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Old 03-31-2014, 18:20   #1
Teecher45
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The caliber debate may be over...

at least at my house.
My wife and I talk a lot about things that interest us, but not necessarily each other. A lot of times I will share stories from glocktalk that I think are funny. Today we dropped by Walmart to pick up a few things and a box of ammo. We were looking at the different types of ammo and she noticed the price difference between the 9, 40, and 45. It's now back to approx. $5-6 a box.
On the way home (to the range) she asked why we didn't shoot more 9mm. We have a 92F but she doesn't like it as much as the Glocks. We have Glocks in .40 and .45 and she shoots them fine but she told me today she enjoys shooting the 9 more and wished we had a glock in 9 because she would probably shoot more. And then my two oldest sons agreed. So we stopped by a LGS and played with a 26 and a 19. They all really liked the size and feel of the 19.
And then she said, "with the price difference wouldn't you get to shoot more with 9mm?" We have a budget.
I was a little taken back, she shoots with me from time to time, but she's not really a gun person. I explained how I liked the benefits of the larger calibers if I needed to use it for SD.
And then the bomb, she said "statistically, what's the chances of ever really using it to do anything other than shoot at the range?" I don't know the answer to that question, does any of you?..
We live in a farming community where everyone knows and helps one another. I would say the chances of ever using a pistol in SD is low. But that's dangerous thinking. But again, cheaper ammo does give me more opportunity to train. Good trade-off?
What's the brain trust think?
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Old 03-31-2014, 18:31   #2
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Your wife wanted to buy a new 19 and you balked because the boowets aren't big enough? Shame shame. Man card in jeopardy. Get back to the lgs and buy. Or maybe let your wife handle the firearm purchases from now on
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Old 03-31-2014, 18:58   #3
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Is better to have a gun and not need it, then not have a gun and need it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:02   #4
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Shes not wrong. Get the 9mm its cheaper to shoot and your wife and kid's want one so they'll shoot with you more. What's not to like. Get some 147 hst for SD. Seems simple to me but I'm a 9 fan
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:03   #5
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If you have a Glock .40, why not get a 9mm barrel and a few 9mm mags? Two calibers in one.
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:09   #6
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9mm is my favorite round, period. I generally shoot 9mm and 45ACP only.

I haven't shot 40S&W in over a year. I never cared for it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:36   #7
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sounds like she didn't actually say to get rid of the other guns, just get everyone a 9mm and let it go at that
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teecher45 View Post
..........

And then the bomb, she said "statistically, what's the chances of ever really using it to do anything other than shoot at the range?" I don't know the answer to that question, does any of you?..
We live in a farming community where everyone knows and helps one another. I would say the chances of ever using a pistol in SD is low. But that's dangerous thinking. But again, cheaper ammo does give me more opportunity to train. Good trade-off?
What's the brain trust think?
Your wife is a smart lady, sounds like a keeper.

I have no idea about the statistical possibility's of being involved in a SD shooting, but modern 9mm hollow points with good shot placement have proven to be quite effective.

Sounds like with the 9mm you and the whole family will get it more shooting & training, hard to beat that.
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:53   #9
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More experienced shooter with a 9 vs. Less experienced shooter with a 40.

I know which is better.
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Old 03-31-2014, 19:58   #10
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The likelihood of need a firearm is something I myself have contemplated about too. It's one of those things where you have to sit down and contemplate it for yourself. Generally I try and avoid places and situations where it's likely I'd need a gun. While that's not always possible, it's the best I can do until I can afford a CCW class, the permit fee, a gun belt, a holster, a spare magazine, a new pair of pants and some new shirts.
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Old 03-31-2014, 21:11   #11
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If you want the bigger caliber for carry and the cheapness of 9mm get a conversion barrel. A G23 conversion barrel will work in the 23 and 27. That way you can shoot 9, not spend money on a new gun, and still use the 40 for SD.
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Old 03-31-2014, 21:27   #12
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If you want the bigger caliber for carry and the cheapness of 9mm get a conversion barrel. A G23 conversion barrel will work in the 23 and 27. That way you can shoot 9, not spend money on a new gun, and still use the 40 for SD.
His wife is giving him the OK to get a new gun. Why would you not jump at the opportunity to get a spouse-approved gun?
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Old 03-31-2014, 22:23   #13
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Sorry, miscommunication on my part.
The only way I'm getting a 19 is to trade the 27 or the 21. And it won't be the 21.
I see the conversion side of it but I prefer to shoot my carry gun just like it would be carried, just personal preference.
I'm heavily leaning toward the 19 just because it seems like they are telling me they'll go with me more.
And the more shooting thing is awfully attractive also.
I've got a nice Theis IWB that I believe would allow me to CC okay, but not positive on that part.
Sway anyone's thinking?
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:56   #14
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I would not get rid of the 27 or 21 unless they throw brass at your head; additionally, if they were made before 2008 having a cast rather than MIM extractor is an additional plus (at least it is for me).

I would save up get the wife a Glock 19 if that was what she wanted.

My wife doesn't care for the feel of Glocks (too thick); her favorite pistol is a Kahr P9.
She is not into shooting like I am, so getting her to shoot is similar to getting me to rake leaves or go shopping for clothes.
I recently got a Kahr K40 and the recoil with 180 JHP wasn't bad at all (steel frame).
I know my wife doesn't want any more recoil than a +P out of the P9, but I persuaded her to shoot the K40. She didn't think the recoil was bad and liked the feel of the grip.
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Old 04-01-2014, 13:31   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave514 View Post
More experienced shooter with a 9 vs. Less experienced shooter with a 40.

I know which is better.
The only response to that is, "So what?

The shooter has the experience and skill that he has and changing from .40 to 9 won't make much difference to that. All that matters is whether a .40 or a 9 in the hands of a particular individual will stop someone shooting back sooner.

Personally I would keep the 40 and buy a 9. Then I could get more practice with the 9 and get the family to join in as well.

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Old 04-01-2014, 13:34   #16
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Here is what I think: http://thedesertsedge.wordpress.com/...they-all-suck/

(buy the 9.... variety is the spice of life)

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Old 04-01-2014, 13:43   #17
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The only response to that is, "So what?

The shooter has the experience and skill that he has and changing from .40 to 9 won't make much difference to that. All that matters is whether a .40 or a 9 in the hands of a particular individual will stop someone shooting back sooner.

Personally I would keep the 40 and buy a 9. Then I could get more practice with the 9 and get the family to join in as well.

English

Yeah, that's exactly what.

I thought my point was clearly the very thing you just said. If she thinks more shooting will happen with a 9....that's a good thing. Probably more of a good thing than having less power is a bad thing.

I guess that's not how you took my post or you are saying something different than I am understanding now.
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Old 04-01-2014, 17:45   #18
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And then the bomb, she said "statistically, what's the chances of ever really using it to do anything other than shoot at the range?" I don't know the answer to that question, does any of you?
I'll take a shot ( )….

The population of the US is ~314M. There are about 1M DGU's per year (BJS Statistics). That means that in any given year, you have about 0.32% chance of a DGU. Of course where you live, and who you associate with, will change your chances.

Of the DGU's, only about 8% (if I recall correctly) actually have shots fired at the assailant. So that takes your chances down to 0.025% in any given year. With an average US life expectancy of 80 years, and a typical legal age to own a handgun of 21, that leaves about 59 years for a probable "shots fired" DGU with a handgun. That brings the chances of firing shots in a DGU in an average American's lifetime to ~1.5% (1:67).

(Although that seems kinda high).
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Old 04-01-2014, 22:11   #19
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...Of course where you live, and who you associate with, will change your chances...




Stunning observation.




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Old 04-02-2014, 08:12   #20
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Update.
My 14 yo and I got up yesterday morning and headed to the LGS, as we were looking at the 19 he saw a 17 and asked to see it. He liked it so much better because of the size. He's 6' about 190 lbs. with big hands (and size 14 shoes). We debated for a little bit and left with the 17, I actually like it better too.
Took it to the car and cleaned it (yeah I had my small kit in the car) llubed then loaded it and stuck it in my Theis. Ran errands for a couple of hours and it wasn't bad. It seemed to carry fairly well. It's a little heavier than the 27, but not bad.
Going to the range today.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:45   #21
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Congratulations. Can't go wrong with a 17. I have a 17 that has become my wife's EDC (until our 42's arrive). It is a fantastic pistol. I like it better than the 19's at least as far as at the range.
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Old 04-02-2014, 13:25   #22
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Question:

Quote:
And then the bomb, she said "statistically, what's the chances of ever really using it to do anything other than shoot at the range?"
Answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis View Post
I'll take a shot ( )….

The population of the US is ~314M. There are about 1M DGU's per year (BJS Statistics). That means that in any given year, you have about 0.32% chance of a DGU. Of course where you live, and who you associate with, will change your chances.

Of the DGU's, only about 8% (if I recall correctly) actually have shots fired at the assailant. So that takes your chances down to 0.025% in any given year. With an average US life expectancy of 80 years, and a typical legal age to own a handgun of 21, that leaves about 59 years for a probable "shots fired" DGU with a handgun. That brings the chances of firing shots in a DGU in an average American's lifetime to ~1.5% (1:67).

(Although that seems kinda high).
Based upon your analysis the chance of ever using a handgun for self-defense stands at .32% in any given year. Whether shots are fired or not is immaterial. Just trying to make that point clear.
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Old 04-02-2014, 17:15   #23
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Yeah, that's exactly what.

I thought my point was clearly the very thing you just said. If she thinks more shooting will happen with a 9....that's a good thing. Probably more of a good thing than having less power is a bad thing.

I guess that's not how you took my post or you are saying something different than I am understanding now.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I get too used to people saying that shot placement is king as though that is a choice. Many people can't make those precise shots under pressure of fear and time and few people can. So it isn't a matter of choosing to shoot a 9mm and then automatically being able to make those near perfect placements.

I always advocate learning to shoot with nothing with more recoil than a 9mm. I think competence is achieved faster than way, but once that competence is gained it is worth moving to a .40S&W or 357SIG even if groups size at 25 yards is two inches bigger. Most of the time when you need to shoot for your life then range will be far closer and the difference in accuracy will be irrelevant.

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Old 04-03-2014, 22:30   #24
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Thanks guys, we went to the range today and shot 250 rounds. No problems of any sort. No BTF either. I like the gun, and like how it handles. I'm still a little more accurate with my 21 but that could be lots of factors. The family likes it really we'll also. They like the 17 the best, I'm still leaning toward the 21 but the 17 seems to be the easier of the two to CC. We'll find out tomorrow, heading out early to do some shopping, including some gun shops. Will be carrying all day, so it will give me a much better idea about CC'ing this thing.
Ammo related question; I will be on the lookout for 147 gr. HST's but not overly optimistic.
What do you guys think about Underwood's GD loads for SD? Boutique ammo a no no for SD?
Should I stick with factory loads?
Thanks again...
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Old 04-03-2014, 22:42   #25
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Good choice on the 17, I traded an XDM45 to a Gen4 17 a few months back and I really like how it shoots. Good ammo does pop up from time to time, just keep your eyes peeled for it.
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