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Old 04-05-2013, 09:56   #1
PVolk
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+P and +P+ 9mm and the G19c - newb questions

I'm a .40s&w guy giving my first 9mm a try. Most of what I know about 9mm ammo is what I've read yesterday and today. I'd like to eventually start carrying this gun but I first want to be confident on a good self defense JHP round.

Mid-weight bullet weight (124-127 gr.) seems to be the "least hated" if that means anything. It seems easy to find drawbacks for 115gr. and 147gr. I plan to pick up a few different types of JHP rounds to test out, but I'd like to have a short list narrowed down to a few specific options. For carry, I'm probably going to opt for mid-weight Gold Dot or Rangers.

Most of my concern is with +P and +P+ ammo. Do these loads cause excessive wear on any part of a Glock? Do these loads recoil noticably heavier than regular pressure loads? Is it beneficial to use high pressure loads for self defense rounds?
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:36   #2
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...Most of my concern is with +P and +P+ ammo. Do these loads cause excessive wear on any part of a Glock? Do these loads recoil noticably heavier than regular pressure loads? Is it beneficial to use high pressure loads for self defense rounds?

1. No

2. yes, but not tremendously

3. opinions vary.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:49   #3
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Read the FBI's handgun wounding effectiveness treatise to get an idea of what works and why then find a bullet to match.
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Old 04-05-2013, 13:27   #4
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Read the FBI's handgun wounding effectiveness treatise to get an idea of what works and why then find a bullet to match.
I have read the FBI HWE study, and they favor large caliber bullets that penetrate at least 12 inches into a felon's body. Like the old .45 230 gr FMJ RN. Or the .44 magnum, or the .40 S&W/10mm Auto. This FBI study definitely discriminates against the 9mmP.

This study got me wondering how well my WW 115gr JHP +P+ round penetrates. It is going 1400 FPS out the barrel of my G17.
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Old 04-05-2013, 13:52   #5
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IBest way to up the effectiveness of the weapon is to concentrate on the projectile. There are two particular types of slug which can make a substantial performance increase:

1. An all copper slug such as used in the cor bon loadings. Even down to a 9mm, an all copper slug will track straight after penetrating auto glass and will punch thru the metal in a car door better than just about any slug you can imagine.

2. The other would be the bullet the Parabellum was designed around originally...jacketed soft points. In a rifle these are basic hunting rounds to penetrate tougher animals than humans such as deer, bear and elk. They still have soft lead interior like the interior of a conventional hollow point round and are similarly jacketed but the nose is filled in with more soft lead. This allows the more diminuitive 9mm to penetrate more but still expand...only later. Better feeding in the gun and with the filled in nose less likely to clog with denim or leather on the targets exterior.

I do recall a conversation w a VA State trooper some years ago who related that before they switched to 357sig one perp at a traffic stop took 7-9 9mms at a traffic stop when they were soaked up by a heavy leather jacket.

The 9 does at times need lots of help with penetration and the two above choices help with that.

The same way hi test can make an engine run better, the same way a film camera takes better pics with hi quality film or a computer runs better with better software or operating system, any given weapon performs better with better ammo. The care and feeding are as important as the piece itself.
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Old 04-05-2013, 15:34   #6
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I have read the FBI HWE study, and they favor large caliber bullets that penetrate at least 12 inches into a felon's body. Like the old .45 230 gr FMJ RN. Or the .44 magnum, or the .40 S&W/10mm Auto. This FBI study definitely discriminates against the 9mmP.

This study got me wondering how well my WW 115gr JHP +P+ round penetrates. It is going 1400 FPS out the barrel of my G17.
Well, that write up is almost 25 years old. And while it contains pertinent information, there have been pretty tremendous improvements in all modern ammo, including 9mm.
I would like to see some more recent info on the subject.
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Old 04-05-2013, 16:21   #7
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Here are a couple of sites you might use if you haven't seen them:

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/
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Old 04-05-2013, 16:34   #8
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Read the FBI's handgun wounding effectiveness treatise to get an idea of what works and why then find a bullet to match.
Thanks for the link........
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Old 04-05-2013, 17:54   #9
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Well, that write up is almost 25 years old. And while it contains pertinent information, there have been pretty tremendous improvements in all modern ammo, including 9mm.
I would like to see some more recent info on the subject.
I did notice that the thesis was quite elderly, but isn't 9mmP +p and +p+ ammo just as old?
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Old 04-05-2013, 18:28   #10
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I have read the FBI HWE study, and they favor large caliber bullets that penetrate at least 12 inches into a felon's body. Like the old .45 230 gr FMJ RN. Or the .44 magnum, or the .40 S&W/10mm Auto. This FBI study definitely discriminates against the 9mmP.

This study got me wondering how well my WW 115gr JHP +P+ round penetrates. It is going 1400 FPS out the barrel of my G17.


Both Federal's and Winchester's 115JHP+P+ loads penetrate up to 10" (+\-) in ballistic gel. So does the 125JHP 357Mag load. Both these loads have been documented as being extremely effective on the streets as used by cops and citizens alike. But both the FBI and the jello junkies completely ignore these loads as if they never existed.
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Old 04-05-2013, 19:35   #11
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I picked up some ammo today. Going to the range tomorrow to see how it runs.

Blazer 124gr FMJ
Indepenence 115gr FMJ
Speer GD 124gr +P JHP
Ranger 127gr +P+ JHP
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:25   #12
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[/b]

Both Federal's and Winchester's 115JHP+P+ loads penetrate up to 10" (+\-) in ballistic gel. So does the 125JHP 357Mag load. Both these loads have been documented as being extremely effective on the streets as used by cops and citizens alike. But both the FBI and the jello junkies completely ignore these loads as if they never existed.
Thanks. I wonder if the gel testers had the bullet go through clothing layers first before entering the gel?
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Old 04-06-2013, 17:07   #13
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Thanks. I wonder if the gel testers had the bullet go through clothing layers first before entering the gel?
I believe the test(s) were with bare gel, but not positive.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:03   #14
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124gr +P is the most proven self-defense ammo according to Massad Ayoob. I would checkout the GATE self-defense forum on here. Make sure you run at least 50 bullets of the ammo you choose through your firearm so you know they are reliable. Your practice ammo should be the same grain as your self-defense ammo or close.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:51   #15
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This Glock gobbled up all ammo that I threw at it. I put about 200 rounds through it yesterday. I'm really surprised at how much less it recoils compared to a G23. And the +P rounds didn't recoil too much more than the standard pressure rounds either.

I'll be carrying it with the 124gr +P Gold Dots.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:53   #16
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This Glock gobbled up all ammo that I threw at it. I put about 200 rounds through it yesterday. I'm really surprised at how much less it recoils compared to a G23. And the +P rounds didn't recoil too much more than the standard pressure rounds either.

I'll be carrying it with the 124gr +P Gold Dots.
Great choice, I use the same in my G19 and the short barrel version in my G26
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:09   #17
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I did notice that the thesis was quite elderly, but isn't 9mmP +p and +p+ ammo just as old?
Probably.
I meant that bullet technology has improved a lot.
Most modern ammo (in 9mm) both penetrate more and expand more than bullets/ammo of yester-year.
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:16   #18
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This Glock gobbled up all ammo that I threw at it. I put about 200 rounds through it yesterday. I'm really surprised at how much less it recoils compared to a G23. And the +P rounds didn't recoil too much more than the standard pressure rounds either.

I'll be carrying it with the 124gr +P Gold Dots.
Although I carry the 147 grain ammunition, I have no problem with that choice you made. All else being equal, I might choose that particular round myself. For now, I will continue along with my Speer Gold Dot 147 grainers.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:31   #19
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Although I carry the 147 grain ammunition, I have no problem with that choice you made. All else being equal, I might choose that particular round myself. For now, I will continue along with my Speer Gold Dot 147 grainers.
I am thinking about using 147gr +P 9mm rounds in the NE Winters.
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