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Old 02-23-2013, 00:56   #1
jdeere_man
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My dealer cut me off!

Today I went to pick up some transfers from the guy I deal with. To be exact there were 7 guns waiting for me. Might seem excessive to some, but they were all inexpensive guns imported from foreign lands (by another importer moons ago) and I like to save on shipping. Six of them came from one company (SOG) and the other one a smaller operation.

In any regard I walk in the door of his shop, which is actually another business all together (not a gun shop per se, but it is his premises address on his FFL), and the first thing he says is i'm done with transfers (or I'm not doing any more transfers, I don't remember verbatim, but you get the gist). I didn't really say much, but he proceeded to tell me these were just too much work and too complicated and weren't worth it. (again not verbatim, but the general concept of what he said). He said he had to do a lot of research to figure out the manufacturers for the paperwork. He might have had to do some research I don't doubt that, but I can't figure it was too hard. I could have given him the information he spent time looking for had he only asked. Heck most of them were from Radom in Poland, FEG in Hungary, or places like that. He also had to fill out the extra ATF form for multiple sales (which he didn't complain about or mention), but when you are charging per gun on the transfer and filling out only a single 4473, I don't really see the 3310 as being an additional burden because you are being compensated for each gun in the transfer, yet still only filling out two forms. (again I'm not saying I have problem with the per gun fee) I didn't really say much or get argumentative about it and filled out the paperwork and he did the call in. He was real casual and friendly about everything as usual. Today he randomly charged me $20/gun, whereas in the past it has been $15. It was $10 when I started with him. I'm not complaining about the price. I have no issue with increased rates as I know everything goes up in price. It was just sort of the way it happened today on this one (and final) transfer that caught me off guard I guess. So today he made what I thought was a fairly easy $140, but I guess he didn't see it that way.

I've always gotten along well with him (I thought) and nothing ever really went bad, I guess he just doesn't want to mess with it any more? It's not that I'm taking away from his sales because he doesn't carry inventory (that I know of) and has never tried to sell me anything directly. He operates out of a different type of business all together. To me if he thought it was too much work he could just increase rates to compensate for additional time/labor, but instead I'm just cut off. In most cases I had been sending out his FFL to the people I was buying from myself (with his permission), so that was one less thing he had to do himself.

I have to wonder if he thought I was "flipping" guns or something? He didn't say anything to that effect or give me any reason to think that, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out why besides "it's not worth it" which just doesn't add up to me. Of the seven guns I picked up today, none were duplicates. They were all military or police side arms of foreign nations. Typical transfers he does for me involves one to three guns. I have bought a lot of guns in my short lifetime, but in looking at my records I've only sold 25% of the guns I've ever bought. I have retained 75% of them in my collection. Anything I sold was sold because I lost interest, found a better specimen, ended up with a duplicate, or just didn't end up liking it if it was a non-collectible/defense gun. Most of the guns I've sold I have had at least a couple years prior to sale. An exception would be the rare gun I get that I just can't warm up to and move on.

Now I have to find another FFL, which isn't the end of the world. There is another one nearby that charges $30, which to most people is still probably cheap, but I like $15 or $20 more. I once had a guy (moved away) that would do 3 or 4 guns on one transfer for his single fee of $10. Sometimes I'd pay him extra because I know there was work involved.

What's your take on it?
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Last edited by jdeere_man; 02-23-2013 at 01:38.. Reason: addiing additional paragraph for the benefit of Goldendog Redux
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:00   #2
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People are strange.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:07   #3
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I don't understand your problem. Find another person and go on your way. He has a right to do as he wishes.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:12   #4
jdeere_man
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I don't understand your problem. Find another person and go on your way. He has a right to do as he wishes.
I'm just wondering if there is something I overlooked or someone else had such an experience. Sometimes you do something or something happens, but your too close to the situation to see or realize it. Maybe I missed something?

He does have the right to do as he wishes, it's his business. It just involves one less customer now. I'm not necessarily complaining about him, just trying to figure out what sparked it. Maybe I'm looking to hard and the answer is just what he told me "it's not worth it".
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:32   #5
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Given the lack of paragraphs, I chose not to read the whole post. What I got was the dealer got tired of being your middle man especially if you have never actually bought a gun from him.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:35   #6
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Originally Posted by Goldendog Redux View Post
Given the lack of paragraphs, I chose not to read the whole post. What I got was the dealer got tired of being your middle man especially if you have never actually bought a gun from him.
Actually I used 5 paragraphs. I did what people do, group common thoughts together in each. Admittedly they might be longer than your attention span, but there was no other way to fully explain it.

Had you read it you would have noted he doesn't sell guns.

ETA, notice I broke one up, so there is 6 now for your benefit.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:57   #7
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Originally Posted by jdeere_man View Post
Actually I used 5 paragraphs. I did what people do, group common thoughts together in each. Admittedly they are long, but there was no other way to fully explain it.

Had you read it you would have noted he doesn't sell guns.

ETA, notice I broke one up, so there is 6 now for your benefit.
Dunno, still under 7 and that seems to be the breaking point.

Maybe you should edit again and do some research on the text there to see where another one should be made.

If you find yourself jumping into edit, but coming away from it feeling like it just wasn't worth the effort to comb through the text, determine a logical point of breaking it down further, and then fixing the inevitable grammatical problems this will lead to...

...then maybe you are closer to understanding the problem at hand?
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:29   #8
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If he doesn't sell guns and doesn't do transfers then why the FFL? I'm a little ignorant on FFL law. Does he need the FFL if he has full auto stuff in a trust for his own use?
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:33   #9
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Find another dealer that wants your money.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayno View Post
I don't understand your problem. Find another person and go on your way. He has a right to do as he wishes.
I agree but the guy was probably wanting to avoid scrutiny and the wrath of the ATF. When people purchase that number of firearms at one time the ATF radar goes berzerk and even if the prices were low trouble for all involved could come. He is right about transfers and hassle when that many at one time are involved.

Don't be too hard on the ffl when he was looking out for his own 6 as well as the purchasers.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:58   #11
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It is possible

  1. He was having a really bad/day week
  2. You don't actually do any other business with the guy, or little business
  3. The aforementioned ATF scrutiny (my FFL went thru it
  4. He is getting slammed like every other gun dealer in the nation, and is feeling a bit harried.


Early last year I rolled into my auto shop unannounced with four cups of coffee, 1/2 dozen bagels, cream cheese and a dozen donuts (Dunkin Donuts). The total nut was about $30, but it has literally bought me hundreds of dollars of unintended goodwill. I was out with my sons getting them some stuff, the shop is down the road, and I figured they might appreciate a mid morning snack.


The point is, relationships have to be cultivated and maintained. Otherwise it's just business, nothing personal.


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Old 02-23-2013, 03:38   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeere_man View Post
It just involves one less customer now. I'm not necessarily complaining about him, just trying to figure out what sparked it. Maybe I'm looking to hard and the answer is just what he told me "it's not worth it".
It probably isn't worth it for him if he was doing it for $15-$20 and others are charging $30. Especially if he doesn't sell guns.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:05   #13
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He's probably the kinda guy who does it as a hobby mainly to hook himself and friends up. You're making it too much like a job for him.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:14   #14
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Ever thought about getting a C&R license? Might be worth it.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:31   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeere_man View Post
....but when you are charging per gun on the transfer and filling out only a single 4473, ...

FYI - there is one more piece of paperwork he has to do.
His bound book - and that is where he needed the info.
Not a big deal, All FFLs do it.

Based on what ou said, it sounds like he has an FFL to be able to get his own pieces.
Maybe having to do 7 was a strain.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:38   #16
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By him doing 7 transfers, you might have hit his tilt button. Go back in a few days and have a reasonable discussion with him. Make it work for both of you. We're also not hearing his side of the story. Besides the overload is there anything else that might have sent him into orbit?
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:32   #17
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If he doesn't sell guns and doesn't do transfers then why the FFL? I'm a little ignorant on FFL law. Does he need the FFL if he has full auto stuff in a trust for his own use?
Having a basic FFL has nothing to do with having NFA stuff.


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Old 02-23-2013, 05:54   #18
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Maybe he decided that the time it took to do a transfer or ten would be better spent doing something else (whatever his business is) that makes him more money per minute. You know, sales, marketing, production, etc.

A big gun store here has a sign on the front counter that says they do transfers on Tue. and Thur. mornings. And you don't want to know the price; it's very high. Otoh, they sold over 18,000 firearms in 2011 and the employees have plenty to do every day.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:55   #19
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Stories like this are exactly why I am against mandatory background checks. It would leave us scrambling around lookind for FFLs to do transfers, tacking on what amounts to a tax on every sale.

BTW. My neighbor is an FFL and only charges $2.

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:01   #20
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Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
I agree but the guy was probably wanting to avoid scrutiny and the wrath of the ATF. When people purchase that number of firearms at one time the ATF radar goes berzerk and even if the prices were low trouble for all involved could come. He is right about transfers and hassle when that many at one time are involved.

Don't be too hard on the ffl when he was looking out for his own 6 as well as the purchasers.
EXACTLY!!

Not only that, 20$ is a BARGAIN here... Most dealers get $40 or 50!!! I have a pretty good friend and I pay him $20 per!!

Just find another dealer and move on.

CW
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:22   #21
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This is just another case of typical FFLs being weird...why do most have to be so difficult. $20X7=$140...why is he complaining about that? The guy I deal with would put your picture on the way as customer of the month...it's essentially free money. One day, I swear I'm going to open a gun shop and be the exact opposite that all other FFLs seem to be and we will see how that works out.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:43   #22
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This is starting to look like facebook..

Ohh the drama, the time to discuss this was when you were with him.

You should have come to an understanding of the problem at that time and sought any possible solutions. Since that was not accomplished you can either let it bother you, get over it or go back and do what you should have done and get to the root of the problem.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:43   #23
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and there is the multiple handgun transfer form that goes to the BATFE and the local sheriff's office (at least in Alabama)
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:51   #24
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Did you hound him for a quick turn-around time?
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:53   #25
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My dealer advertises transfers on a sign in front of the building. Up until this crisis his business was a mix of inventory and consignment sales and transfers. Since new guns and ammo are almost impossible to obtain, consignments and transfers are about it.


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