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Old 03-13-2013, 15:00   #81
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That sounds a bit like Massad Ayoob.
No, it's not Mas. I'm not going to identify him since I don't have his permission to refer to any conversations I might have with him.
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Old 03-13-2013, 16:07   #82
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That sounds a bit like Massad Ayoob.
Nah, Mas is a nice enough guy and he's quick to offer his insight, knowledge and opinion on most everything.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:02   #83
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Nah, Mas is a nice enough guy and he's quick to offer his insight, knowledge and opinion on most everything.
That's so very true.
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Old 03-14-2013, 23:33   #84
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I get a kick out of the idea if the military can train with a 1911 why can't the cops. First off when the military carried them they were poorly trained getting far less practice then modern LEO's. I was in the Air Force Security Police and we carried 38 specials with terrible ammo. I was jealous of the Army MP's until I found out they were not allowed to chamber a round when they carried due to so many accidental discharges. I thought that was bad until I ran into some Marine security at a radar base in the Philippines they were not allowed to have a magazine in the gun even while on duty. Also, there have been cases where officer got shot because under stress they squeezed the trigger instead of thumbing the safety. A lot of the lessons learned in police worked were payed for in blood and the "KISS Principal"still applies today. If it wasn't for Glock many departments would still be carrying revolvers point and squeeze the trigger. Simple works especially under stress.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:29   #85
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I get a kick out of the idea if the military can train with a 1911 why can't the cops. First off when the military carried them they were poorly trained getting far less practice then modern LEO's. I was in the Air Force Security Police and we carried 38 specials with terrible ammo. I was jealous of the Army MP's until I found out they were not allowed to chamber a round when they carried due to so many accidental discharges. I thought that was bad until I ran into some Marine security at a radar base in the Philippines they were not allowed to have a magazine in the gun even while on duty. Also, there have been cases where officer got shot because under stress they squeezed the trigger instead of thumbing the safety. A lot of the lessons learned in police worked were payed for in blood and the "KISS Principal"still applies today. If it wasn't for Glock many departments would still be carrying revolvers point and squeeze the trigger. Simple works especially under stress.
This is a truly informed post.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:49   #86
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The sad thing is, you guys run down the average cop as being incapable of flicking off a safety and then you wonder why the guy on patrol regards you pencil pushers with disdain.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
While you can train someone to flick the safety off under normal circumstances, what about while under pressure? I've seen guys shoot on a somewhat regular basis with a 1911, much more than the average police officer, to include many draws, reloads, etc. Take these guys to their first IPSC match, and more often than not, the adrenaline will kick up and they will miss the safety on at least one stage. Now compare that adrenaline rush to a OIS and the "potential" for that becomes much greater.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:06   #87
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I get a kick out of the idea if the military can train with a 1911 why can't the cops. First off when the military carried them they were poorly trained getting far less practice then modern LEO's. I was in the Air Force Security Police and we carried 38 specials with terrible ammo. I was jealous of the Army MP's until I found out they were not allowed to chamber a round when they carried due to so many accidental discharges. I thought that was bad until I ran into some Marine security at a radar base in the Philippines they were not allowed to have a magazine in the gun even while on duty. Also, there have been cases where officer got shot because under stress they squeezed the trigger instead of thumbing the safety. A lot of the lessons learned in police worked were payed for in blood and the "KISS Principal"still applies today. If it wasn't for Glock many departments would still be carrying revolvers point and squeeze the trigger. Simple works especially under stress.
+1 Well put.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:49   #88
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It is amusing to me how when the Glock came out, many people said "carrying a sidearm WITHOUT a manual safety is dangerous." A generation later, people are saying "carrying a sidearm WITH a manual safety is dangerous."

Please!
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:04   #89
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It is amusing to me how when the Glock came out, many people said "carrying a sidearm WITHOUT a manual safety is dangerous." A generation later, people are saying "carrying a sidearm WITH a manual safety is dangerous."

Please!
I still can't believe that the handgun ever became popular. Look at i's history . Take the Civil War as an example. Those people, for the most part, had to actually remember to COCK their pistols before they fired. How did they manage to do that After all, they certainly weren't s smart as us, they didn't even have any computers How did thy ever get round to killing each other with such a complicated problem?
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Old 03-15-2013, 15:32   #90
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How did thy ever get round to killing each other with such a complicated problem?
Mostly, they stabbed or beat each other to death, mostly.
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Old 03-15-2013, 15:34   #91
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This is a truly informed post.
Plenty of burned traffic stripes from the squeeze-cocker days
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Old 03-15-2013, 17:16   #92
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Plenty of burned traffic stripes from the squeeze-cocker days
Lol...
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Old 03-15-2013, 17:46   #93
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In defense of LEOs not carring a 1911.

Every Monday during daylight savings time, I have shot a NMC hardball match for the last 12 years. I think that makes me a 1911 shooter.

I also shoot a number of practical pistol matchs during the year (last year I shot just under 5 cases of 9mm). I personally find the Glock G34 easier to use in the matches. It is not that I can't shoot a 1911, it is that in a run a gun situation the G34 runs quicker and more efficiently for me than a 1911.

Hmmmm I don't think I remember a 1911 ever coming in high score at nationals.
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Old 03-15-2013, 17:55   #94
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I also shoot a sig p226 DAK in a few IDPA matches (40 cal). If I was a LEO and could select my service side arm....that would be my selection

You can notice from the barrel in the ejection port the pistol has ran a number of rounds thru it.

Never been a Leo nor trained as one. I have taken 3 combat course. Mostly because enjoy shooting

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Old 03-15-2013, 18:07   #95
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New grips and magwell with +2 mags can not be used in IDPA match

BTW the DAK is double action only. No safety
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:01   #96
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ULVER, ChiefWPD, I enjoyed your thoughts and comments.

I shoot many more rounds a year then the average LEO. I shoot in some matches with some LEOs and SWAT guys. Most of then shoot their service pistol and ammo. A number of then will pin your ears back least you bring your A game. Of course I was my age as an excuse when needed.

The Sig DAK is capable of gun fighting accuracy at 50 ft. I will certainly admit that your shoot slower at distance to keep the group together. If I thought my threat would be at 50 yds, I would carry a DA/SA or SA.

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:35   #97
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Hmmmm I don't think I remember a 1911 ever coming in high score at nationals.
Certainly you're old enough that you had your tongue in your cheek when you said that?

With most competitions (games) being geared towards mag capacity these days is it a surprise that the 1911 is at a disadvantage?

If the competition was geared with more points for precision...well.....

I would also point out that high cap SA/DA pistols have done quite well, and, after the first shot, you are essentially shooting a single action auto.
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Old 03-16-2013, 13:20   #98
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Originally Posted by ComeAndGetThem View Post
It is amusing to me how when the Glock came out, many people said "carrying a sidearm WITHOUT a manual safety is dangerous." A generation later, people are saying "carrying a sidearm WITH a manual safety is dangerous."

Please!
You got that right, sir!
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Old 03-16-2013, 15:01   #99
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Certainly you're old enough that you had your tongue in your cheek when you said that?

With most competitions (games) being geared towards mag capacity these days is it a surprise that the 1911 is at a disadvantage?

If the competition was geared with more points for precision...well.....

I would also point out that high cap SA/DA pistols have done quite well, and, after the first shot, you are essentially shooting a single action auto.
No Sir. This is a competition. The rules set power factors. The 1911 45 acp will NEVER hang with a 9mm and its rabbit poot power factor. The DA/SA does not seem to make the grade to the top. You can fix the Glock trigger so the SA have no advantage. Just no way that I see a 1911 single stack can drive fast enough to make up for the 10 + 1 glock drivers can run


http://www.idpa.com/blog/?tag=/2013-IDPA-Nationals

Sorry
Robert Vogel and his Glock G34 is a force.
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Old 03-16-2013, 15:07   #100
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No Sir. This is a competition. The rules set power factors. The 1911 45 acp will NEVER hang with a 9mm and its rabbit poot power factor. The DA/SA does not seem to make the grade to the top. You can fix the Glock trigger so the SA have no advantage. Just no way that I see a 1911 single stack can drive fast enough to make up for the 10 + 1 glock drivers can run


http://www.idpa.com/blog/?tag=/2013-IDPA-Nationals

Sorry
Robert Vogel and his Glock G34 is a force.
A can't wait until the "practical" shooters rediscover the old .22 short.
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