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Old 03-03-2013, 08:41   #1
Rustin
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Who is the real enemy? DHS has it's own idea...

Perhaps this has been touched on before but it's just too shocking to let go... They spent 2 million on these targets...

"No more hesitation targets-Homeland security and police depts. request targets for shooting practice to help desensitize law enforcment to shooting average americans."

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...age-americans/

If this isn't a blatant example of what they are planning on doing with their 2 billion hollow points then I don't know what is.

http://www.amren.com/news/2013/02/dh...an-gun-owners/

Door to door confiscation?


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Old 03-03-2013, 08:56   #2
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You can carry the same weapons as your local LE. But your best weapon is still your mind. And if your mind only sees [fill in your image of BG] as the only threat out there... then good for you.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:57   #3
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Or maybe it's because people who shoot at law enforcement officers are not solid black silhouettes. Perhaps they want officers to make a decision to shoot or not to shoot based on what they see and not be range robots who automatically fire on command. Perhaps there are court cases requiring realistic training that negate the use of silhouette targets.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:01   #4
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Methinks the photos of the targets show 'normal' people with handguns POINTED at the shooting trainee. My interpretation is that an offender can look like the sweet old lady, pregnant woman etc. It is a leap to assume that the local gendarmerie and HS is being prepped to shoot the local innocent populace. The outfit that puts out this info is in the business of right-wing propaganda....what is their motive but to rev up the retarded paranoiacs.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:09   #5
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Originally Posted by Rustin View Post
Perhaps this has been touched on before but it's just too shocking to let go... They spent 2 million on these targets...

"No more hesitation targets-Homeland security and police depts. request targets for shooting practice to help desensitize law enforcment to shooting average americans."

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...age-americans/

If this isn't a blatant example of what they are planning on doing with their 2 billion hollow points then I don't know what is.

http://www.amren.com/news/2013/02/dh...an-gun-owners/

Door to door confiscation?

There is that from bizarre imaginary websites. Then there is reality:

http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/silhouette/
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:14   #6
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Here's a little test for y'all with good-guys and bad-guys. You gotta' react quick. Just follow the link and use your "L" or "A" key as needed.

http://ccsn.uchicago.edu/Studies/ShooterEffect/

But unlike the DHS Gestapo targets, I don't think that you'll have to target kids or pregnant women in the link,,,,
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:17   #7
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Here's a little test for y'all with good-guys and bad-guys. You gotta' react quick. Just follow the link and use your "L" or "A" key as needed.

http://ccsn.uchicago.edu/Studies/ShooterEffect/

But unlike the DHS Gestapo targets, I don't think that you'll have to target kids or pregnant women in the link,,,,

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:17   #8
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Having a tough time coming up with ANY news item concerning a little old lady or pregnant girl pointing a gun at a cop...

.oh, yeah, now someone will post a single VERY rare to non-existant story of a granny shooting at a cop, or a suicidal pregnant girl, doing the same...just wait for it....

lol, some ranges have decided to not sell shooters full-sized silhouette targets because they look too much like you are firing at a human....yeah, right.

Soon, we will have drones with the O'Bama stickers on the wings, patrolling the skies over law-abiding ctizens, watching all...then kicking in a few doors where you have been observed carrying a shot-gun, like Biden suggests, and then O'Bama's socialist agenda will become real....

AFTER he disarms a good portion of us.

All under the mask of sorely failed Patriot Acts, you know, to keep us safe from our children...

I am out.....buying up all the ammo I can't afford...
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:32   #9
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Someone bought some targets other than the typical black or blue silhouette. It might be another sign that western civilization is in imminent peril. Or maybe not. It is pleasing though that the fear of drones currently appears more prevelant than the fear of black helicopters.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:38   #10
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Yep...if old dad had practised with those DHS targets, he would have realized the threat, and laid down a wall of lead to take out the little bugger.

Or....dad is an idiot for not securing his sidearm.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:50   #11
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Here's a little test for y'all with good-guys and bad-guys. You gotta' react quick. Just follow the link and use your "L" or "A" key as needed.

http://ccsn.uchicago.edu/Studies/ShooterEffect/

But unlike the DHS Gestapo targets, I don't think that you'll have to target kids or pregnant women in the link,,,,
That was a fun little test. Surprising my fastest time was white armed, and my slowest was white unarmed. Black armed was 2nd, and black unarmed was 3rd. I had 100% in each category. Give it a try fellas, it was fun.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:51   #12
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Point a gun at law enforcement takes you from the innocent status very quickly.
Now, if the targets were unarmed and the officers were firing, that would concern me greatly. What you showed, meh.

Would you not shoot child pointing a gun at you? I'd order them to put it down if I had time, but only if no shots have come my way. I do not try to reason with people looking to harm me.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:22   #13
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Wow. 2 million dollars spent on these targets alone. Even the NRA called out the DOJ memo that said the only way to get the guns is through confiscation. 2 billion hollowpoint bullets, which would be enough to wage a 30 year war in Iraq based on the information that the military was firing up to 5 million rounds per month at the height of the war. This is all coinciding with the largest gun grab in American history, go figure...

Obviously anyone with a gun is a threat, and any good officer would be able to act regardless of whom they are encountering. However, to spend 2 million dollars of our tax dollars to get these targets alone is quite disturbing. Black sillouette targets aren't the only targets around. Why not shoot after traditional bad guys, you know, the ones that actually commit crime. It's not like our police are so trained that they've mastered the bad guy targets,so now it's time for practicing to shoot little jimmy or his mother, or perhaps people in their own homes after their doors have been kicked down in an unjust fashion.

Don't bother with the real criminals. Chicagoland and D.C are the model for all urban development centers. Can anyone deny that a nationwide D.C is what the leaders want, if not something more abhorrent altogether?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:29   #14
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What do criminals look like?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:33   #15
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Point a gun at law enforcement takes you from the innocent status very quickly.
Now, if the targets were unarmed and the officers were firing, that would concern me greatly. What you showed, meh.

Would you not shoot child pointing a gun at you? I'd order them to put it down if I had time, but only if no shots have come my way. I do not try to reason with people looking to harm me.
The frightening thing, is that is sometimes a reality. I was down, many years ago in some thick brush catching illegal aliens by the Rio Grande. It was also bordered the hood, ghetto, whatever you prefer. I saw a scatter of legs through the brush, and gave pursuit. Through, the glimpses of brusth and bamboo I caught the shilouette of a 1911 .45 ACP. So, I draw my pistol, and give chase. The person with the 1911 raises it up, I raise mine and put pressure on the trigger. The brush opens, and I see a kid with a friggin lifelike BB gun. I don't know who was more freaked out by the encounter, me or hiim.

The concept of shooting a kid with a realistic looking BB gun pointed at you, was not a happy thought. Dying is also not a happy thought. In a perfect world, these guys parents would need a beating for letting their kids run around in an area frequented by violent guides (coyotes) drug cartels, and the Mexican Military.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:34   #16
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What do criminals look like?
I figure they can be of many diverse and various appearances.

But I suspect that the type threats represented in the targets are a "minority" of violent criminals who endanger law enforcement....or other government agents.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:37   #17
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Wasn't it DHS that bought all these targets??

Also, wasn't it DHS who bought almost two billions rounds of HP handgun ammo?

I thought DHS was supposed to be protecting us against terrorists? IF that is the case, why didn't they buy targets that look like middle eastern jihadists with AK47's and bomb vests?

Are the terrorists recruiting 70 yr old men, pregnant women, and 9 yr olds with handguns and shotguns now?

All seems just a liiiiiittle odd, don't ya think?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:44   #18
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The only threat that exists to anyone is the gun when it is pointed at you. Why should what it is attached to, factor into your decision of what your next course of action is.

I consider a gun pointed at me as a threat. I will do only one of two things. I will retreat or attack. But I will not interpret what social implications the person with the gun represents. I fail to see why a cop should have his judgment influenced by the cuteness or frailty of the person with the gun pointed at him.

I suppose that the reason for the target pictures of ordinary people, could be necessary for the small percentage of LEO's that are very reluctant to use their weapon even to save their own lives. These few have a problem that I don't believe will be solved by "realistic" targets, but by learning what value their own lives are to them.

I believe that FOR ME the target should only have to be a gun, of any type, with the muzzle pointed at me or away from me. The rest of the picture simply clouds your perception of threat or not. I would only concentrate on where the gun was pointed and not the person wielding it.

This does not mean that my only recourse would be to shoot people sweeping me with a muzzle, but it means that who was doing it is of lesser importance, and my actions are dependent on the movement of the weapon.

I think that these targets were the brainchild of some administrative type that "thinks" that more detail is necessary to determine the level of the threat. Put him on the street and see what he looks at when he is confronted with a gun.

Yeah, I'm just a jerk off the streets, but this my my perception.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:47   #19
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Not again with the 2 billion bullets thing. If you don't understand contracting and what the words "up to" mean then stop it. The DHS has not purchased anything close to 2 billion bullets under the contract everyone keeps talking about.

Yes, the DHS does a lot of things we don't like, but don't run around inventing things to be mad at.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:49   #20
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The Department of Homeland Security is solely tasked with operations against Middle Eastern terrorists, right? The agency has no law enforcement operations concerning any other areas, apparently according to some.

The lack of knowledge and the jumping to conclusions is scary.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:50   #21
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Quote:
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That was a fun little test. Surprising my fastest time was white armed, and my slowest was white unarmed. Black armed was 2nd, and black unarmed was 3rd. I had 100% in each category. Give it a try fellas, it was fun.
I did the test, it was a good lesson in "watch their hands" after a while, I didn't see color, just what was in the hands.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:52   #22
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The only threat that exists to anyone is the gun when it is pointed at you. Why should what it is attached to, factor into your decision of what your next course of action is.

I consider a gun pointed at me as a threat. I will do only one of two things. I will retreat or attack. But I will not interpret what social implications the person with the gun represents. I fail to see why a cop should have his judgment influenced by the cuteness or frailty of the person with the gun pointed at him.

I suppose that the reason for the target pictures of ordinary people, could be necessary for the small percentage of LEO's that are very reluctant to use their weapon even to save their own lives. These few have a problem that I don't believe will be solved by "realistic" targets, but by learning what value their own lives are to them.

I believe that FOR ME the target should only have to be a gun, of any type, with the muzzle pointed at me or away from me. The rest of the picture simply clouds your perception of threat or not. I would only concentrate on where the gun was pointed and not the person wielding it.

This does not mean that my only recourse would be to shoot people sweeping me with a muzzle, but it means that who was doing it is of lesser importance, and my actions are dependent on the movement of the weapon.

I think that these targets were the brainchild of some administrative type that "thinks" that more detail is necessary to determine the level of the threat. Put him on the street and see what he looks at when he is confronted with a gun.

Yeah, I'm just a jerk off the streets, but this my my perception.
Ironically, on most targets and shooting simulations, the firearm gets hit, because it is the percieved threat.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:55   #23
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Ironically, on most targets and shooting simulations, the firearm gets hit, because it is the percieved threat.

Interesting. Not "my" center of mass, but interesting nonetheless.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:58   #24
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The Department of Homeland Security is solely tasked with operations against Middle Eastern terrorists, right? The agency has no law enforcement operations concerning any other areas, apparently according to some.

The lack of knowledge and the jumping to conclusions is scary.
From their mission statement:

The Department's mission is to ensure a homeland that is safe, secure, and resilient against terrorism and other hazards.

Not many 70 yr olds, pregnant women, or 9 yr old kids engaging in terrorist acts against the homeland, and making the country "unsafe" as far as I can tell.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:04   #25
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Not again with the 2 billion bullets thing. If you don't understand contracting and what the words "up to" mean then stop it. The DHS has not purchased anything close to 2 billion bullets under the contract everyone keeps talking about.

Yes, the DHS does a lot of things we don't like, but don't run around inventing things to be mad at.
Not mad...

just curious. This is from an article on investors business daily.

In a puzzling, unexplained development, the Obama administration has been buying and storing vast amounts of ammunition in recent months, with the Department of Homeland Security just placing another order for an additional 21.6 million rounds.

Several other agencies of the federal government also began buying large quantities of bullets last year. The Social Security Administration, for instance, not normally considered on the frontlines of anything but dealing with seniors, explained that its purchase of millions of rounds was for special agents' required quarterly weapons qualifications. They must be pretty poor shots.

But DHS has been silent about its need for numerous orders of bullets in the multiple millions. Indeed, Examiner writer Ryan Keller points out Janet Napolitano's agency illegally redacted information from some ammunition solicitation forms following media inquiries.

According to one estimate, just since last spring DHS has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm. That's sufficient firepower to shoot every American about five times. Including illegal immigrants.

To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, DHS is armed now for a 24-year Iraq war.

The perceived need for so much ammunition in federal custody is especially strange given Obama's double-barreled emphasis in his inaugural address on the approaching end in Afghanistan "of a decade of war." And he also noted, "We, the people, still believe that enduring security and lasting peace do not require perpetual war."

The lack of a credible official explanation for such awesome ammunition acquisitions is feeding all sorts of conspiracy theories, mainly centered on federal anticipation of some kind of domestic insurrection. Napolitano has at times alluded to threats from the extreme right-wing.

Other conspiracists harken back to an Obama Colorado campaign speech in July, 2008. That day he deviated from his prepared text to say:

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Writing at American Thinker, Lee Cary noted at the time that the speech context seemed to involve expanded opportunities for community service. But as still happens when Obama goes off-teleprompter, his non-fortuitous word choice on the fly such as "national security force" prompted numerous writers to speculate since about some kind of national Obama para-military force.

And as great as Obama's unlikely, newly-revealed passion for skeet-shooting might be, that involves shotguns, not handguns over-heated from blasting off millions of rounds.

Additionally, Napolitano, a former governor of Arizona, is widely expected to seek the 2016 Democrat presidential nomination. But you wouldn't think she'd need that much ammo for such a bid.


This is not to mention that I don't believe that most L.E. Agencies train with hollow point ammo, do they?
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