Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2013, 01:16   #1
VinnieD
Senior Member
 
VinnieD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,094
.357 load in a .38 case?

Just a simple question for those more in the know than I am about pressure ratings, and brass. All of my revolvers that shoot .38 special are .357 magnums. I have no .38spl only revolvers. I do however have a lot of .38 brass. It occurred to me that I could be getting better training by practicing with the same recoil I'd expect in a defensive situation.

Is there any reason that a .38 brass loaded with a powder load for .357 magnum and fired in a .357 magnum revolver would be unsafe? I personally think it should be fine, bu I've heard that some calibers of magnum brass have thicker walls than their lesser powered variants.

I suppose catastrophic failure isn't likely, but I think there might be the off chance of wrecking the brass, which would kill the value of reloading.
__________________
"Use more gun." -The Engineer- (Team Fortress 2)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
VinnieD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:33   #2
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Skeeter Skelton wrote about doing it decades ago and it IMO cause some unsafe ideas. First of all the thought of one of those bombs ending up in a light .38 would worry me too much to contemplate.

Secondly, Skeeter kind of got around that by crimping his loads in the GREASE groove of a SWC. thereby making it too long, hopefully, to fit in a .38 cylinder

BUT

By "loading out like that he gave a bigger combustion chamber than fully seating a bullet in a .38 case with a magnum charge, thereby alleviating a bit of the pressure issue.

In total, with modern brass I doubt you would "blow up" a .357 revolver of modern construction, and loaded "Out" I doubt it more, but it sure as H*** isn't something I would do.

BTWFYI there is a fine line between "wrecking the brass" and "wrecking the gun" with a magnum revolver. a wrecked revolver usually has a root in the brass "wrecking". Do you really think even considering that line to be "safe" ?
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 03:42   #3
Berto
woo woo
 
Berto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 29,915


Not a reloader, but I thought there was a formula of reduction to take in account the less case volume of the .38sp....but maybe that's what Countrygun just illustrated in reference to Skeeter.
You could just use .38/44 data, too.
__________________
The West is the Best.
Berto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 07:14   #4
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,878
The question I have is why do you think you need to practice with the same recoil as your defensive rounds? Most of the encounters occur between 1” to 21’. So your point of impact is not going to that much difference or none at all. The average shoots fired is 3 with the first one a miss. As for recoil in an O.S. situation you are not going to notice if you are shooting a .22 or a 500S&W.The biggest thing is recovery time. So in the long run you are better served by shooting the 38spl rounds developing shooting skills. Where you can shoot more and longer in a practice session without the possibility of developing a jerk. It is just in the long run better for you and the gun. Just some food for thought.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 07:18   #5
shotgunred
reloading nut
 
shotgunred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N W Washington
Posts: 7,616
Your basic premiss is flawed. You can't recreate the adrenaline dump and other factors or the real thing. Just practice with good accurate ammo. I seriously doubt your body will notice the difference if you ever need your self defense loads. In the mean time you won't be straining your gun and won't be putting unnecessary stress on your joints.
__________________
When dealing with Democrats, let us remember we are
not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with
creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudices
and motivated by pride and vanity.
shotgunred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:13   #6
Smoker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NE Kansas
Posts: 616
what they said ,,,, I wouldn't even consider it.... I've become attached to my fingers..
Some guys think they have to max out everything,,,, why???
Smoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:25   #7
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,654
Federal/ATK goes so far as to advertise ballistic-equivalent ammo for training and tactical so that officers/agents get the same feel and other cartridge traits. I think most agencies can't afford to worry about that today however, and purchase whatever is cheap for their training.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:35   #8
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Federal/ATK goes so far as to advertise ballistic-equivalent ammo for training and tactical so that officers/agents get the same feel and other cartridge traits. I think most agencies can't afford to worry about that today however, and purchase whatever is cheap for their training.
And there great training tactics has also killed agents. In a O.S. you do not notice or feel the recoil. So what is better practice shooting 25 rounds and shop because it is starting to hurt. Or 100 rds. of light recoil?
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:47   #9
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
And there great training tactics has also killed agents...
Friendly fire's a terrible thing, and plenty prevalent within LE and Mil.

My only near real life training is IDPA - all powderpuff loads.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:50   #10
Three-Five-Seven
Señor Mombo
 
Three-Five-Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Tucson
Posts: 3,297
When brass comes apart it can take parts of the gun with it. Don't ask me how I know this.
__________________
That I could be wrong is an eventuality that has not escaped me. I just painted the pictures as I saw them. I do not know how to do anything else. (Saint Elmer, 1955)
Three-Five-Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:02   #11
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Friendly fire's a terrible thing, and plenty prevalent within LE and Mil.

My only near real life training is IDPA - all powderpuff loads.
Does FBI and Miami ring a bell.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:44   #12
SDGlock23
Glockoholic
 
SDGlock23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of Forgetfulness
Posts: 7,666
I wouldn't do it myself. The 357 Mag has thicker (stronger) brass and even assuming the charge did fit in the 38 Spcl case you've just skyrocketed pressures because now you have less working space.
__________________
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
SDGlock23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:57   #13
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Friendly fire's a terrible thing, and plenty prevalent within LE and Mil.
I know all too well about friendly fire.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:46   #14
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,790
Blog Entries: 3
Loading a 357magnum load in 38sp brass will be waaaay over pressure. It's fine to max out the 38sp+P in a 357mag, but trying to force 38sp brass to perfrom @ mag pressures will have blown cases at some point. So limit your 38sp brass to +P max, no more. Buy 357mag brass for 357mag loads.
As to practiing as you play, I think there is a lot of pros in that & few cons. Shoot 38sp ammo exclusively then go have to fire full pwoer 357mags, it will affect your shooting, adrenaline dunm or not. There is a small adrenaline factor whenever you hear the buzzer in IDPA. There is a reason that many shoot minor loads & not full power, they are just easier to shoot well. So while it isn't a defining training factor, one should shoot their carry ammo a few times a eyar to be familiar with it. IF LEA & military train w/ full power ammo, why should you?
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:01   #15
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Most of marksmanship is about sight picture and trigger control. "Practicing Recoil" is sorta like practicing locking the barn after the horse gets out.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:04   #16
superhornet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 395
Be careful--you will put your eye out...
superhornet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:08   #17
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
The question I have is why do you think you need to practice with the same recoil as your defensive rounds? Most of the encounters occur between 1” to 21’. So your point of impact is not going to that much difference or none at all. The average shoots fired is 3 with the first one a miss. As for recoil in an O.S. situation you are not going to notice if you are shooting a .22 or a 500S&W.The biggest thing is recovery time. So in the long run you are better served by shooting the 38spl rounds developing shooting skills. Where you can shoot more and longer in a practice session without the possibility of developing a jerk. It is just in the long run better for you and the gun. Just some food for thought.

Your channeling Jack on some weird frequency ain't you? It got a lot less grumpy in the transmission.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:29   #18
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Your channeling Jack on some weird frequency ain't you? It got a lot less grumpy in the transmission.
Nope, have been saying that a long time before I ever heard of Jack. But speaking of Jack how is the old geezer doing? I guess I out to email him sometime since he doesn’t like us anymore.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:27   #19
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,790
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Most of marksmanship is about sight picture and trigger control. "Practicing Recoil" is sorta like practicing locking the barn after the horse gets out.
Sort of. The more exp shooters can go from 22lr to 44mag & not skip a beat, not so for novice shooters. You will NEVER learn recoil managament unless you actually shoot the heavier recoiling loads. Shoot a 22lr all day, perfect your skills & then you MUST shoot the heavier recoiling guns to learn recoil managment.
Shoot controlled pairs using a timer, you can see the diff in time vs accuracy. The less exp shooters will have either longer split times or poorer accuracy w/ heavier recoiling loads. Why we start noobs w/ 22lr & work up for best reults. We don't hand them a 40 w/ full power loads & expect them to shoot well right out of the gate.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 03-07-2013 at 12:28..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:37   #20
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
Nope, have been saying that a long time before I ever heard of Jack. But speaking of Jack how is the old geezer doing? I guess I out to email him sometime since he doesn’t like us anymore.
Talked to him briefly yesterday. He was sounding great for once. Working at a auction so we could only chat for a second. First time he didn't sound horrible in that last couple months of touching base with him.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,020
315 Members
705 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31