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Old 03-08-2013, 13:01   #301
Rabbi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Nope. Did not claim you were right at all. Still trolling i see. Better to go back to ignoring you. Troll on.
Lets take a look at it.

I said, in response to you calling one person who agrees with you a trend....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi
Two is a trend in a thread with hundreds of posts that answered my question?
To which you replied

Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload
Fixed it for you trolly

Actually, it was just two examples. Would be a tad tedious to run them all down. And as noted prior, im not the only one to notice your obsequiousness to the statist left, the fawning demi god worship.
To which I replied

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi
Your rebuttal is to change my words, then claim I am right and that you are too lazy to back up your claims.



Awesome.
Yes, you did in fact change my words. You did in fact agree with me and you did infact say you would not be backing up your claims because of the amount of work involved.

Again,

Awesome.
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:06   #302
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Working in a community with a 20-25% rate of unemployment and seeing the effect that poverty has on children, I completely understand the entitlement inclination. Makes perfect sense to me.

I just don't believe in entitlements as lifestyles.
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:29   #303
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
Working in a community with a 20-25% rate of unemployment and seeing the effect that poverty has on children, I completely understand the entitlement inclination. Makes perfect sense to me.

I just don't believe in entitlements as lifestyles.

As I've gotten older, I've come to understand that "most" people do not choose to be poor or disadvantaged. Yes many do fight their way out of it, but it's a fight that many of us do not have to make, and we should judge others more lightly. Same with mental illness, the stigma attached to it, the lack of resources, is atrocious. It's a disease like cancer, but with little sympathy for its victims. But rather, when we see a homeless person, they are often told to get a "job" etc.. When in fact, many of them have previously worked harder than alot of us. They just don't have the means, or perhaps family anymore, if ever, to help them get up. And without that, their chances of recovering from their bad luck, or even mistakes are alot worse than those of us that have family to depend on in bad times.

I think in this economy, many of us have learnt that more than we'd like to admit.

Be thankful for what you have, and judge people gently.

Last edited by jim goose; 03-08-2013 at 13:34..
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:55   #304
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I "get" a lot of the bleeding heart entitlement sentiment.

The bleeding hearts want to eliminate poverty and have nobody without health coverage. I get it. This is typically where their thought process stops, however.

The problem is, we can't afford it. In addition, giving out free gifts removes the incentive to ever get what you need through hard work. Once we run out of people willing to work, there won't be anything left to divide up and hand out.

Entitlements should always be temporary, or in exchange for some type of service (like compulsory community service or military service for welfare recipients). There are plenty of people that genuinely need the help, but sadly many people try to game the system or make a lifestyle out of it. This is why our entitlements are doomed for failure.

Last edited by Fear Night; 03-08-2013 at 14:09..
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:05   #305
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That's just it - the argument for rampant entitlements and common sense never occupy the same space.
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:11   #306
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Having grown up in coastal Southern California til the age of 31, I can say without a doubt, that ALL "progressive" ideas are crap. They ALL lead to FAIL.

This includes ALL social and economic ideas...PERIOD
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:19   #307
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None at all.
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:19   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Night View Post
I "get" a lot of the bleeding heart entitlement sentiment.

The bleeding hearts want to eliminate poverty and have nobody without health coverage. I get it.
Agreed. I think we all get it -- it being the noble goal of a utopian society. We just don't agree on how to achieve the goal.

Some of us are idealists. Others are realists.
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:29   #309
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We need idealists. They just can't drive the bus.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:36   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Actually, its Episcopal, and makes a point to welcome all faiths. And, despite its name being the "Washington National Cathedral" it is not a national church nor is it federally funded. It WAS, however, declared our "National house of prayer" by Congress.

Get your **** straight before you post it.
So, Congress "Shall enact no law..." Looks like they tossed the First Amendment out. Also, have you ever heard of Red Mass? It is held at the National Cathedral for the Supreme Court annually.
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:41   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim goose View Post
As I've gotten older, I've come to understand that "most" people do not choose to be poor or disadvantaged.
If it is that important to you, you will make it happen. No if's ands or buts.

And please do not insult those people that did fight their way out as "lucky".

The only thing in your way is you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim goose View Post
Yes many do fight their way out of it, but it's a fight that many of us do not have to make, and we should judge others more lightly. Same with mental illness, the stigma attached to it, the lack of resources, is atrocious. It's a disease like cancer, but with little sympathy for its victims. But rather, when we see a homeless person, they are often told to get a "job" etc.. When in fact, many of them have previously worked harder than alot of us. They just don't have the means, or perhaps family anymore, if ever, to help them get up. And without that, their chances of recovering from their bad luck, or even mistakes are alot worse than those of us that have family to depend on in bad times.
You know there are bad times and then there is just flat out self abuse. You can not force people to take medication for it. And even then it is a fight because they think you are trying to kill them. I know because I have dealt with it for 15 years until his death.

His reality was his own, and I had no right telling him what was real or not. He was not a danger to himself or others, but his world was his, not matter how much it bothered the rest of us.

What drives me nuts is people that have no idea what it is, and it becomes some sort of pity party people get together and make themselves feel good about themselves. Because when push comes to shove, getting them out of their chair to do anything is next to impossible and then suddenly they disappear.

And what makes it worse, is these drug addicts that made the conscious choice to ruin their lives and expect us to pay for it when the bill comes due. Meanwhile they obscure the real issue which is a much smaller population of peoples that really need the help because someone supposedly fell on bad luck and decide to slam junk in their arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim goose View Post
I think in this economy, many of us have learnt that more than we'd like to admit.

Be thankful for what you have, and judge people gently.
I am thankful, because I earned it, and continue every day to fight to make it. I was there, down and out, homeless with kids, just got back from Desert Storm, with nothing to piss in. No safety net, scrambling to feed and shelter my young family as I dig my way back out.

20 years later, I here, nice home, nice Mercedes, collection of guns, sending my kids to college. Burried my grandfather (you know, the crazy one), took care of my family.

And I was not "Lucky", no one gave me a hand out.
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Old 03-08-2013, 14:47   #312
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Sorry, I can't think of a thing I agree with liberals on. There does appear to be a bunch of RINOs here though.
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Old 03-08-2013, 15:19   #313
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A few

Abortion: I do not believe in this it bothers me religiously however I don't think it is a government issue.

Gay Rights: Who freaking cares? How does it effect my life at all? What you do in your bedroom or who you would like to Marry is of no conciquence to me. Again this bothers me a bit religiously however I don't believe in judging people either.

Environmental Protection: If you are a sportsman or an outdoor enthusist of any sort this should be a no brainer. I don't believe it should be used as a political bat to whack big business but common sense environmental control is good for everyone.

That is about it. For everything else I suppose you can color me RED
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Old 03-08-2013, 15:37   #314
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A couple of notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
Two is a trend in a thread with hundreds of posts that answered my question?

...and from two people who demonstrate, over and over again, the lack of capacity to understand context. (such as calling "two" a trend because it agrees with how they feel)



Some people make it so easy.
It only takes two points to make a trend.

Try this - put a dot on a page, then another dot up and to the right, draw a line between the two. Trend UP

Do the same but put the second dot to the right and on the same plane as the first. Trend Flat

Put a dot on a page, then another dot down and to the right, draw a line between the two. Trend Down.

Another simple concept you missed, Rabbi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Fixed it for you trolly.


Actually, it was just two examples. Would be a tad tedious to run them all down. And as noted prior, im not the only one to notice your obsequiousness to the statist left, the fawning demi god worship.
G29Reload,

This is all you need to know about Rabbi.

There was a man in his life that was admired by many for his knowledge, wisdom and intellect.

Rabbi wants the admiration of people but he lacks the knowledge, wisdom and intellect. As a result his behavior disrecpects this inflential man's memory.
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Old 03-08-2013, 15:57   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I always get a laugh when someone claims they're republican and pro-small government, and then starts going on and on about how the government needs to be super big, so that it can force everybody to follow their beliefs, because somehow, they know what's best for everybody.
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:01   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
And if we just booted the government out of marriage completely we could have a government that was a wee bit smaller.

Jus sayin..........
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:02   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezthumper View Post
If it is that important to you, you will make it happen. No if's ands or buts.

And please do not insult those people that did fight their way out as "lucky".

The only thing in your way is you.



You know there are bad times and then there is just flat out self abuse. You can not force people to take medication for it. And even then it is a fight because they think you are trying to kill them. I know because I have dealt with it for 15 years until his death.

His reality was his own, and I had no right telling him what was real or not. He was not a danger to himself or others, but his world was his, not matter how much it bothered the rest of us.

What drives me nuts is people that have no idea what it is, and it becomes some sort of pity party people get together and make themselves feel good about themselves. Because when push comes to shove, getting them out of their chair to do anything is next to impossible and then suddenly they disappear.

And what makes it worse, is these drug addicts that made the conscious choice to ruin their lives and expect us to pay for it when the bill comes due. Meanwhile they obscure the real issue which is a much smaller population of peoples that really need the help because someone supposedly fell on bad luck and decide to slam junk in their arm.



I am thankful, because I earned it, and continue every day to fight to make it. I was there, down and out, homeless with kids, just got back from Desert Storm, with nothing to piss in. No safety net, scrambling to feed and shelter my young family as I dig my way back out.

20 years later, I here, nice home, nice Mercedes, collection of guns, sending my kids to college. Burried my grandfather (you know, the crazy one), took care of my family.

And I was not "Lucky", no one gave me a hand out.
Where did i say "lucky"?

You speak from experience, and for that I respect your opinion. Most people though are too quick to pass judgement, because their own opinion lacks experience (That goes for everything in this world).And thats my point, the average person jumps all over the poor, demonizes them, when they themselves have actually never really gone without anything in their lives. I used to be one of those persons, and now, I find that disgusting. Also, its hypocritical. When I add up those entitlements, I ask myself how much of a tax credit I received by deducting my mortgage interest, and I found out I get more from than that, than a poor person does on food stamps every year. And thats money a bank lent me to buy a bigger house with. I will at least not ridicule the homeless guy I see on the way to work everyday anymore.

Thanks you for your service.

Last edited by jim goose; 03-08-2013 at 16:13..
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:12   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMason View Post
A couple of notes.



It only takes two points to make a trend.

Try this - put a dot on a page, then another dot up and to the right, draw a line between the two. Trend UP

Do the same but put the second dot to the right and on the same plane as the first. Trend Flat

Put a dot on a page, then another dot down and to the right, draw a line between the two. Trend Down.

Another simple concept you missed, Rabbi.




G29Reload,

This is all you need to know about Rabbi.

There was a man in his life that was admired by many for his knowledge, wisdom and intellect.

Rabbi wants the admiration of people but he lacks the knowledge, wisdom and intellect. As a result his behavior disrecpects this inflential man's memory.
It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

You can dislike, dispise and dispute with me but you cant assume to know what I am to others. You prove over and over that you cant see past your feelings.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:12   #319
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Gay marriage, abortion, prayer in schools and other establishment clause issues, some environmental and public lands issues, ending the war on drugs, I was against the Iraq war. There might be a few others, but those are the big ones.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:16   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
Sorry, I can't think of a thing I agree with liberals on. There does appear to be a bunch of RINOs here though.
For what it is worth, again, this was not a thread about what you agree with. That was never the question (although it could be an answer) This was about understanding.

I can not agree with something, I can even be against it but that doesnt mean I dont understand it and framed in a political context might even support it.

For example, I dont agree with *satanism*. (whatever that is) I dont like it at all. I have a strong disdain for it and in general, the kind of people and culture around it. I might even be so moved to speak out against it and join with movements against it.....BUT, I dont want the government taking a stand on it. Thus, from a political POV, I support the right of someone to be a satanist.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:17   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
It doesn't take any bigger government to not issue a marriage license to two people of the same sex than it does to not issue a license to polygamists or siblings who want to marry.
The size of government isn't measured solely on budgets or number of people employed. The more restrictions a government has, the "bigger" it is.

It's impossible to come up with a pro freedom, pro equal protection, pro small government argument against gay marriage; it's government intrusion into one of the most intimate aspects of family life. That's big government no matter how you cut it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:22   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

You can dislike, dispise and dispute with me but you cant assume to know what I am to others. You prove over and over that you cant see past your feelings.
You should have asked "How do you know me so well"; instead of all the rest.

As for all the rest - you are true to your posting form - attempting to insult the poster who showed you to be wrong.

My posts have be void of the 'feelings' you note. That is because I know you. You operate on that level so you think everyone else does. And you think you have an advantage in that area and you can manipulate people on that level.

It doesn't work with everyone, my friend.

Last edited by PaulMason; 03-08-2013 at 16:23..
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:32   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMason View Post
Yo

My posts have be void of the 'feelings' you note. That is because I know you. You operate on that level so you think everyone else does. And you think you have an advantage in that area and you can manipulate people on that level.


This is also awesome, This guy says his posts are void of "feelings" yet his argument is, " because he knows me" (of course based on his feelings)

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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:35   #324
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Originally Posted by JMS View Post
How do you justify eating meat?
Genesis 9:3

And I enjoy every bite.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:37   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
No, it is not. In either phrase or deed. Modern usage comes from a brief by an Aclu lawyer in the late 40s who dropped it on the desk of an associate justice of the supreme court.

The phrase does not appear anywhere in the text of COTUS. Youre entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

There is nothing even resembling a wall in the text of the BOR. All it says is that there will be no creation of a state ordained religion, and nothing shall prohibit the free exercise of religion. Period. There is no talk of separating anything with a wall either low or high.
You have no idea what you are talkingt about.


Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent
Quote:
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802
.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

Thomas Jefferson was not an ACLU lawyer in the 40's. The First Amendment was intended to do exactly what it does, prohibit Congress from getting involved in religion, either for or against - a "wall of separation between church and state." The language of the first amendment was adapted from prior writing Jefferson had done.
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