[glock031]

The 357sig rd is much more popular now then it was 4 yrs ago when i purchased a G31. Back then the 45gap guys were predicting the death of the 357sig rd. Looks like almost the opposite happened.

Myself i'd rather have the flat shooting and barrier penetrating capabilites that this rd offers.

[PghJim]

I really think it is not more popular for two reasons. First, most people do not even know it exists. I am always questioned at the range as to what I am shooting and I have not had a person yet that knew anything about the 357 sig when I showed them. When they first go to the gun store to buy a gun, the caliber is never brought up as an option. Second, things like this thread may turn off people who might have tried it because it is always wrongly criticized as being no better than a hot 9mm as Dave has tried to do here, or say something else equally wrong. Once you get out of Caliber Corner, I'll bet 40 - 70% of the people know nothing or very little about the round.

[unit1069]

Originally Posted by PghJim

I really think it is not more popular for two reasons. First, most people do not even know it exists. I am always questioned at the range as to what I am shooting and I have not had a person yet that knew anything about the 357 sig when I showed them. When they first go to the gun store to buy a gun, the caliber is never brought up as an option. Second, things like this thread may turn off people who might have tried it because it is always wrongly criticized as being no better than a hot 9mm as Dave has tried to do here, or say something else equally wrong. Once you get out of Caliber Corner, I'll bet 40 - 70% of the people know nothing or very little about the round.

I hope Glock remembers to mail me a referral gratuity for having introduced a father/son to .357sig a couple of years ago at a remote state conservation shooting range.

They asked what I was shooting and I told them, then offered to let them shoot my G-32 which the son accepted. He could hit the target better than I could on his very first test and returned exclaiming, "Wow". The father said he'd seen a Glock .357sig at a local gun shop and was going to stop there the next day with his son to look at it again. I'm sure they were impressed with the power and accuracy of the G-32 and I know I was equally impressed with the first-time shooting ability of the son. His father had said his son was an excellent shot and that certainly proved true from my eyewitness observation.

[English]

Originally Posted by Dave Nowlin

dbarn, I am in complete agreement with you. My research however leads me to believe that the 9mm Glock was designed to handle that type of pressure. Study the barrels and you will discover that the walls surrounding the chamber in a 9mm Glock are thicker than those for the .357 SIG. The external dimesions are the same but the .357 SIG is a necked down .40 S&W. This leads to thinner walls in the chamber area. The barrel area is identical. Same external dimension and same bore. Am I missing something here that logic doesn't reveal?

The important thing is to keep the propellant burning progressively. If its temperature gets to high it detonates. That is, rather than burning from the outer surface where burn is proportional to surface area (burning is not a correct term here because it does not need external oxygen) it burns through its particle or rod almost instantaneously. That produces a massive over pressure and the barrel bursts. This effect is a function of the volume of combustion. The smaller the volume the higher the pressure and the higher the temperature according to the gas laws.

Clearly this danger is greatest when the bullet is still close to the cartridge case as the volume is smallest then. By using a bigger volume cartridge case a bigger charge can be used and still stay within the pressure limit. But, by using the larger charge, the pressure when the bullet is further down the barrel is higher and so the bullet is pushed harder over the length of the barrel even though the initial pressure is the same. Hence the 357SIG and 9x23mm Winchester can go faster than the 9mm ever could. This is not a matter of the space for enough propellant but space for the initial combustion to be controlled with heavier charges.

The thinner walls of the chamber of the 357 SIG are not very important here because detonating combustion will still burst thicker walls.

English

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by English

The important thing is to keep the propellant burning progressively. If its temperature gets to high it detonates. That is, rather than burning from the outer surface where burn is proportional to surface area (burning is not a correct term here because it does not need external oxygen) it burns through its particle or rod almost instantaneously. That produces a massive over pressure and the barrel bursts. This effect is a function of the volume of combustion. The smaller the volume the higher the pressure and the higher the temperature according to the gas laws.

Clearly this danger is greatest when the bullet is still close to the cartridge case as the volume is smallest then. By using a bigger volume cartridge case a bigger charge can be used and still stay within the pressure limit. But, by using the larger charge, the pressure when the bullet is further down the barrel is higher and so the bullet is pushed harder over the length of the barrel even though the initial pressure is the same. Hence the 357SIG and 9x23mm Winchester can go faster than the 9mm ever could. This is not a matter of the space for enough propellant but space for the initial combustion to be controlled with heavier charges.

The thinner walls of the chamber of the 357 SIG are not very important here because detonating combustion will still burst thicker walls.

English

You seem to be an experienced reloader.

[English]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

You seem to e an experienced reloader.

I do reload but I would not call myself an experienced reloader. Compared to many on GT I am a novice. Th above was just basic principles of the way in which propellants burn. The hotter they get the faster they burn. The rest is just gas laws from basic physics. But thanks for the appreciation anyway!

English

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by English

I do reload but I would not call myself an experienced reloader. Compared to many on GT I am a novice. Th above was just basic principles of the way in which propellants burn. The hotter they get the faster they burn. The rest is just gas laws from basic physics. But thanks for the appreciation anyway!

English

I have been reloading since 1978!

[PghJim]

Originally Posted by English

The important thing is to keep the propellant burning progressively. If its temperature gets to high it detonates. That is, rather than burning from the outer surface where burn is proportional to surface area (burning is not a correct term here because it does not need external oxygen) it burns through its particle or rod almost instantaneously. That produces a massive over pressure and the barrel bursts. This effect is a function of the volume of combustion. The smaller the volume the higher the pressure and the higher the temperature according to the gas laws.

Clearly this danger is greatest when the bullet is still close to the cartridge case as the volume is smallest then. By using a bigger volume cartridge case a bigger charge can be used and still stay within the pressure limit. But, by using the larger charge, the pressure when the bullet is further down the barrel is higher and so the bullet is pushed harder over the length of the barrel even though the initial pressure is the same. Hence the 357SIG and 9x23mm Winchester can go faster than the 9mm ever could. This is not a matter of the space for enough propellant but space for the initial combustion to be controlled with heavier charges.

The thinner walls of the chamber of the 357 SIG are not very important here because detonating combustion will still burst thicker walls.

English

English, it is great to see you on the board again. I was out of commission for a few months due to a knee replacement. Thank you for the analysis above; I think you did a better job of explaining it than I did. I could have used you on another thread as I was being chased by a Dr. Roberts disciple.

[Beware Owner]

Simply put, the .357 Sig is everything the 9mm wants to be when it grows up. Period.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Beware Owner

Simply put, the .357 Sig is everything the 9mm wants to be when it grows up. Period.

So I have been carrying a juvenile caliber since 1989? My G17 has been ready and able.

[2c5s]

Originally Posted by copo9560

Even more impressive is Underwood's 9x25 loads - 125 grain at 1700 fps. Unfortunately these won't fit in your SIGs.

They fit my G20! LOL!!

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Dave Nowlin

The Glock pistol was designed to handle the 9mm NATO round from day one. The pressure spec for the 9mm NATO goes as high as 42,00 p.s.i. When shooting that kind of 9mm loading, what advantage does the .357 SIG really offer if any?

It offers a lot more speed, and a bit more feeding reliability.

[Rev.357]

When people see what the .357sig can do first hand it changes them. I gave a CWP class to 11 people Sat. & used my G32 for range demo. Everyone had to know more about this awesome round. It does what it was designed to do & always do it better than the 9mm in all ways! If people can't handle that don't grip!

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Rev.357

When people see what the .357sig can do first hand it changes them. I gave a CWP class to 11 people Sat. & used my G32 for range demo. Everyone had to know more about this awesome round. It does what it was designed to do & always do it better than the 9mm in all ways! If people can't handle that don't grip!

Well, I can't see changing from my G17 for three less rounds in my magazine and a hundred feet per second more MV. I'll stick with my 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ @ 1400 FPS.

[Beware Owner]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

So I have been carrying a juvenile caliber since 1989? My G17 has been ready and able.

Ok, ok, young adult.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Beware Owner

Ok, ok, young adult.

[The Gemini]

It never ceases to amaze me how often people try to demonize the .357 Sig. I have never seen a more polarizing round. It's either "the .357 Sig doesn't do anything the 9mm can do" or "the .357 Sig shot through 3 ft of cement and took out a bad guy a mile away!" People seem to be either crazy about this round or they are on a mission to wipe it from the face of the earth.

What is it about this round that causes people to want to "pick" on it for? It is by far my favorite round - I carry it on duty, and own more handguns in this caliber than any other. It just blows me away how people continually attack it as the answer to a question no one asked. You never see threads on why someone would choose a .40 S&W over a .45 ACP, or that 9mm +P ammunition is "too expensive". But when the discussion starts mentioning .357 Sig, people come out of the woodwork to bad mouth it. Very, very strange...


II

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

[Colorado4Wheel]

Pressure is not the same as velocity. The Sig has greater case capacity for slower burning powders. It has more potential for speed then the low case capacity 9mm. The 44Mag only generates 36,000 PSI. It's about the ability of the powder capacity to push a bullet. SIG is capably of pushing a 147 gr bullet to pretty good velocity as well because it has a larger case.

[Tiro Fijo]

.357 SIG is like .357 Magnum in that most love them until they have to shoot one w/o ear protection.

IMO, the .357 SIG is a specialist round for those who can shoot it well and for those that handload. Same goes for the 10mm. Few, if any, can afford enough factory ammo to become proficient with them.


If you don't handload then stick with a 9mm. Just my 2 cents.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Pressure is not the same as velocity. The Sig has greater case capacity for slower burning powders. It has more potential for speed then the low case capacity 9mm. The 44Mag only generates 36,000 PSI. It's about the ability of the powder capacity to push a bullet. SIG is capably of pushing a 147 gr bullet to pretty good velocity as well because it has a larger case.

So true. The .357 Sig has a lot of case capacity.

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by The Gemini

It never ceases to amaze me how often people try to demonize the .357 Sig. I have never seen a more polarizing round. It's either "the .357 Sig doesn't do anything the 9mm can do" or "the .357 Sig shot through 3 ft of cement and took out a bad guy a mile away!" People seem to be either crazy about this round or they are on a mission to wipe it from the face of the earth.

What is it about this round that causes people to want to "pick" on it for? It is by far my favorite round - I carry it on duty, and own more handguns in this caliber than any other. It just blows me away how people continually attack it as the answer to a question no one asked. You never see threads on why someone would choose a .40 S&W over a .45 ACP, or that 9mm +P ammunition is "too expensive". But when the discussion starts mentioning .357 Sig, people come out of the woodwork to bad mouth it. Very, very strange...


II

I totally agree. I absolutely love the round. But I base my decision on carrying it at work for about 15 years with numerous shootings. The facts are the facts in REAL LIFE. And it simply works. No need to hear others negative talk about it who have not seen themselves what it really does or does not do.
The secret service stated that it is the best handgun round they have ever tested and carry it with confidence.

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

.357 SIG is like .357 Magnum in that most love them until they have to shoot one w/o ear protection.

IMO, the .357 SIG is a specialist round for those who can shoot it well and for those that handload. Same goes for the 10mm. Few, if any, can afford enough factory ammo to become proficient with them.


If you don't handload then stick with a 9mm. Just my 2 cents.

Ive had to shoot mine a few times at work without hearing protection outside. My hearing is fine. And if involved in a shooting, you will barely hear the sound with the adrenaline and so much going on at once.

[barth]

Originally Posted by dpadams6

Ive had to shoot mine a few times at work without hearing protection outside. My hearing is fine. And if involved in a shooting, you will barely hear the sound with the adrenaline and so much going on at once.

+1
I had the misfortune of having to fire a 40 S&W in a small closed room with no hearing protection.
With an adrenalin dump it almost sounded suppressed.
My ears didn't ring at all.
No Problemo

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by barth

+1
I had the misfortune of having to fire a 40 S&W in a small closed room with no hearing protection.
With an adrenalin dump it almost sounded suppressed.
My ears didn't ring at all.
No Problemo

Ouch! Was it an SD shooting, or an AD?