have never sold any so I have 15 of the things (including shotgun loaders). Some I will never use again but they're still mine. All mine!

Richard
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Old 03-24-2013, 14:25   #84
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I hadn't realized just how much TALLER the 650 with strong mount is over the SDB.
This silly thing is TALL. Now... if I only had dies.
I had all the dimensions. I should have made a cardboard cutout or something to compare! I think I'm gonna like it, though.

Reloading
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Old 03-24-2013, 19:07   #85
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Everyone likes the 650. Heck even whiskey likes the 650. The only problem with the 650 is how fast it goes through supplies.
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Old 03-24-2013, 23:24   #86
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LCT is not hard at all to get running right. Now a LNL with a casefeeder in 9mm. That is a challenge.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:47   #87
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While I wouldn't compare a LCT with any progressive press, it is likely the best value in reloading today.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:06   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanm View Post
I hadn't realized just how much TALLER the 650 with strong mount is over the SDB.
This silly thing is TALL. Now... if I only had dies.
I had all the dimensions. I should have made a cardboard cutout or something to compare! I think I'm gonna like it, though.
]
DOn't use the SM, height is reduced. You can also shorten the case feeder post & tube a couple inches, does make a diff if you are shorter & like to reach the case feeder bowl.
Really, this whole cost thing is just not well thought out. A 650 with everything is $1200 on the high end, $5/m over 20yrs of reloading. A crappy Lee, $400 or $1.70/m. So for $3.30/m you want to be swap 300rds per hour for 700rds/hr+? I don't get the math. $400 is not a lot of money compared to what you pay for ammo today, it's actually a drop in the bucket. So I wish people would stop agonizing over buying something that will last them longer than any other piece of equip they would buy. Longer than a refrig, washer/drier or sim appliance that would cost about the same amount. I would not buy a tool because it was cheap but because it does the job I want it to do with as little fuss as possible. As always, your decision, but you have been given a lot of good info to make it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:08   #89
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DOn't use the SM, height is reduced. You can also shorten the case feeder post & tube a couple inches, does make a diff if you are shorter & like to reach the case feeder bowl.
Really, this whole cost thing is just not well thought out. A 650 with everything is $1200 on the high end, $5/m over 20yrs of reloading. A crappy Lee, $400 or $1.70/m. So for $3.30/m you want to be swap 300rds per hour for 700rds/hr+? I don't get the math. $400 is not a lot of money compared to what you pay for ammo today, it's actually a drop in the bucket. So I wish people would stop agonizing over buying something that will last them longer than any other piece of equip they would buy. Longer than a refrig, washer/drier or sim appliance that would cost about the same amount. I would not buy a tool because it was cheap but because it does the job I want it to do with as little fuss as possible. As always, your decision, but you have been given a lot of good info to make it.
He is trying to save $75.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:36   #90
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Penny-wise, pound foolish. Happens all the time...

Good luck! Hope the LNL works out as well as you think it well...
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:42   #91
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Holy crap you guys are a condescending bunch eh?

Sorry I asked.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:45   #92
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nevermind.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.

Last edited by FiremanMike; 03-25-2013 at 12:46..
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Old 03-25-2013, 13:19   #93
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You asked. If you ask a question, don't blame us if you don't like the advice. The advice is given with personal experience and consideration of the information you provided. Many of us have been down the exact path you are going down. I know I have personally. Trying to save you from yourself. I used the same excuses you are using to justify the LnL. People on this forum did the same to me as we are now doing to you. When things went bad I got a couple "told you so's". I took it in stride. It was my own damn fault for trying to be cheap and getting sucked into wanting something different.
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Old 03-25-2013, 15:41   #94
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Holy crap you guys are a condescending bunch eh?

Sorry I asked.
We're trying to help. Many here have been down this road before. To be mature and wise says we listen to those who have gone before us...

I promise, if you look hard enough, you'll find your "research" about issues with the LNL and owners, like CO4W that have replaced them with Dillons.

You've received invaluable, first-hand advice. It's now up to you. As I already said, you are the one that has to live with your decision. Good luck! It's not the end of the world, after all, it's just a reloading press...
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Old 03-25-2013, 17:53   #95
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Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
Holy crap you guys are a condescending bunch eh?

Sorry I asked.
No one is being condescending, but when you are getting really good info & blowing it off, or worse yet trying to argue what you do not know, well, some folks are just hard headed. So take it or leave it but no one is personalizing this but you.
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Old 03-25-2013, 18:25   #96
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If anyone owes me a kickback its Lee for all the LCT's I have helped sell.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:45   #97
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I bought the lnl over the 650 because of the difference in the cost of conversions. Ended up returning it. Ate the cost of shipping both ways and ended up with the 650. If you are going to buy a case feeder buy the 650. If you are sure you don't want a case feeder then you have a lot more choices.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:08   #98
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Quote:
Holy crap you guys are a condescending bunch eh?

Sorry I asked.
You have guys that own or have owned all of the presses your asking about and we are giving you our opinion based off of experience.

In the end, its your decision but if you don't want an honest answer simply don't ask the question.

No one knows how many rounds you'll be loading or how much time and money you have.

I can tell you back when I paid $500 for a car $240 was a lot of money. Now $240 is just two tanks of fuel for my truck. So you couldn't pay me $240 to load my ammo on a POS press.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:15   #99
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I can tell you back when I paid $500 for a car $240 was a lot of money. Now $240 is just two tanks of fuel for my truck. So you couldn't pay me $240 to load my ammo on a POS press.
Exactly! The way we are going, 20yrs from now, the 650 you buy today for $1000 will cost $2000+. The years of nearly effortless reloading is enough reason to buy one. The fact you can sell it 20yrs from now & get all your money back plus is a bonus. I bought my first progressive 25yrs ago, a 550 for $260. Upgraded for free to a 550B & sold it to a buddy 2 yrs ago for, yep $260. He was happy, I got a new 650 to go with my newer 550B, I never regret spending good money of good tools. If you value your time at all, buy better gear, you'll be $$ ahead in no time. Loading ammo on ym 650 is like paying myself $120/hr!
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:24   #100
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The real question is "What do you NEED to make the right amount of ammo in the time allotted" Everyone always wants to get the fastest, most attractive, feature laden press for their money. Reality for me is all that "stuff" doesn't matter in the end. All I do is walk up to the press and start pulling the handle. What matters to me the most is this situation...

12 hours before a match or range session I need 300rds. Will I easily be able to make that ammo or will it be a pita and make me want to dread the experience.

If I own a LCT I know I need at least 1.5 hours to get it done. That is just too long for me.
If I own a 550 or LnL (no case feeder) it will take me 30 mins to get it done. That is going at a safe slower pace for me.
If I own a 650 (with casefeeder) it will take me about 18 mins.
If I own a LnL with a case feeder it would take me about 25 mins but it will be a hassle and annoying.

That is assuming the LnL even makes ammo that works. Mine was fine with Federal primers but would not work 100% with CCI. 99% is just not good enough.

Notice the times for the 550/LnL with no case feeder and LnL with case feeder are nearly the same. Going quick I could load 100 rds in 8 mins on my 550 (no casefeeder). Fastest time for my LnL with a Casefeeder was a little under 7 mins. But it was normally a little under 8 mins. Hardly a vast improvement over my uber simple and reliable 550.
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