GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2013, 22:21   #126
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by billn View Post
What would you do in that situation as a civilian?

Don't stop, keep driving. The safest place you can be in is a moving vehicle, honestly.

I've finally got my girlfriend to understand this. She now leaves a gap whereever she goes. Be it at a stoplight, Dunkin Donuts drive through, whatever. She now has room to pull away and drive off if the need arises.
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 02-27-2013, 22:21   #127
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,873


Quote:
Originally Posted by billn View Post
I though he might have a medical emergency and need to get past me. I did not realize he was full of road rage.
Yes, fine, and when he started to also pull over....drive off.

When strange guy gets out of car headed for you, and you are stil in a car....drive off.

Keep driving, dial 911, drive to a public place, drive to a police station, just get away.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
Rabbi is online now  
Old 02-27-2013, 22:49   #128
Steve in PA
Senior Member
 
Steve in PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikerret View Post
I call that: a clue.
A clue as to what? It's a truthful answer, he has nothing illegal in the vehicle. May not be the answer you want or like, but so what? The driver is under no obligation to answer if there are any weapons in the vehicle. I'm talking about a non-duty to inform state. It has nothing to do with the basis for the stop.
__________________
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps. Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945"
Steve in PA is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:49   #129
eccho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Fly View Post
Preface: I suspect this may end up being a controversial thread. I post this because I am curious what all of you in CT (that are LE) think about my question. I'm not here to bash or start a "all cops are JBT's" type thread. Nor will I criticize any LE responses to this thread.

Background facts:
I have a family member who is LE in my state. Just to be 100% clear, CCW is shall issue in my state, and you're not legally required to inform LE during a stop. I am not LE myself, but I do have a ccw permit, and know a LOT of people who ccw themselves.

Anyways, during a phone call tonight, my family member (referred to as the FM from here on out) was talking about he dislikes shall issue ccw ("They hand them out like candy here"), and related a story of pulling over a driver for a minor traffic offense (no other reason for the stop other then the traffice violation).

Prior to the stop, running the plates shows nothing of interest. The driver was polite and compliant when contacted, and when requested for his car registration and insurance, reached over to his glover box to get the documents. When the driver reached over, his shirt hiked up a bit, revealing a handgun holstered on the left side hip area.

The FM at this point draws his firearm, points it at the head of the driver, and orders the driver out of the car and detains him.


My first question is this: Given the same situation, what would you do?


My second question related to this. Given the same situation, but lets say the driver informs you promptly during the stop that he's armed and has a permit. He keeps his hands on the steering wheel at all times. Under what circumstances do you feel it would be appropriate to pull the driver out of the car, and handcuff him?

You know, that would really really suck, but that's why I would tell an officer. I think he might have over reacted a little bit, but his first sign of the guy being armed wasn't "hey I have a permit" it was actually seeing his gun.

I was told in my CCW class if you don't tell an officer, that's likely to happen.
eccho is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:54   #130
eccho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
I typically let them go with a warning. No frisking or handcuffing involved.

Does that make me a good guy?




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Yes, and in response to the other post, I don't think that makes you a bad guy at all. Does it suck for that guy? Yup.

But I feel like if you pull me over and I don't promptly tell you, I'm an idiot.
eccho is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:38   #131
kingdong
Senior Member
 
kingdong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by eccho View Post
Yes, and in response to the other post, I don't think that makes you a bad guy at all. Does it suck for that guy? Yup.

But I feel like if you pull me over and I don't promptly tell you, I'm an idiot.
+1
Simplest most common sense post in here. Thank you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
|[(OO[_______R/T_]OO) ]|
kingdong is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:58   #132
merlynusn
Senior Member
 
merlynusn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 3,265
I'm in a duty to notify state as well. And actually, for a CCWer who does not inform as required, the first offense is an infraction (can't arrest).

If I saw a firearm in a holster on the hip, my first action wouldn't be "screwing a gun in his ear." It would be "Put your hands on the wheel and don't move!" Then I'd ask what is up with the firearm. LEOs are exempt from the CCW statute which means they are also exempt from the duty to notify (though nearly all do). You can take control without pointing your gun at someone.
merlynusn is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 10:46   #133
nikerret
Mr. Awesome
 
nikerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 6,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
.. with the officer asking; "Are there any weapons in the vehicle?" Some drivers will say; "I have nothing illegal in the vehicle."
I call that: a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
A clue as to what? It's a truthful answer, he has nothing illegal in the vehicle. May not be the answer you want or like, but so what? The driver is under no obligation to answer if there are any weapons in the vehicle. I'm talking about a non-duty to inform state. It has nothing to do with the basis for the stop.
A clue there is a weapon or weapons in the vehicle. It is unlikely a truthful answer. Fact is, when I hear a response that is a diversion from my question and the person is claiming there is nothing illegal in the vehicle, there is usually something in the vehicle (or on their person) and the question I asked was the right question.

I am in a State where, if asked, you must declare. Therefore, it does matter.
__________________
-Ambition is only appreciated after success.
-3/325:Now, where's my dedicated bodyguard? Oh, yeah, he's staring back at me in the mirror.
-"Every fear hides a wish"
nikerret is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 13:18   #134
KevinFACE
Senior Member
 
KevinFACE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
+1
Simplest most common sense post in here. Thank you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
So pull over and piss your leg in submission. Got it.

This is what's wrong with police with that attitude.
KevinFACE is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 15:38   #135
tampashooters
Shellback
 
tampashooters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,210
Well, I am not a criminal, so I have no duty to inform him, unless he asks.
__________________
Member: NRA & GSSF
Glock Certified Armorer

Support our Troops
tampashooters is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 15:51   #136
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampashooters View Post
Well, I am not a criminal, so I have no duty to inform him, unless he asks.
Everyone I've arrested wasn't a criminal in their mind.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 15:52   #137
FiremanMike
Way too busy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFACE View Post
So pull over and piss your leg in submission. Got it.

This is what's wrong with police with that attitude.
Submission? What's wrong with just common courtesy? "Hey officer, just wanted to let you know I'm legally carrying a firearm.."

This is what's wrong with CCWers with that attitude, they just love to try and jam cops up and make their job more difficult. I think some of them truly hope to get a cop fired at some point in their life. They'd love to see them getting food stamps and staying at the mission, jobless and broke.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamer
They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
FiremanMike is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:25   #138
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
Submission? What's wrong with just common courtesy? "Hey officer, just wanted to let you know I'm legally carrying a firearm.."

This is what's wrong with CCWers with that attitude, they just love to try and jam cops up and make their job more difficult. I think some of them truly hope to get a cop fired at some point in their life. They'd love to see them getting food stamps and staying at the mission, jobless and broke.
Like any of those cop block videos on YouTube. They just make me absolutely sick.

Some people take their mommy and daddy issues into adulthood.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:27   #139
KevinFACE
Senior Member
 
KevinFACE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 962
Your mindset and how power hungry you are is what is wrong with all of it.

Surely you understand that MOST people AREN'T criminals. Yet you treat the common citizen, which admittedly you have less contact with, AS a common criminal.

That is what is so absurd about the gun (people) control laws, they empower the wrong people and make the rest of us sheep.

The 2nd amendment wasn't created to GIVE us these rights, it was created to KEEP YOU FROM TAKING IT.
KevinFACE is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:38   #140
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 29,873


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFACE View Post
Surely you understand that MOST people AREN'T criminals. .
I dont have a clue who I am dealing with, until I have dealt with them.

I dont know who is the child molester.
I dont know who is the rapist.
I dont know who is the road rager
I dont know who is the thief
I dont know who is going to try to kill me
I dont know who is going to try to kill you

...until I know. You saying so does not qualify....and lets be real clear on something, if we meet on the side of the road because I pulled you over, the only thing I do know is while looking everywhere to prevent or solve a crime, to help or save someone. To serve the community, to make a difference....I saw you, do what you did.

That is not a power trip. That is not a heavy hand. That is simply what it is.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 02-28-2013 at 16:44..
Rabbi is online now  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:42   #141
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFACE View Post
Your mindset and how power hungry you are is what is wrong with all of it.

Surely you understand that MOST people AREN'T criminals. Yet you treat the common citizen, which admittedly you have less contact with, AS a common criminal.

That is what is so absurd about the gun (people) control laws, they empower the wrong people and make the rest of us sheep.

The 2nd amendment wasn't created to GIVE us these rights, it was created to KEEP YOU FROM TAKING IT.
Wow. I really don't know what else to say.....
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:47   #142
FiremanMike
Way too busy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFACE View Post
Your mindset and how power hungry you are is what is wrong with all of it.

Surely you understand that MOST people AREN'T criminals. Yet you treat the common citizen, which admittedly you have less contact with, AS a common criminal.

That is what is so absurd about the gun (people) control laws, they empower the wrong people and make the rest of us sheep.

The 2nd amendment wasn't created to GIVE us these rights, it was created to KEEP YOU FROM TAKING IT.
Wanting drivers to indicate they are legally carrying a firearm is indicative of power hungry behavior? Really?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamer
They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
FiremanMike is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 16:52   #143
TJ Superfly
Senior Member
 
TJ Superfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 186
Both hands on the steering wheel. "Officer I have a conceal & carry permit and I am carrying" That's all there is to it.
TJ Superfly is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:14   #144
clancy
Senior Member
 
clancy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Why would you; as an assumably reasonable person, not file a complaint over this?

What date/location did this occur? I'm thinking an NYS trooper or two has seen this.
I didn't file a complaint because I felt fortunate to have gotten out of the situation on one piece. And the last thing I need is a trooper with a vendetta against me.

As far as date and location, check my previous posts. Your interrogation is now over.
clancy is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:26   #145
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
I'm in IL. The few times I've dealt with police on "professional business", they've asked me if I had any weapons on me or in my car.

Why on EARTH would they ask that? I mean, it's illegal for me to carry or have them loaded and accessible in the car. There's no reason for them to ask, they should just KNOW they're not there, right?

I've never been stopped on the way to or from the range. But if I was, the first thing I'd do is tell them what I had in the trunk. Surprises seem like a REALLY bad idea when dealing with something in a stressful situation. And, having witnessed stops on ride-alongs, it's stressful enough wondering what's going to happen. I can't imagine doing it over and over again, day after day.


A few months ago, I had a car accident. I had an Airsoft Glock replica in the car with no orange on it (was used as a film prop). With everything else going on, I forgot about it until they were towing my car. I immediately went to one of the responding officers and told him it was in the floor (it slid out at the impact) and wanted to let him know in case the tow driver or someone saw it, just because I didn't want anyone freaking out.

Was I being 'too cautious' or 'too submissive' by telling them?
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:36   #146
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy View Post
I didn't file a complaint because I felt fortunate to have gotten out of the situation on one piece. And the last thing I need is a trooper with a vendetta against me.

As far as date and location, check my previous posts. Your interrogation is now over.


That's all I need to know.
Ohio Copper is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:44   #147
clancy
Senior Member
 
clancy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
That's all I need to know.
clancy is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:53   #148
kingdong
Senior Member
 
kingdong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Wow. I really don't know what else to say.....
Me neither. Kinda speaks for itself.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
|[(OO[_______R/T_]OO) ]|
kingdong is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 17:59   #149
kingdong
Senior Member
 
kingdong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
Submission? What's wrong with just common courtesy? "Hey officer, just wanted to let you know I'm legally carrying a firearm.."

This is what's wrong with CCWers with that attitude, they just love to try and jam cops up and make their job more difficult. I think some of them truly hope to get a cop fired at some point in their life. They'd love to see them getting food stamps and staying at the mission, jobless and broke.
Most of those people are truly ignorant about applying the law (not to mention delusional) and fail miserably at getting anyone fired. They may get applause in online venues but rarely have their intended effect.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
|[(OO[_______R/T_]OO) ]|

Last edited by kingdong; 02-28-2013 at 18:00..
kingdong is offline  
Old 02-28-2013, 18:05   #150
oldgraywolf
NRA, SAF
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: N.W. Lower Michigan
Posts: 3,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
And, having witnessed stops on ride-alongs, it's stressful enough wondering what's going to happen. I can't imagine doing it over and over again, day after day.
NAC.

What the haters can't understand is the simple probability of doing stops day after day, week after week, month after month, etc. is that one of those times the cop will come upon a seriously bad actor with capability and desire to do him great harm.
__________________
Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment.

definatally
rediculas
theirs'

Last edited by oldgraywolf; 02-28-2013 at 18:07..
oldgraywolf is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,106
353 Members
753 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42