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Old 03-16-2013, 14:46   #121
cowboy1964
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I used to hunt CA jackrabbits with my G17. The 9mm JHPs would put them down in a hurry.
Wow, really?? I would hope so if that is your carry piece.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 03-16-2013 at 14:46..
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Old 03-16-2013, 15:22   #122
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The 9x19 +p+ 115gr JHPs do 1400FPS out of my G17.
I think you have said this 4 times in this thread. I have a 4.5" Glock 357 sig that throws a factory 125gr GD bullet over 1,550 fps everytime. That's 10 more grains and over 150 fps more velocity. I can almost do the same thing with handloads. I would not advise you to try and get 1,400fps in a 9mm 115gr bullet with handloads.

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Old 03-16-2013, 17:43   #123
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Well who makes this 9mm of yours?
Steyr S9-A1. You better pick one up while they're still available at a decent price and thank me later for the advice.
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Old 03-16-2013, 18:52   #124
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Go for it, brother.
After I leave a thread, I count on email to notify me that someone else has posted on the thread. Many threads I do not care about, but some like this one I do. When you post over 20 posts on a thread and the content is no more than stated above, I must go back to GT or it will not send me an email on new substantive comments. Please understand that making occasional short agreement comments is just fine. However, if you do it too much people may lose track of the thread, or waste time going back to GT to stay informed.
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Old 03-16-2013, 18:57   #125
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Steyr S9-A1. You better pick one up while they're still available at a decent price and thank me later for the advice.
Do you know if anyone makes a .357sig barrel for the .40 version?
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Old 03-16-2013, 20:35   #126
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Do you know if anyone makes a .357sig barrel for the .40 version?
I don't know for sure but you might ask over at Steyr Club.

I do know the owners of the M40-A1 and M357-A1 pistols love their pistols.
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Old 03-17-2013, 20:39   #127
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I'm having a hard time swallowing some of the rationale used in defending the .357 SIG. The 9mm +P+ is breathing hard but the .357 SIG isn't breathing hard at the same pressure level. An interesting observation. 40,000 p.s.i. is 40,000 p.s.i. regardless of caliber. Is the brass in the .357 SIG thicker than in the 9mm? I don't know. It has already been observed and testified to that the chamber walls are thicker in the 9mm. If trying to contain pressure would you prefer super strong brass and strong chamber walls or strong brass and super strong chamber walls. I will personally go for the super strong chamber walls. The strongest brass out there won't contain the pressure if the chamber walls which support it fail.

Now that that issue has been covered there is the issue of flatter shooting at long range. For those of us who are citizens and not LEOs, you'll have a hard time defending the concept that a long range shooting was self defense. A man much smarter than me once said, "a hand gun is to be used to get yourself to your long gun." A handgun is a short range self defense weapon at best. My AR would be a far better choice at distance. Why do you suppose so many departments are buying into the Patrol Rifle concept?

If there is a true advantage to the .357 SIG then it would come from greater case capacity. If the proper powder was chosen to be optimized to the barrel length of the gun maybe there would be some small advantage. By optimized I mean the burn rate would be chosen to produce the the greatest amount of energy within the chosen barrel length without exceeding the pressure limit. This means that the ammunition companies would have to optimize their ammo to barrel length. Fat chance of that.

In the 26 & 33 considering their short barrel length the difference in energy produced would be minimal at best. Dead is dead and overkill is overkill. At practical and justifiable self defense ranges the out come between the two calibers inside 10 yards really would be hard to predict. In a real shooting the metabolism of the victim and other factors would create a much harder to predict outcome than these two caliber choices.

This is like trying to predict which is better for deer hunting, a .270., 7mm-08, .308, 30-06, 7 mag or whatever to kill a deer. Any of these calibers is more than adequate. It's truly a matter of personal choice. While choosing you better consider the little thing called overpenetration. We are after all responsible for any and all damage that bullet does after it leaves the muzzle.
You seem to be arguing with the factual data that has been presented to you in full here. If you do not want to use the 357 sig don't.....

The 9mm with proper loads and bullet configurations is a fantastic round. But if you are trying to say it is the same as the 357 sig you are wrong and its printed over and over above. Also if you want to compare apples to apples there is no factory loading for the 9mm that is close enough to compare to a properly loaded 357 sig.
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Old 03-17-2013, 21:06   #128
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As a sports shooter, there is not away to separate a cartridge and the pistol. If considered together, pistol and cartridge, the Sig 229 Sports and the 357 Sig rate way up list for me. If the 357 sig reloaded as easy as a straight walled case it would rate higher

The trajectory is useful for a sports shooter
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Old 03-17-2013, 21:43   #129
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You seem to be arguing with the factual data that has been presented to you in full here. If you do not want to use the 357 sig don't.....

The 9mm with proper loads and bullet configurations is a fantastic round. But if you are trying to say it is the same as the 357 sig you are wrong and its printed over and over above. Also if you want to compare apples to apples there is no factory loading for the 9mm that is close enough to compare to a properly loaded 357 sig.
I agree with you. One thing you will find out here (if you haven't already) is that 9mm shooters are the most defensive of their 9mm round.
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Old 03-17-2013, 21:45   #130
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I don't know for sure but you might ask over at Steyr Club.

I do know the owners of the M40-A1 and M357-A1 pistols love their pistols.
Oh they made/make a .357sig Steyr. No need for a conversion barrel then. I only ever saw 9mm and .40 models.
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Old 03-17-2013, 23:45   #131
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I agree with you. One thing you will find out here (if you haven't already) is that 9mm shooters are the most defensive of their 9mm round.
How true! We get a thread thrashing the 357 sig every month or two with the same old arguements in that it is not that different than a 9mm +p+. I think it is a little like ***** envy, they are intimidated by a bottle neck cartridge.

Before you decide to trash the 357 sig like this OP did, keep in mine that a lot of people hop on the area, but never post. Your uninformed remarks may turn a shooter off from trying the 357 sig.

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Old 03-18-2013, 05:30   #132
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Oh they made/make a .357sig Steyr. No need for a conversion barrel then. I only ever saw 9mm and .40 models.
Good luck with getting one from Steyr! It is extremely difficult to get a complete pistol in 357SIG, so the chance of them producing spare barrels is very low. There is an Austrian company whose name I no longer remember that produces special barrels for Steyrs, but the prices are very high and importing on into the USA would be difficult.

By the way, these are really nice shooting pistols which control recoil, or felt recoil, better than Glocks.

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Last edited by English; 03-18-2013 at 05:32.. Reason: added last para
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:18   #133
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Pretty much guaranteed it will go this way with 9 vs 357 sig or the best gun oil vs grease or the best tires or whatever some people want to argue about. It fills some time on a cold wet day..
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:16   #134
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Before you decide to trash the 357 sig like this OP did, keep in mind that a lot of people hop on the area, but never post. Your uninformed remarks may turn a shooter off from trying the 357 sig.
Very good point Jim. I love the 9mm and feel it has a strong position in defensive handgun calibers and will do just fine so please do not take it as bashing the caliber but it is no more a .357sig than a .40 S&W.

I am not a reloader but it seems to me that the OP also misquoted date on the pressures of the NATO round. The NATO round is effectively a +p round and at 124gr round runs between 1200-1250fps if I recall correctly and is below 42,000 psi (which the op quoted it as being).

The properly loaded .357 sig is a 125gr bullet around 1400fps and loaded by some companies to full potential it runs closer to 1500fps. It is not the same in any stretch of the imagination.

As mentioned physics dictate that its better shot for shot. Again you donít have to use it but no need to spew uninformed thoughts that might sway people to data that is more opinion than fact.
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Old 03-18-2013, 17:29   #135
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Very good point Jim. I love the 9mm and feel it has a strong position in defensive handgun calibers and will do just fine so please do not take it as bashing the caliber but it is no more a .357sig than a .40 S&W.

I am not a reloader but it seems to me that the OP also misquoted date on the pressures of the NATO round. The NATO round is effectively a +p round and at 124gr round runs between 1200-1250fps if I recall correctly and is below 42,000 psi (which the op quoted it as being).

The properly loaded .357 sig is a 125gr bullet around 1400fps and loaded by some companies to full potential it runs closer to 1500fps. It is not the same in any stretch of the imagination.

As mentioned physics dictate that its better shot for shot. Again you donít have to use it but no need to spew uninformed thoughts that might sway people to data that is more opinion than fact.
If the NATO 9mm round is a +p cartridge, why not just say so?
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Old 03-18-2013, 17:57   #136
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If the NATO 9mm round is a +p cartridge, why not just say so?
If you really want to know, the NATO round is tested by different protocol then SAAMI which uses the +p designation. I understand that in reality, the NATO round has pressure very close to +p, but it cannot be called that. I find it difficult to believe that Winchester would just give it a NATO designation if it actually were 42,000PSI. Most people here cannot tell you what a NATO round is, and search Google and you will find that is universal. I believe Winchester (just an example) would fear weaker gun might explode.
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Old 03-18-2013, 18:05   #137
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If you really want to know, the NATO round is tested by different protocol then SAAMI which uses the +p designation. I understand that in reality, the NATO round has pressure very close to +p, but it cannot be called that. I find it difficult to believe that Winchester would just give it a NATO designation if it actually were 42,000PSI. Most people here cannot tell you what a NATO round is, and search Google and you will find that is universal. I believe Winchester (just an example) would fear weaker gun might explode.
You know your ammo well . . . . .
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Old 03-18-2013, 18:55   #138
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After I leave a thread, I count on email to notify me that someone else has posted on the thread. Many threads I do not care about, but some like this one I do. When you post over 20 posts on a thread and the content is no more than stated above, I must go back to GT or it will not send me an email on new substantive comments. Please understand that making occasional short agreement comments is just fine. However, if you do it too much people may lose track of the thread, or waste time going back to GT to stay informed.

Nahh!! SC needs to get his post count up to 15,000 before year end

Seriously, I am not bothered by SCīs style.
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Old 03-18-2013, 19:56   #139
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it is in the eye of the beholder, the difference is marginal at best between 9 +p+ and 357 sig. What you like and can shoot effectively should make you happy. I've put several hundred rounds of +p+ through G19 and G26 without adverse effects on either gun. The 357 Sig amounts to a 9mm bullet on a .40 cal necked downed cartridge. Anyhow it is the first hit that counts. But, I am just an ignorant nobody anyway.
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Old 03-18-2013, 20:02   #140
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When I asked the original question, I had no idea I was attacking the "Holy Grail". Now I will ask another. Since ya'll defend the cartridge with such great vigor, how many of you have a G33 for everyday carry? How many of you view this as an ideal cartridge in this barrel length? Doesn't it simply amount to wasted powder, excess muzzle blast, with very little gain over the 9mm in this short a barrel?
I apologize for not reading the thread completely before taking a stab at this question so I may be repeating what might have been said here already.

I should first say that I don't carry or even own a .357 at the moment. It would, however, be my second choice to my preferred cartridge. The "little bit of gain" ( I see it as more than a little) over the 9mm is still a reason I would choose the sig. The sig has a great track record thus far so that gain must be worth something. You first shot is the most important. You can not count on the first shot but the same holds true for any cartridge. So, for that first shot I would rather have as much "gain" as possible. Fortunately for all of us, we do not have to pay for wasted powder, excess muzzle blast, or recoil in advance. The "little gain" is free on the first round you send down range.

Also, in regards to another of your posts...if you are not using fmj, over penetration is a moot issue with the sig. Not really any different than any other service caliber.
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