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Old 03-01-2013, 13:25   #201
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Originally Posted by Esco View Post
I just think if my firearm, knife, etc. as a tool. I'm not gonna go and list off all of the tools in the back of my truck just the same as I find it a waste with listing off the firearms I have in the truck or car.

I am always courteous and expect people to do the same in all circumstances of their lives. I am only speaking of what occurred according to the OP's original story. What that officer chose to do I truly believe was completely out of line.
I dont care what you think of it as. It is a firearm. I will think of it as such. You are not going to get any traction trying to plant your flag on the hill that it is the same thing as a socket wrench.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:36   #202
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Here is the thing, I know (as an LEO) what I can and cant do. I play by those rules, that is what makes me the good guy. It doesnt matter if you like it, or even know or agree if I am playing by the rules or not.

Most people are not very happy when I get involved with their lives. Some people are livid and a few would like to see me have to watch my children die. I get that that and in many cases I not only understand it but make efforts to mitigate it...but just because you feel that strongly about it, doesnt mean you are right.
I can understand this. I just hope that to you following "the rules" and the law doesn't make you a good guy, just law abiding. I'd hope you wouldn't act like an a hole to someone the same way that the OPs police encounter did. Aside from that, as long as its within common sense means, then the authority you place over the individual for that moment in time is just fine and understandable. I just don't like the idea of mistreatment, abuse, and life threatening chest thumps that people have to go through.

There are Anna unbelievable amount of great police officers. I just don't like the ones that abuse their authority. I understand this is just my opinion.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:57   #203
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I dont care what you think of it as. It is a firearm. I will think of it as such. You are not going to get any traction trying to plant your flag on the hill that it is the same thing as a socket wrench.
It could beat grenade or a nuke. It it's legal to own and have in your car,home, or wherever you are, you should have no legal basis to point a gun at my head. That is just plain ridiculous for you to believe that, and even more ridiculous for you to think that as a servant of the community, you are a "good guy" for doing such things.
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:05   #204
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You can think of your gun as fairy dust, doesn't make it so.
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:09   #205
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You can think of your gun as fairy dust, doesn't make it so.
Who ever said I was making it fairy dust, a drill, a hamster, or whatever you want to use the next time around? Seems you are using what I'm saying and creating that into fairy dust....What I said to begin with is that a firearm is a tool and it is legal. Nothing more p and nothing less. So why, in terms of what occurred in the OP's story, did a police officer have any right to point a gun to a law abiding citizen, that may I add was being courteous? How is it logical? How does it make you a "good guy"?
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:20   #206
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Originally Posted by Esco View Post
It's just a dam tool. WTH is wrong with LEOs that think they can threaten someone's life like that, that has not shown any aggression or sketchy behavior? I could kill you with my fists if I feel like it. Yah it's easier with a gun or with a wrench too. My God...too big of a deal.

I would be so pissed with a LEO over this and would do everything in my power to legally damage that officer, be it through legal court action or his agency, or even a news station. That is just ridiculous.

Things would be different if the law states I need to inform. If not, then you don't need to know. If you find out because my shirt hiked up or something similar in fashion, then that too bad. Stop being such v a g * i n a -s ( you get blocked from writing a body part? WTH is up with that?) over firearms that aren't causing a threat, just like with any other tool that isn't threatening you in anyway....such as a bat.


- Apologies if this is too harsh. Just having a rough day.
Esco, I know Rabbi touch on this a little. It has a lot to do with proximity, and potential to harm. To put it in another perspective, having a bag of golf clubs, baseball bat, or wrench inside the passenger compartment is unlikely to be dangerous, but stepping outside the vehicle with one, would change that. A handgun has the ability to be lethal from inside the vehicle.

To me, it has nothing to do with being a kitty, but has everything to do with balancing survival, and maintaining respect with the public.

If you work with tools, think of it like disconnecting the battery in a car, or shutting the water. You do it to prevent getting hurt, and having a mess. It could be a big deal, or not. BTW, Ohio requires informing.
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:32   #207
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Esco, I know Rabbi touch on this a little. It has a lot to do with proximity, and potential to harm. To put it in another perspective, having a bag of golf clubs, baseball bat, or wrench inside the passenger compartment is unlikely to be dangerous, but stepping outside the vehicle with one, would change that. A handgun has the ability to be lethal from inside the vehicle.

To me, it has nothing to do with being a kitty, but has everything to do with balancing survival, and maintaining respect with the public.

If you work with tools, think of it like disconnecting the battery in a car, or shutting the water. You do it to prevent getting hurt, and having a mess. It could be a big deal, or not. BTW, Ohio requires informing.
Thank you so much for responding rather than trying to make a point. That's what I have been trying to do this whole time is discuss about it and not write in anger about this.

Where I am coming from is the stand of why was there so much fear in the OP's story's police officer. Why point a gun at the individual? That is what I want to know. I understand calling for backup just in case and even unholstering. But pointing your gun at someone's he'd is serious. What if fear provokes an accidental trigger pull. What a waste of life. I feel that he escalated the situation way out of proportion. The guy he stopped, if the story is as I read, was not acting as a threat. That is where I am coming from.
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:40   #208
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Originally Posted by Esco View Post
It's just a dam tool. WTH is wrong with LEOs that think they can threaten someone's life like that, that has not shown any aggression or sketchy behavior? I could kill you with my fists if I feel like it. Yah it's easier with a gun or with a wrench too. My God...too big of a deal.

I would be so pissed with a LEO over this and would do everything in my power to legally damage that officer, be it through legal court action or his agency, or even a news station. That is just ridiculous.

Things would be different if the law states I need to inform. If not, then you don't need to know. If you find out because my shirt hiked up or something similar in fashion, then that too bad. Stop being such v a g * i n a -s ( you get blocked from writing a body part? WTH is up with that?) over firearms that aren't causing a threat, just like with any other tool that isn't threatening you in anyway....such as a bat.


- Apologies if this is too harsh. Just having a rough day.
You really need to realize that laws are different in different states, so the response from LEOs here from different states are going to be different.

Like I have pointed out more than once... In Texas, a CHL is required by law to inform. If I come across someone who is armed and they haven't told me they are (a) a cop, or (b) a CHL, then they are illegally carrying a gun... And quite likely intending me harm.

Thus, the whole "gun screwed in the ear bit".

It ain't rocket science. Take a pill.


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Old 03-01-2013, 14:42   #209
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
It is always wise for the citizen to assume that the Cop is a JBT until their attitude proves otherwise.

The OP's FM is a JBT and doesn't know the laws of the State he works in. He should not be a LEO. One day his piss poor attitude will get him killed and many people will not shed any tears over his death. FTW!
Seriously?


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Old 03-01-2013, 14:51   #210
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I can see potential problems with both duty to inform and no duty to inform.

In the no duty to inform states, if all goes well, the officer is never aware of the gun. However, should he become aware of it, he has no idea of its owner's intentions.

In the duty to inform states, there is not the potential for the officer to be surprised by catching a glimpse of the gun. However, the matter of informing the officer can become an issue. Many cops are already on high alert during the course of a traffic stop, especially in the first few moments. An irritated and less than tactful motorist saying to the cop "I've got a gun" has the potential to make the situation get hairy in a hurry.

Seems to me that in duty to inform states there should be a standard phrase so the officer isn't forced to try to quickly decipher the intent of "hey, I've got a gun."
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