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Old 03-16-2013, 20:50   #176
Red Stick
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Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
Buy a cougar? That's crazy. If he found a cougar, she might buy HIM a few nice things.



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Well played. Well played indeed.
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Old 03-16-2013, 20:55   #177
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remind her that in many states you must declare a dog such as a pitbull on your homeowners' insurance. Something about them being unpredictable dogs. More info here:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2092342AAliALH

http://saveabull.com/insurance-for-pit-bulls/

http://forum.freeadvice.com/life-ins...aw-165872.html

http://www.ehow.com/about_7264917_da...nce-texas.html
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Old 03-16-2013, 20:57   #178
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So... no difference in a lion straight off the plains of the Serengeti and a domestic house cat except for size?
Maybe to try and keep the comparison fair, the better way to phrase that might be "no difference between a third generation domesticated lion and one from the plains of Serengeti."
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:01   #179
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sounds as if you two are not meant to be for each other, move along.....what does not start out well usually does not end well.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:16   #180
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Find a new girlfriend.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:27   #181
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Get a new gf. If it was the opposite would you get rid of your dog?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:32   #182
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Maybe to try and keep the comparison fair, the better way to phrase that might be "no difference between a third generation domesticated lion and one from the plains of Serengeti."
Call me stupid but I don't get it. Domestication of animals is something that takes place over thousands of years. Every domestic dog breed recognized today is from lineage that has lived with and worked along side man for thousands if not tens of thousands of years.

Granted some animals can revert back to their pre domesticated state very easily and rapidly with no further reliance on humans. Hogs are a great example of this. Dogs are not. I have seen dogs that will pack up on their own and run the woods all day chasing deer and anything else they see then return home to their separate homes and human pack every evening.

A lion that is three generations in captivity is just that. I would think that is much to short of a time period for any domestication to be taking place.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:38   #183
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...

Granted some animals can revert back to their pre domesticated state very easily and rapidly with no further reliance on humans. .... Dogs are not. I have seen dogs that will pack up on their own and run the woods all day chasing deer and anything else they see then return home to their separate homes and human pack every evening.

....
When the dogs are chasing deer and anything else in packs, is that a learned behavior that is a product of generations of domestication or is there perhaps an instinctive component of that that may be genetic? Or like a wide variety of dogs sometime turn around in circles a few times before they lie down - almost as if they were matting down the grass. Or like a huge number of human beings if subjected to an extreme fright have an adrenalin dump that causes higher heart rates, tunnel vision, loss of fine motor skills, etc.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:47   #184
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Get a new gf. If it was the opposite would you get rid of your dog?
Actually, he already said he would get rid of his dog. His dog doesn't matter to him, apparently. His justification was that he'd make sure she had a good home, neglecting to acknowledge that the dog likely thinks she already has a good home. That's doesn't matter, though. She's just a dog.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:55   #185
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When the dogs are chasing deer and anything else in packs, is that a learned behavior that is a product of generations of domestication or is there perhaps an instinctive component of that that may be genetic?
Good question. I'm going to say some of each. Just about every job we have dogs do, hunting, retrieving, herding, etc, uses instincts still there from their wolf ancestors. Selective breeding has made different traits more dominant in particular breeds.

The types of dogs you will see in a pack like I'm speaking of are the same types you would see doing these jobs under human direction. Usually mixed breeds that look like their mostly large hounds. Or breeds historically known for being big game hunters, have seen some rottie mixes engaged in this type of activities.
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Old 03-16-2013, 21:57   #186
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My point is, is that no matter how long the species has been domesticated, there may be genetic instinctive component to some behavior, especially when the "fight or flight" response is invoked.
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:24   #187
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Quote:
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My point is, is that no matter how long the species has been domesticated, there may be genetic instinctive component to some behavior, especially when the "fight or flight" response is invoked.
I generally agree....you see dogs running the hillsides that ran away from home, were neglected, etc, and packed up with other dogs chasing deer, knocking over garbage cans etc... When all else fails, they will revert to their instincts.
Much of that goes away, too, when they are spayed/neutered and the prey drive is minimized. Almost the 90 percentile of vicious dog attacks involve 'intact' dogs- not fixed. Or police dogs.
That's why (contrary to the typical GNG BS "my cousin" stories) there's a strong chance there's neglect and/or severe irresponsibility involved the usual OMFG Pit Bull sories.
No shots, no vet care, no population control, neglect/abuse, the pit bulls by far get it the worse, and typical of human nature, we blame everything but ourselves.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:43   #188
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:52   #189
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cliffs: girlfriend for some reason has a pit bull, i will not have anything to do with it, she wont get rid of it... am i an ******* or what?
Yes. You may even be the guy my signature line was meant for.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:08   #190
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Back in the 1970s the fearmongers were focused on the Doberman Pinscher, these days it's the Pitt Bull. Same old bull**** IMO, they're just dogs.
It is not just the Pit Bull. I help rescue Rottweilers and Chesapeake Bay Retriever's .

The Rottweiler is demonised by people and the insurance companies.

I have always been amazed by the people who judge by the breed and not the dog.

To me, that is as bad as judging and entire race of people based on the actions of some.

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Old 03-17-2013, 06:28   #191
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My point is, is that no matter how long the species has been domesticated, there may be genetic instinctive component to some behavior, especially when the "fight or flight" response is invoked.
Completely agree. However the traits out dogs have, positive or negative, are there because we bred those traits to be more dominant in particular breeds. Bulldogs were originally cow catching dogs, hence the strong jaws, and I won't deny that in the past and still today they are a preferred breed for fighting. Some of those skills and mindsets are still in the dogs of today.

On the other hand, thinking about the time it took to go from wolf to modern dog, it's only in relatively recent time that we have developed the breeds of today. In many places of the world one or two thousand years ago all dogs, at least in a geographic region were the same.

I think we're on the same page. IMO any breed of dog can be a trustworthy ambassador of their breed when the owner takes the responsibility seriously.

I do strongly believe that APBTs get a bad rap simply because of the type of people that gravitate toward the breed. People that present an unsavory image of themselves and want their dogs to add to that. People that want the dog to live up to its current reputation.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:29   #192
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Buy a cougar? That's crazy. If he found a cougar, she might buy HIM a few nice things.



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That didn't even cross my mind when I posted that. I had a cougar when I was 23. She loved the big three inches. Most women can't take it that wide!
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:40   #193
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My point is, is that no matter how long the species has been domesticated, there may be genetic instinctive component to some behavior, especially when the "fight or flight" response is invoked.
This is very true. We have a little 9 lb green eyed patch tabby cat. Cutest cat I've ever seen so we brought her home. One day at the vet she went into fight or flight mode. She was unrecognizable. Drew blood and acted like a wild cat who didn't know us at all. After a few minutes she settled back down. Doc explained that our pets are dogs and cats by instinct first, then pets. When a 9 lb cat goes ballistic, it's manageable with band aides and maybe stitches. My uncle's little ankle biter dog was vicious as all heel. Big freakin' deal. When a 60 lb dog with jaws like heavy machinery goes ballistic, he can kill you every bit as violently as a 60 lb cat. That's the difference.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:26   #194
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Call the Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan. Heard he's going through a divorce.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:33   #195
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Agree...get it over with and break things off. If you want nothing to do with the dog and she has said she will not get rid of the dog (good for her)... It is what it is.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:35   #196
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its very sweet, but sketchy as hell. it will come up and be nice to me at times then bark and try to attack me 5 minutes later. it has been living in her bedroom her entire life, it barks and tries to attack everything. has attacked her parents dogs when she brought it home and is EXTREMELY protective of her (the girlfriend)

See, this is why people make themselves look like *********s on the internet...

You should have included that in your OP, it would have made you look less like a *********. Now it just looks like you are making stuff up to justify your position.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:51   #197
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Why would she want to be with someone that prejudiced and controlling?
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:06   #198
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:11   #199
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Did you even read how unpredictable the dog is?
How many dogs have you owned?
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:33   #200
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