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Old 03-07-2013, 13:10   #101
Taphius
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Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
I very much agree!! So sad to see all the support for murder and gay rights in this thread.
So more government regulation is A-OK when it follows along with your ideology.
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:15   #102
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Wow.....just.....wow.

Marriage has been around FAR longer than any Christian faith group, so trying to say "it's a church thing" is incredibly arrogant. Staking a claim on something that existed before the Church? Really?

And then you come back to the pedophile thing, and that stupid, STUPID comment that so many people have used about "any person over the age of consent has the right to marry anyone of the opposite gender also over the age of consent."

Pedophilia is NOT THE SAME! You said it yourself, the determining factor is CONSENT. A child cannot consent.

Think about it this way, if you insist on using pedophilia as an excuse: Gay marriage is illegal at the federal level right now. That has remarkably stopped all pedophilia, right? That's the same stupid argument as holding up Chicago's gun ban to demonstrate how gun control works: Guns were illegal there for nearly 3 decades, and completely did away with firearms homicides, right?



The pure hypocrisy in some people between the gay marriage and gun rights issues is astonishing.
You hit it out of the park. This type of hypocrisy drives me nuts.

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Old 03-07-2013, 13:31   #103
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:33   #104
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[quote=HollowHead;20066054

On a more serious note, as someone who spends a great deal of time in the wilderness public lands must remain sacrosanct, untouched and unexploited. [/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree. Once it's ruined, it's ruined. There's nothing wrong with leaving a little of our heritage unspoiled for future generations to enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Taphius View Post
So more government regulation is A-OK when it follows along with your ideology.
This is exactly why the so called religious right need to g.t.f.o. of legislation. I and many others don't need their morality shoved down our throats.

A big +1 to WarCry, too.
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:43   #105
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I support the idea of a full equivalent to marriage for gays. That is as it should be. I do not support use of the word marriage to describe it, though. The homosexual union is different than the heterosexual union. We ought to be clear about that in our policy.

Using specific terminology would eliminate the ambiguity. Equivalent treatment for all does not mean everyone is the same. Saying everyone is the same does not lead to equivalent treatment for all especially when its not true.
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:50   #106
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I support the idea of a full equivalent to marriage for gays. That is as it should be. I do not support use of the word marriage to describe it, though. The homosexual union is different than the heterosexual union. We ought to be clear about that in our policy.

Using specific terminology would eliminate the ambiguity. Equivalent treatment for all does not mean everyone is the same. Saying everyone is the same does not lead to equivalent treatment for all especially when its not true.
Separate but equal.

The championing cry of racist democrats in the Jim Crow era.

So, you certianly do agree with the Democrats!
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:57   #107
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I don't believe in same-sex marriage or abortion, but I believe it is a states rights and its citizens to vote on it. We had the same sex marriage vote in KY years ago and it didn't pass (60-40%) so in my opinion the people spoke.

I also believe that people have the right to worship whatever way they want. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Saviour but the ones who have talked about the rules you should abide by and if you don't your faith isn't good enough, that's one of the reasons Christians get such a bad rap. John 3:16 is all you need to know. Respect people for who they are no matter what differences they have. Believe me when I say I've been challenged by a very liberal, atheist friend of mine from San Diego who at least has shown me the respect I would want.

I'm growing every day for the cause of Liberty.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:02   #108
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Originally Posted by og23 View Post
Gay marriage, pro choice, separation of church and state. I think religion should not be a factor in any laws and freedom includes choices too.


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I'm with the pro choice and don't really care about the gay marriage, but separation of church and state is NOT a liberal idea. It was a conservative idea popular with everybody from the founders (it is Thomas Jefferson's phrase, after all) to the churches, up until at least the later 19th century. Somewhere at home I even have an original 1880's or 90's church tract about how religion should never be mixed with government, titled "Oil and Water." I believe church and state separation was a conservative ideal, both pro-religious and patriotic, until the 20th century.

Then again, that changed during the same period when the party of the confederacy somehow became the left-wingers and the party that freed the slaves came to be identified as the racist white man's party. Who knows?
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:03   #109
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
"Helping the less fortunate" always ends up meaning taking money from those who have it and giving it to those who do not.
Yeah it works that way because taking it from those that don't have it doesn't work as well.

Still in favor of it. If someone is born crippled and can't work I don't think they should starve to death. Currently the requirements are far too broad, overly accessable, and full of fraud and abuse.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:07   #110
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Yeah it works that way because taking it from those that don't have it doesn't work as well.
Yep, that's the math.

Quote:
Still in favor of it.
I'm not saying I'm against it, but I think it's important that people start from an intellectually honest place.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:36   #111
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
"Helping the less fortunate" always ends up meaning taking money from those who have it and giving it to those who do not.

I'll have to disagree with this.

I "help the less fortunate" by donating some of my money with my own free will.

Would I ever in a million years tell the government to tell you what to do with YOUR money? Hell no.... But since this is my money, and when I'm feeling generous, I will "help the less fortunate".


Sadly, most people think helping the less fortunate requires to vote in a government to strong arm those who worked for what they have.

Leave it up to the individual, and civic virtue.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:52   #112
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My brother's in-laws and extended family are Socialists. They don't hide it. They are all wealthy and live on the hill in Berkeley, CA.

Many of the people I know sit in grungy dark bars and whine and piss and moan about politics (sounds like some web forums!).

My brother's family sits around after dinner and has discussions and decides where they will donate money (they put their time and money where their mouths are and give/donate A LOT.)

I rarely visit CA, but when I do, I'm always encouraged to participate in the conversation. They will respectfully listen to my opinions and debate them.

I admire them (they know I don't admire their politics) because they actually plan and DO SOMETHING to promote their beliefs and causes. They talk-the-talk AND walk-the-walk.

I don't agree with their vision for the future of our county, but I "get" that they are passionate and concerned enough to actually make a difference.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:06   #113
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As a libertarian I used to be sympathetic to most causes that are commonly considered liberal. I have only recently come to the conclusion that people who call themselves liberals aren't liberal at all, they are just selfish.

Someone wants the right to get pregnant or get a woman pregnant and abort the resulting fetus. They don't care about anyone else's rights, only about what they want. They talk about the individual, and choice and freedom but they will willingly support taking away someone else's freedom and choice.

Someone who wants to smoke pot or do heroin is only concerned with their desires and will happily see someone else's rights trampled in the dirt.

Gay marriage activists talk about justice but turn their back on others in their time of need.

Libertarians and other freedom minded people have been used for years as tools by selfish progressives with appeals to "justice" and "individual liberty". Well, it is a fraud.

Here is my new take. Screw 'em. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The friend of my enemy is my enemy. Look at who Obama is supported by; they are my enemies. Whoever opposes him and his totalatarian state socialist agenda is my friend. Even if they make me want to throw up, I will come to their aid.

There is no more time for nice distinctions of political shade. You are a friend of liberty or an enemy of liberty, there is no middle ground.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:09   #114
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Gay rights.
Drug legalization.
Pro-choice(although I think that abortion is an abhorrent practice)
Non-rabid environmental conservation efforts.
I'm sure there are more, but those are the biggies right off the top of my head.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:25   #115
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Health care. Nobody should go broke if they have a heart attack or injured. Basic care for people, IMO, goes a long way.

Also anti death penalty.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:44   #116
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I have come to the conclusion that I am a libertarian. Your freedom stops when it interferers with other peoples freedom.

i.e.
1. I could case less what you are doing in your bedroom as long as you are a consenting adults and no animals are hurt in the process.
2. Legalization of drugs is possible as long as I don't have to walk through a cloud of smoke or deal with drugged drivers (yes that means you grandma.).
3. I am not personally pro-choice, but legally I think we are safe where we are.
4. You can pollute as much as you want, but it better not pollute public ways or my property.

I have been taxed enough already. Lets cut and cut and cut the gov.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:46   #117
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What is funny is some of the biggest chest thumping freedom lovers on this site with their 'don't tread on me' and 'molon labe' signatures chimed in with "I support no liberal views". Guess their definition of 'freedom' is only what fits their agenda, if it does not then they have no problem using the same government they constantly profess their hatred of to limit another.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:48   #118
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I am for the First Amendment and the division of church and state. I would hope there would be consvatives who would also not want a state based religion.
"Separation of church and state" as understood and applied today is a FAR cry from not having a state religion. The 1st amendment protects everyone's right to worship as they choose; it does not protect you from being exposed to faith.

The limitation on the Federal Government was only that they could not have a mandated faith/church such as had been common in much of Europe. For example you had to be a member of the Church of England: you could not worship elsewhere or get married elsewhere.

The 1st Amendment does not restrict Goverment from expressing faith and religion; it only limits them from requiring that you bow down to their religion.
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:50   #119
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Well, it is pretty easy to see why we are all going to end up living in a socialist workers paradise real soon now.
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Old 03-07-2013, 16:25   #120
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Originally Posted by dizmodeus View Post
Uh......................I like pie
I like a little hair on mine.
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Old 03-07-2013, 16:26   #121
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Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
"Separation of church and state" as understood and applied today is a FAR cry from not having a state religion. The 1st amendment protects everyone's right to worship as they choose; it does not protect you from being exposed to faith.

The limitation on the Federal Government was only that they could not have a mandated faith/church such as had been common in much of Europe. For example you had to be a member of the Church of England: you could not worship elsewhere or get married elsewhere.

The 1st Amendment does not restrict Goverment from expressing faith and religion; it only limits them from requiring that you bow down to their religion.
So, you would be cool with, say a National Church of Satan as expressed by the Federal Government? Complete with the Satantic Bible and all its trappings?
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Old 03-07-2013, 16:46   #122
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The constitution prohibits the Federal Government from establishing an official church. It also prohibits that same government from stopping people practicing their religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press;

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,

and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There is not a single part of that amendment that has not already been taken away except establishing a national church. Once Obama gets deified we can write that off too.
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Old 03-07-2013, 17:14   #123
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I echo the above.....get out of the bedroom, let women make their own decisions and get religion out of politics.
^^^This.

The human being is the chief decision-maker. WE choose our representatives, WE choose which god, if any, we decide to worship. Since WE THE PEOPLE are at the top of the decision-making pyramid, WE should be making decisions for ourselves.

We can decide to not s**t in the nest (environment) and yes, humans do a bad job taking a big picture, long term view, and the Dems may have a little better handle on some of this. If the GOP picked up on this, and got out of our bedrooms, got out of our pants, and clammed up about religion like the Dems do, that would be unbeatable.

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Old 03-07-2013, 17:42   #124
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Environmental protection... To a point...
This. Plus Nixon was the initiator of the EPA. I know first hand that it did a LOT of good things for us in its early years- today, not so much. In fact I disagree with a whole bunch of things the EPA is doing today.
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Old 03-07-2013, 18:02   #125
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
So, you would be cool with, say a National Church of Satan as expressed by the Federal Government? Complete with the Satantic Bible and all its trappings?
Once again, you show an amazing ability to completely miss the point and come out of left field with an incredibly idiotic statement.

That one is almost as good as "People who love thier pets are responsible for the violence in America."

One thing for sure, you dont disappoint with the garbage that drivels from your keyboard.
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