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Old 02-24-2013, 23:58   #21
jame
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Sometimes, I need a carpenters hammer. It does nearly all things well.

But sometimes, I need the BFH. The three pounder. I occasionally need to hit something hard enough that the outcome cannot be questioned.
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Old 02-25-2013, 00:04   #22
Happypuppy
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The shotguns advantage is versatility. Swap the 18.5" barrel slug / buckshot barrel for a 28 mod. Choke one and shoot birds. If the goal is home defense they work well if you have only one firearm.

Personally I prefer a handgun for inside use due to maneuverability and difficulty getting disarmed. Outside I would chose a carbine, greater accuracy.
The shotgun can do a good job at both with few limitations

Last edited by Happypuppy; 02-25-2013 at 01:44..
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Old 02-25-2013, 00:40   #23
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A shotgun is most absolutely NOT obsolete. It doesn't need to be a Mossberg 590A1, either. A side by side Coach gun works just fine.

I've seen a lot of shotgun use overseas. The military still believes in the shotgun. I do too. I keep several at home.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:44   #24
huntall50
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Not obsolete. In my house I use my pistol to cover until I get to my shotgun. If the fight is not over by then, it will be soon! Outside and around cover i choose my pistol and .308 rifle.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:00   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
Seriously? Ok...


There is no one gun that is perfect for everything. A 12g shotgun - in it's envelope of effectiveness - is THE number ONE manstopper period.

Say what you want; Take an AR and a 12g and shoot 100 BG's with each. The 12g will STOP significantly more, and more permanently. The AR fanboys will tell you how an AR can do anything from killing a squirrel for food at 1000 yards to stopping a vehicle at 30ft. Whatever. .223 moving at high velocity is as likely to pass clean through a target (particularly up close) as it to tumble, ricochet blah blah blah...

As for 30 rounds - how often are you going to miss??? And what is the cost of a miss in the home or in the neighborhood?

A rifle is not an ideal weapon indoors period IMO. Not saying it can't work, or won't work. But small cal high vel .223 rounds are not my first choice for target within 30ft, that might shoot back.

A Shotgun has an AWFUL lot going for it indoors. And in SHTF, the flexibility of the ammo for hunting small to large game from 0 to 100 yards, on land or on the windy, is unbeatable.

As mentioned - the AR has it's benefits like moving from a down the hall to a down the street shot.
and I love my AR, and would use it for HD, but I keep my 18.5" 6+1 870 12ga, loaded with 00Buck, with a 6rd side saddle on it, next to the bed for anything that goes "bump" in the night.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:23   #26
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"Tactical". "Tactical"???

Anything can be used "tactically". From Grand-Pa's old Superposed (or Purdy!), to an 870, to Mossberg, to a butcher knife, to whatever.

I hate that _ _ _ _ed term "tactical" almost as much as I hate that _ _ _ _ed term, "shottie"!!!!
("Shottie!" Sounds like junior high school jargon for, "I gotta make my shotgun sound 'so cool', dude!" -or- "I'm frum da hood, an' gotta sound like it, mahn.") Give me a freakin' break. Sheesh.

No, my beloved 870s don't have 20 or 30 round magazines, nor do they have a laser or flashlight hanging off of them.
(And none of them shoot that darned 'Rooskie' round, the 7.62x39!)

Heck, not one of my 870s have a sidesaddle attached to them!!!!

Two of them have extended magazine tubes (+2), and one of them is stuffed full of 00B, for taking care of what may intrude our home, at whatever time - day or night.

At close range. . . . where these shotguns are intended to be used, there isn't anything as devastating. Well, maybe a hand grenade, but, I don't particularly care to use one inside my house. Ha!
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Last edited by byf43; 02-25-2013 at 05:26..
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:42   #27
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Mine would still be my primary house defense weapon. furthest at any point in my house I shoot is around 25' im thinking a Remington 870 will throw a good pattern of buck(OO) or #4 buck) at that range from memory. If I were out in the "woods" out side town I may go with the AK74 but not where I live.

maybe im nuts or im not looking at this right or just plain wrong. But the way I see this is. At 25' or less when I pull the trigger and as long as I do my part and actually hit what im aiming at...ive put as much lead/holes into a target as a M4 would in 3 quick 3 round bursts(9 holes/9 pellets) in one pull of the trigger in my Shotgun. Now I realize I dont have the CAPACITY with my shotgun as a 30 round mag or even a 15 round mag..but I can combat reload pretty decently and being in town hope to get everyone to a bedroom area till the cavalry arrives. and at that point if its really going badly the "safe room" has all the other stuff I use for HD in it also so then its all available.

Last edited by CBennett; 02-25-2013 at 10:03..
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:05   #28
Bren
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Originally Posted by Seriously? View Post
Ok for certain applications, but mostly obsolete.


1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:15   #29
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Is the tactical shotgun obsolete?
No. Another valuable tool one should have available for the proper application of force, near or far with the proper respective loads.

YMMV
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:17   #30
fnfalman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post


1. Carbines have been around longer than "tactical" shotguns, so why would they just now become superior?

2. The distance from which people will try to kill you hasn't changed.

3. You guys read too many BS gun magazines and listen to too many mall ninjas on youtube.
Don't you know that these hard mofos are always going up against bad guys who dressed up like Rainbow Six operators?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:23   #31
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Don't you know that these hard mofos are always going up against bad guys who dressed up like Rainbow Six operators?
Come clean my monitor!
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:47   #32
KalashniKEV
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Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:03   #33
cfr
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Yes tactical shotguns are obsolete, so are AR's, because Joe Biden says a double barrel will do just fine.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:22   #34
burttrans
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Not obsolete! HD you cannot beat a good tactical shotgun mine is a Mossberg 590A1 I can get 8 in tube one in chamber and 4 in speedfeed stock. What more could you want or need plus all the flexibility of the various shotgun shells you can buy from 00 buck to bird shot #8 to slugs. I also have a AR for the times when range may be greater.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:54   #35
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
Only by landlubbers. The fleet loves them some shotguns.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:29   #36
WarEagle32
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I keep my DD M4 under my bed, and my Mossberg 590 next to my bed..... Haha, is that wrong?

Last edited by WarEagle32; 02-25-2013 at 12:31..
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:35   #37
slumpmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
Interesting. For the eleven years I have had an 870 issued, I have yet to see breaching in a qual course. Same with less-lethals. We have gone through a lot of 00 and slugs, though. Breaching rams work fine.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:40   #38
countrygun
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Shotguns in professional application are only used for breaching and non-lethal roles.
You are kidding, right?

Police officers aren't "Professional" right?

My best friend who carried an FN 12ga, among other shotguns, during a full career in Special Forces (Having retired just a couple of years go) wasn't a "professional" by your standards either I guess
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:46   #39
AK_Stick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boats View Post
Only by landlubbers. The fleet loves them some shotguns.


When was the last time the fleet actually fired at a badguy that didn't involve a cruise missile or 5 inch deck gun?




Shotguns are great for a few limited roles.

Breaching, LL employment, and jobs that require possibly dealing with animals. (Rural LE, survival etc)


Aside from those scenario's though, the SG, is second to the rifle. Even a small caliber rifle, is orders of magnitude more effective than the SG as a weapon.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:49   #40
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You are kidding, right?

Police officers aren't "Professional" right?

My best friend who carried an FN 12ga, among other shotguns, during a full career in Special Forces (Having retired just a couple of years go) wasn't a "professional" by your standards either I guess


A.) Probably more than just a "couple" years ago.

B.)If it wasn't, he probably didn't use it for much other than breaching. Thats pretty much what the .mil uses shotguns for. IIRC, we have a SGM here who works at the Army shotgun training school.
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