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Old 03-07-2013, 18:26   #126
Mrs.Cicero
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Wow.....just.....wow.

Marriage has been around FAR longer than any Christian faith group, so trying to say "it's a church thing" is incredibly arrogant. Staking a claim on something that existed before the Church? Really?

Marriage was a social and religious institution LONG before the gov't EVER got involved in it. Take a damn anthropolgy course if you don't believe me. I don't care, and I didn't specify, which church blesses anyone's marriage, and I said any religion or church that wants to perform marriage ceremonies for gays, polygamists, polyandrists, and men and their blow-up dolls is FINE WITH ME. I thought that was obvious in my post, but apparently not to you.

And then you come back to the pedophile thing, and that stupid, STUPID comment that so many people have used about "any person over the age of consent has the right to marry anyone of the opposite gender also over the age of consent."

The truth is stupid to you. I get that.

Pedophilia is NOT THE SAME! You said it yourself, the determining factor is CONSENT. A child cannot consent.

Nice how you skipped the polygamy/polyandry part. Everyone there is a mentally competent consenting adult. Do you just like to rant and throw mindless insults for kicks and giggles, or is it because you have no logical argument beyond "That's stuuuupid!"

Think about it this way, if you insist on using pedophilia as an excuse: Gay marriage is illegal at the federal level right now. That has remarkably stopped all pedophilia, right? That's the same stupid argument as holding up Chicago's gun ban to demonstrate how gun control works: Guns were illegal there for nearly 3 decades, and completely did away with firearms homicides, right?

Using your logic, we might as well not have any laws at all, because no law actually stops any crime from being committed. Give some thought to why laws actually exist.

The pure hypocrisy in some people between the gay marriage and gun rights issues is astonishing.

I'd say yours astounds me, too, but nothing surprises me anymore. I want the government's hands off my guns, and the government completely out of the marriage business. You want government involvement in marriage. How, precisely, would you like your gov't to define "assault weapon" again?
Response above, in red.
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Old 03-07-2013, 18:30   #127
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We need to provide for those unable to provide for themselves. Yes, there are some out there that are not just lazy. However, this should be done on a local level. It's not the Fed's job.

I support gay marriage. What I don't approve of is one group of people being given a benefit when others are not, i.e. bigger tax deductions for married couples. No reason for it. You're a person, you make money, you pay taxes.

I support people paying taxes. I support this being done as in a flat tax where EVERYONE pays. Tax code should not be used to provide favors for one group over another. See paragraph above.

I support the first amendment. Press should be fair but it should also be honest unlike the abberation we have now called the mainstream media.

Actually I think a lot of liberal philosophy makes sense, but only if done voluntarily. Unfortunately their methodology is you have to force or coerce people to do something they don't agree to "for their own good".

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Old 03-07-2013, 19:21   #128
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Just about the only thing I'm sympathetic to is the gay marriage thing. The government shouldn't even be involved in the "marriage business". I've never understood why there's tax breaks for being married and the like. Note:this is not me bashing marriage. I just don't see why the government ahould be involved in it
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Old 03-07-2013, 19:30   #129
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I support a Woman's Right to Choose (abortion).

I also support Gay Marraige (I'm Bisexual).

How can I tell someone that I'm against them marrying someone else, or that I'm against their right to terminate a pregnancy, then turn around and say "well, I support the right of everyone to have a gun"?

The idea is ludicrous.

Besides these two things, I'm pretty Conservative-minded for someone who grew up in a family of Bay-Area Hippies.
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Old 03-07-2013, 19:36   #130
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Gun control


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Old 03-07-2013, 21:00   #131
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Pretty much all the "social" issues. Let them gay, let them abort, let them weed. No reason for government to be involved in any of that stuff.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:19   #132
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Originally Posted by Short Cut View Post
I agree with helping the less fortunate. The blind, crippled, mentally unstable and poor etc..
And you should do it, with your money. Putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to do it is evil.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:32   #133
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Gay rights.
Women's right to choose.
Separation of church and state.
Decriminalization and in some cases legalization of drugs.

I have no desire or need to impose restrictive controls one someone's liberty as long as none of their behaviors or activities negatively affect my day-to-day life or directly costs me money or property.

IOWs, don't bother me or my **** and we'll be okay.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:45   #134
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We need to provide for those unable to provide for themselves. Yes, there are some out there that are not just lazy. However, this should be done on a local level...

Where in the Constitution is that outlined? It's not. That's why we're in the mess we have today. The country survived just fine until this failed experiment called the "Great Society" was hoisted upon us by LBJ.

You're right that it should be indeed done on a local level or even left to the states to decide for that matter.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:46   #135
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Where in the Constitution is that outlined? It's not. That's why we're in the mess we have today. The country survived just fine until this failed experiment called the "Great Society" was hoisted upon us by LBJ.

You're right that it should be indeed done on a local level or even left to the states to decide for that matter.
You are off by several decades. The stench of socialism in america started well before LBJ.
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Old 03-07-2013, 21:58   #136
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I'm surprised I'm so many pro choice folks on here. You want the right to defend yourself and your rights, but you are willing to let people take the most basic right of a person away. A child is a child at any age. Only 1% of abortions are from rape or incest. The rest are from accidents or just plain being irresponsible. Another person, the unborn child, should not have to die because of actions they had no control of. There are well over a million abortions a year.

Also Republicans are all for limited healthcare and help for those who honestly can't help themselves.

Gay marriage is a hard one. I really feel the govt is overeaching by making any marriage a legal issue.
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:03   #137
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Originally Posted by Jade Falcon View Post
How can I tell someone that I'm against them marrying someone else, or that I'm against their right to terminate a pregnancy, then turn around and say "well, I support the right of everyone to have a gun"?

.
There is a flaw in your argument. Gun rights don't infringe on others rights. Abortion does. The mothers right to choose is taking away the child's right to live. Which is the greater right?
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:33   #138
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Originally Posted by SoldMyHat View Post
There is a flaw in your argument. Gun rights don't infringe on others rights. Abortion does. The mothers right to choose is taking away the child's right to live. Which is the greater right?
I'm against abortion. However, the only thing that makes a glob of cells a child is religious beliefs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:34   #139
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Originally Posted by SoldMyHat View Post

Also Republicans are all for limited healthcare and help for those who honestly can't help themselves.
Whaaat?
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:37   #140
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You are off by several decades. The stench of socialism in america started well before LBJ.

Yes, of course. However, most Americans cannot be objective about FDR as they see only that we won WWII and not his heinous violations of the Constitution.

See United States v. Butler as well as Schechter v. United States.
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:45   #141
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Yes, of course. However, most Americans cannot be objective about FDR as they see only that we won WWII and not his heinous violations of the Constitution.

See United States v. Butler as well as Schechter v. United States.
Hell, they love much of it. Even "conservatives" defend Social Security.
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:52   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
I'm against abortion. However, the only thing that makes a glob of cells a child is religious beliefs.
Not only that but my religious beliefs allows for abortion (it does have limitations but abortion is permited in traditional Judaism)

My point being, get the government out of things that are religious in nature.
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Old 03-07-2013, 22:58   #143
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I'm against abortion. However, the only thing that makes a glob of cells a child is religious beliefs.
At conception the cell is a living organism. It grows into a full term baby. At no time in that process is it not the same living organism.

If you want to argue that it's not self sustainable life, then okay. But at that point you are in the same space as those who say abortions should be legal up to 18 months since the child left by itself can't live. Or that senile people would shrivle up and die without assistance so we can euthanize them too.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:04   #144
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There is a flaw in your argument. Gun rights don't infringe on others rights. Abortion does. The mothers right to choose is taking away the child's right to live. Which is the greater right?
Like I said earlier, I don't see how legally something that's not an individual can have individual rights. If it can't survive separate from the mother it doesn't have the ability to live, much less the right. It's part of a person who does have individual rights. The mother has rights, the fetus doesn't.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:08   #145
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Not only that but my religious beliefs allows for abortion (it does have limitations but abortion is permited in traditional Judaism)

My point being, get the government out of things that are religious in nature.
Yes. But. If a child is a person at conception, then taking its life is a crime. It is killed for actions of another person that it had no control over. That would not be acceptable with a person after birth.

I also believe that scientifically that it is a person at conception. Like I said in my last post, the cells are living organisms that grow into the full term baby and they are the same cells and DNA at conception as at birth.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:08   #146
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If you want to argue that it's not self sustainable life, then okay. But at that point you are in the same space as those who say abortions should be legal up to 18 months since the child left by itself can't live. Or that senile people would shrivle up and die without assistance so we can euthanize them too.
No, the issue is not self sustainable but separately sustainable from an actual individual.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:11   #147
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. If it can't survive separate from the mother it doesn't have the ability to live, much less the right. It's part of a person who does have individual rights. The mother has rights, the fetus doesn't.
And that's the same arguement used for euthenization and post term abortions. They can't live independently without outside assistance, so it's okay to kill them.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:12   #148
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I also believe that scientifically that it is a person at conception. Like I said in my last post, the cells are living organisms that grow into the full term baby and they are the same cells and DNA at conception as at birth.
It's genetically homo sapien. I don't think "person" is a scientific term.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:15   #149
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I'm against abortion. However, the only thing that makes a glob of cells a child is religious beliefs.
Once the DNA of the parents combine, that glob of cells has the genetic code of a human... individual and unique.
I've always been against abortion, even during my heathen days.
Religion plays no part at all. Some of us can have respect for life without religion.
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Old 03-07-2013, 23:15   #150
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And that's the same arguement used for euthenization and post term abortions. They can't live independently without outside assistance, so it's okay to kill them.
Nope, see above post. They can live separately from another individual and are individuals themselves.
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